Proteus Software

[cncmachineguy]

@Dave, I would love to see pics of your mill! Also, mill size, speed and feed. Have you tried cutting any solder mask's? I saw someone doing that on you tube with some .005 brass I think. Seems like I remember them holding it down with 3M or some other spray glue.

@Ioannis, That is a GREAT link! I think I have read the entire site, and I must say, it looks like a wonderful technique. Still unsure on solder mask and the via's sound a bit cumbersome. but for prototyping, sounds like fun.

@Darrel, Thanks for jumping in and carrying the flag for VSM! Without the advanced sim stuff, are you able to watch outputs like on a scope? So being able to compare timing between signals and such?

[Darrel Taylor]

Without the advanced sim stuff, are you able to watch outputs like on a scope? So being able to compare timing between signals and such?

Oh yeah, lots of test equipment.

4-ch. O-Scope (DSO)
32-ch. Logic analyzer
Frequency counter/timer
I2C debugger
SPI debugger
Voltmeter
Ammeter
Pattern Generator
Signal Generator
Virtual Terminal

And you can have multiples of each one. Try putting 4 O-scopes on your workbench.
More test equipment than I could ever afford in real life.

RS232 ports connect to real COM ports.
Sound devices use the PC speakers.
Virtual ATA hard drives.
Stepper Motors
Servo Motors
LCDs
GLCDs
Switches, keypads
LED's, LED matrix
RTC's, EEPROM's, 7400 TTL series, 4000 CMOS series chips.
And if you're old enough ... Thermionic Valves (Tubes)

You can run multiple PIC's, each with a different program, at the same time.

It's just Waaaaay Toooo Coool!

[cncmachineguy]

And if you're old enough ... Thermionic Valves (Tubes)

I'm old enough to know these are the glowing orange things that used to make the TV have to "warm up" before watching!

Darrel Thanks for helping with this decision. I am sure I am going to pull the trigger for this. My "bench space" is low, So this is a great idea!!

[tenaja]

I'm with Daryl on the sim... I've been using the vsm for several years, and love it. The advanced stuff is more for calculating noise in audio ckts and such. Using Isis has cut down on development time a lot, and I can't imagine what Mr. E is complaining about. Their models are very accurate--sometimes MORE accurate than the hardware. (i.e. designed with no batch-specific errata.)

I used Eagle prior to switching to Ares. I switched because I figured it'd be nice to have just one cad package, and Eagle had a few things that really irked me. Well, Eagle fixed those things right when I bought Ares, and I'd have stayed with it had I known more.

When you sim a PIC, you typically don't sim the full ckt--you put in primitives, and stuff like that so it will sim at full speed. Full analog slows it down a LOT, so you end up with two schematics (or one that's a lot bigger and messier, with some excluded from sim and some excluded from pcb) doing it this way. As far as layout goes, Ares isn't quite up to the power of Eagle. They both have annoying quirks, but Eagle is a bit more powerful...although Ares is slowly catching up, and it is nice having just one forum to read. Oh, yeah... Eagle has a LOT more part libraries, too, but they are significantly easier to make in Ares, and a lot easier to edit too.

So, now that I have it, I'm not about to go back to Eagle...but had I known then what I know now I'd have stuck with Eagle. I like its precision and power, but it's harder to learn.

That's my 2c.

[mackrackit]

My mill is a Fireball V90. I replaced the stock bed with 1/2 inch aluminum plate milled flat to match the gantry. I run between 15 and 30 inch per minute depending on the part. Using a 30 degree point I can do 44 pin TQFP parts on half ounce copper.

I do not have any pictures with me.

[Acetronics2]

Hi, Bert

Just my two cents about sims ...

I sometimes use Proteus ... sometimes Multisim 11 ... tried VBB 4.2.x

Works quite fine - not perfect - for all digital work ( Processor simulating ! ), but ALL are really awful when you try to mix analog signals and digital ones ( same with 7400 or 4000 logic for digital ! ).
I can give you numerous files to prove it !!!! ... : Discrete boards work fine for years, sims never could run it, even badly.

Do not talk about close loop circuits nor ...

Also add sims do not take too much into account the config settings of the processors.
So, a sim running project NEVER is a guaranteed " live " running project.

I'd make an exception for Microchip MPSIM ... I consider it a real good tool to simulate PICs ... but not able to take into account any external components ...
Fine to adjust tricky timings, i.e.

Another exception for Flowcode ... ( Ok, it's not BASIC ! ) - limited, but " not so bad "

and the last one for Cypress Psoc Express ( looks to be obsolete and left aside now ...) - that's not Basic nor Pics !!! -

so, I'd say ...

" + 100 with Steve ... " ...


For a PCB design suite ... I Use ULTIMATE V 5.72 ... the glorious ancestor of NI Multisim/Ultiboard.

I think the very best design suite ever sold, even if there are some little bugs from here to there ( once known ... and avoided, everything fine ).

but no more sold : last release was sent in ...1999 !!!

I paid my " Student unlimited " version ... 300 US $ !!!

Alain

[mister_e]

^^ this!

An ideal sim/pcb package, say All-in-one electronic software would have the ability to do the schematic entry, Sim it, then produce the PCB and THIS.. regardless of it's complexity. I think you can do most of it with Proteus package, but the sim ability is way to limited and yeah, if you mix some analogue works in, unless you have a 19,238 core CPU machine, it works sadly when it doesn't crash.

MPSIM, MultiSim, Proteus, Mindi, LTSpice name it, all of them do some decent work, None are perfect, some have better potential, but none satisfy my need or expectation. I understand why using it, it is appealing, "it's sexy on screen", it may save many prototyping hour, can even make your plane/taxi/bus trip shorter. The idea is good, it just need few more years again I guess. In meantime, real parts and a Serial/USB terminal (or LCD), ICD do the job.

[rsocor01]

Bert,

I'm with Steve and Alain on this one. Many years ago I used PSpice a lot when I was in school. I still use it sometimes but only when I need to know the ins and outs of any circuit. It is a lot easier to run a sim to find out some values in the circuit than to calculate currents, voltages, etc. Analog and digital circuits don't mix well in this simulator. So, I prefer the "breadboard simulator". I have many breadboards laying around in my office, so when I want to test a circuit I think it is more reliable to do it this way.

My mill is a Fireball V90. I replaced the stock bed with 1/2 inch aluminum plate milled flat to match the gantry. I run between 15 and 30 inch per minute depending on the part. Using a 30 degree point I can do 44 pin TQFP parts on half ounce copper.

Dave,

I found this cool video about a Fireball V90 demo. How do you trasfer the gerber files to this machine ? Using V-tabs you might be able to make many boards in the same run. It would be cool to see a video of your machine creating PCB boards .

[mackrackit]

Here is a short vid

The finished board can be seen here.
http://www.picbasic.co.uk/forum/cont...USB-SD-LOGGING

I use KiCad for schematics and board layout. I save the board as a DXF so I can bring it into a CAD (Design CAD) to add stuff like mounts or to nest parts together. Then CamBam is used to to make the G code. EMC2 runs the machine.

I am still pretty new to CNC stuff so I have some fine tuning to do, but it seems to work well.