Proteus Software

[cncmachineguy]

No Dave, I have them made. Its Just SOOO much better then when i made them myself years ago. Of course, I guess if I went back to that it would be easier (and cheaper ?) to prototype that way. Hmmm....

[mister_e]

Home made pcb is still good for small production and/or proof on concept, but yes you need to play a little bit with chemicals and stuff like that. Home made SMD, double side PCB is not a problem. I still do it here, then once I'm sure everything's o.k I go for the outsource.

Does ExpressPCB software allow you to export to gerber or you need to stick with their service only? Beauty of third party one, is the ability to generate standard gerber format so you can have your PCB made everywhere. Some place even accept Eagle files directly, not only generated gerber ones.

[cncmachineguy]

Express PCB is strickly stick with their service. Mind you their service is good. I have never had any problems with it.

[Darrel Taylor]

Everyone probably already knows my oppinion of Proteus, but I'll say it again.
It's totally awesome. Best SIM I've ever seen. I'll never be without it again, unless I quit programming PIC's.

I just recently started using ARES (the PCB part) at work, and I've never made PCBoards so easily. It was actually fun for once. I always hated doing PCB's before.

It isn't exactly cheap, but if you can afford it, I would recommend it above anything else.

And NO, you don't need the "Advanced Simulation" stuff.
The real strength of Proteus is the simulation of your code in a microprocessor.
The analog parts work, if your design is good. Out of spec designs give results you wouldn't see in real life, so it's not a "Proof of concept" if you don't have a good design to start with.

It is invaluable for debugging code though.
Especially when you're debugging other people's code.

[mackrackit]

No Dave, I have them made. Its Just SOOO much better then when i made them myself years ago. Of course, I guess if I went back to that it would be easier (and cheaper ?) to prototype that way. Hmmm....

Around nine months ago I purchased my first cnc mill. Never again to use chemicals. For prototypes and small runs it is great. When I learn more about machining, jigs and fixtures it may even be good for relatively large runs. No silks though..

[Ioannis]

For home made pcb's look also at http://www.pulsarprofx.com/pcbfx/main_site/pages/

I liked very much the idea of having etching with a sponge and a few drops of etchant fluid.

Ioannis

[cncmachineguy]

@Dave, I would love to see pics of your mill! Also, mill size, speed and feed. Have you tried cutting any solder mask's? I saw someone doing that on you tube with some .005 brass I think. Seems like I remember them holding it down with 3M or some other spray glue.

@Ioannis, That is a GREAT link! I think I have read the entire site, and I must say, it looks like a wonderful technique. Still unsure on solder mask and the via's sound a bit cumbersome. but for prototyping, sounds like fun.

@Darrel, Thanks for jumping in and carrying the flag for VSM! Without the advanced sim stuff, are you able to watch outputs like on a scope? So being able to compare timing between signals and such?

[Darrel Taylor]

Without the advanced sim stuff, are you able to watch outputs like on a scope? So being able to compare timing between signals and such?

Oh yeah, lots of test equipment.

4-ch. O-Scope (DSO)
32-ch. Logic analyzer
Frequency counter/timer
I2C debugger
SPI debugger
Voltmeter
Ammeter
Pattern Generator
Signal Generator
Virtual Terminal

And you can have multiples of each one. Try putting 4 O-scopes on your workbench.
More test equipment than I could ever afford in real life.

RS232 ports connect to real COM ports.
Sound devices use the PC speakers.
Virtual ATA hard drives.
Stepper Motors
Servo Motors
LCDs
GLCDs
Switches, keypads
LED's, LED matrix
RTC's, EEPROM's, 7400 TTL series, 4000 CMOS series chips.
And if you're old enough ... Thermionic Valves (Tubes)

You can run multiple PIC's, each with a different program, at the same time.

It's just Waaaaay Toooo Coool!

[cncmachineguy]

And if you're old enough ... Thermionic Valves (Tubes)

I'm old enough to know these are the glowing orange things that used to make the TV have to "warm up" before watching!

Darrel Thanks for helping with this decision. I am sure I am going to pull the trigger for this. My "bench space" is low, So this is a great idea!!

[tenaja]

I'm with Daryl on the sim... I've been using the vsm for several years, and love it. The advanced stuff is more for calculating noise in audio ckts and such. Using Isis has cut down on development time a lot, and I can't imagine what Mr. E is complaining about. Their models are very accurate--sometimes MORE accurate than the hardware. (i.e. designed with no batch-specific errata.)

I used Eagle prior to switching to Ares. I switched because I figured it'd be nice to have just one cad package, and Eagle had a few things that really irked me. Well, Eagle fixed those things right when I bought Ares, and I'd have stayed with it had I known more.

When you sim a PIC, you typically don't sim the full ckt--you put in primitives, and stuff like that so it will sim at full speed. Full analog slows it down a LOT, so you end up with two schematics (or one that's a lot bigger and messier, with some excluded from sim and some excluded from pcb) doing it this way. As far as layout goes, Ares isn't quite up to the power of Eagle. They both have annoying quirks, but Eagle is a bit more powerful...although Ares is slowly catching up, and it is nice having just one forum to read. Oh, yeah... Eagle has a LOT more part libraries, too, but they are significantly easier to make in Ares, and a lot easier to edit too.

So, now that I have it, I'm not about to go back to Eagle...but had I known then what I know now I'd have stuck with Eagle. I like its precision and power, but it's harder to learn.

That's my 2c.