The Future Of Hobby Electronics.

[Luciano]

Hi Trent,

This is true for consumer electronics in most parts of the world.

* * *

What about industrial electronics?

How do you control your Vegemite packaging machines?
There are so many applications for microcontrollers!

Best regards,

Luciano

[Melanie]

People used to make (and still do!!) Crystal Set Radios despite the fact that tripple-superheterodyne receivers with digital displays probably cost the same amount of money as the Retail price of the sum of parts for the Crystal Set. Why? To learn something. To get a sense of achievement and accomplishment. Just for the fun of it.

When tag-strips and point-to-point wiring became obsolete in favour of PCB's, hobbyists probably cried that they wouldn't be able to make PCB's and it would kill the hobby. It didn't. People adapt. Moving forward, folks on this forum play with, and interface with, GPS for example. They didn't make the receiver - it was bought-in as a module, but there's still a lot of mileage and fun playing with, and designing products with those.

I've got a drawer full of ideas that I want to progress when I've a free moment... some of those ideas are for valves... you know those things with heaters and anodes and grids... Why? "It's all been done before" you might say. Sure, but it's not been done MY WAY, and there's nothing nicer than walking down Hight Street Anytown and seeing something you've designed in a shop window. There's that feeling of satisfaction and accomplishment again. Not quite orgasmic - but close.

I do really think however that one thing has gone down the pan... fifty years ago when you played with 400v HT supplies and you didn't know what you were doing, you didn't last long - kinda survival of the fittest. Those wannabe's ended up falling by the wayside (usually in a smoudering heap). Evolution at work - you had respect for the survivors. Sadly, there is a perfect example of the true state of affairs today, with a request for conversion of code from Assembler to Basic where the poster hasn't a clue of either, yet still wants to produce a working PIC project of some complexity. Gimme strength!

[malc-c]

I don't think hobby electronics will ever die and fade away.. there will always be people with an interest and a market to cater for that interest nomatter how small. Years ago most large towns had a component shop, where now most parts have to be ordered online / mailorder from places like RS / Farnell / Rapid (in the UK) and Digikey / Mouser etc in the US. Having said that Maplin here in the UK still offer the option to buy most common components at most of there shops throughout the UK.

Agreed as far as consumer electronics go we are in a throw away world, and that has killed of the service industry in countries where labour rates are fairly high by comparason to what the units can be imported for. having said that I've always been interested in the challange to keep things working and will always source out a part to keep the washing machine / tumble dryer running. And as Mel said you get that nsatisfaction of knowing that I did that

I'm new to PICs and for me I still find it exciting when you type some words into an application on the screen and then after a few clicks load the code into a small device, plug it in to my breadboard and it works first time (well most of the time )

I also echo Mel's comments about knowing that something you've made or developed your way is in use somewhere in the world. With the help of then guys here I've just completed a project for a local club. True we could of gone out and purchased a commercial unit for about twice the cost of the component, and it would of saved me hours of head scratching (both mine and those who helped with the code).. but it gives me a nice feeling to know that something I built is working better than any commercial unit and is giving pleasure to others who don't have any interest or understanding of these things.

Also, there is the learning aspect. A few years I had no idea how a PIC worked (still don't if I'm totaly honest) but I've picked up enough understanding and learnt from the guys here to be able to program a PIC to do most things that I have an interest in - some having no real use commercially or to anyone else, but itsn given me a lot of fun in developing each project and learning along the way.

Mel also commented on the advancement of technology, from strip board to PCB's. We've also seen the PC enter the home and now its possible for anyone to use a free application to produce some really good PCB's using either toner transfer method or UV photo. We also use the PC to author our PBP programs, and load the HEX to the PIC via suitable software and hardware... I don't see this as being detrimental to hobby electronics... just that where in the past we used to work out the type and array of logic chips etc we needed, now we look at doing the whole thing in a small 8 pin package instead

[keithdoxey]

Years ago most large towns had a component shop, where now most parts have to be ordered online / mailorder from places like RS / Farnell / Rapid (in the UK) and Digikey / Mouser etc in the US.

Agreed. I can still remember buying my first LED from MM Electronics in Norwich about 30 years ago when I was at college. We sat in the corridor waiting for the classroom to open and were playing with the LED, a few resistors and a 6V lantern battery.

We experimented with different resistor values and observed that lower value resistors gave a brighter light except that strangely with no resistor it got dimmer and the leads got warm. After a few comparisons of resistor/no resistor a horrible smell filled the corridor and the magic smoke escaped from the LED after which it was a DED (Dark Emiting Dud).

So, approximately 30 minutes after buying the first LED we were planning a trip the following lunchtime to buy the second having learnt an expensive lesson as the LED cost the same as two pints of beer !!!!

The vast majority of my components now come from Rapid. I started using them over 20 years ago when the catalogue was about 1/4inch thick, now it is about 2 inches thick!!!

Having said that Maplin here in the UK still offer the option to buy most common components at most of there shops throughout the UK.

You can not be serious !!!!

I first became a Maplin customer in 1978 and for many years they were my prefered supplier, good catalogue, good prices and excellent service but since they turned into a replacement for Tandy (Radio Shack) I have hardly bought a thing from them as they no longer stock most of the components I want to buy and where they do still sell components that I buy they are vastly overpriced.

I remember the first time I walked into a Maplin Shop, it was Manchester and it was superb. What I particularly liked was the fact that things like cases were openly on display and you could then visualise your project built into one whereas looking at a picture and the dimensions just didnt have the same effect.

I looked forward to the opening of the Norwich store which although 20 miles away would still mean that I could be browsing within the hour and potentially building within 2 hours. Then the store opened..... what a disappointment.

It was like being in Tandy. The majority of the display space was taken up by ready made toys and several of the staff looked/sounded as if they would only be able to identify the hot end of a soldering iron if it was actually turned on.

Attempting to buy components was even worse. Maybe I have peculiar demands in purchasing parts but it seemed that many of the parts I tried to buy werent stocked in the shop but had to be sent from the main warehouse which at first they would do without any postal charges but last time I tried they also wanted P&P. Even "common" components only had minimal stock holding. I wanted 4 Standard Mono Jack Plugs. I ended up buying 2 mono and 2 stereo and strapping them to Mono because they didnt have enough.

Maplin are now bottom of my list of component suppliers which is a shame as the "original" Maplin company was superb.

[T.Jackson]

One thing that I forgot to mention, it is possible that it might "bounce back".
innovators, highly skilled creative geniuses might save the day.

How?
By getting more people interested in it. The only way to do this is to come up with projects that just simply can't be bought pre-made. Projects that will dazzle even the most hard-to-impress people. Projects that will make a salesman run down the road to purchase a soldering iron just to build it...

Otherwise, I give it all 5 to 10 years. Within 5yrs there will be no magazines. Within 10 there will be no suppliers.

I rest my case.

Trent Jackson

[keithdoxey]

I think a lot also stems from the way kids "toys" have changed.

When I was a boy, you would have things like Train Sets and Meccano construction sets where you used your imagination to create something from the most basic of parts. As you got a bit older then you would get a chemistry set or an electronics kit and again start from first principles and create something from a pile of bits.

Now everything is available ready made from China for less than the cost of the parts, and in the case of electronic toys, often for less than the cost of one of the parts eg display. Kids sit in fron of video games for hours on end and have little or no interest in being "creative" be it woodwork, metalwork, electronics etc instead they just sit a destroy virtual aliens.

Even somethign a basic as a Lego set doesnt offer the stimulation it once did. Lego sets used to have brick in red or white, green baseboards and blue roof tiles. Apart from a few doors and windows almost everything needed imagination to create the finished work of art. Lego resided in a huge bucket that you rumaged through to find the bits you wanted. Now it is sold in small sets that are designed to create just one specific design, where is the imagination in that

[Melanie]

For the professionals there will always be component suppliers, but for the hobbyist there is a problem...

You want 4 x 1k 1/4W, 3 x 33k, 1 x 8K2 and sixteen other values... half a dozen capacitor and a couple of Transistors. You hand the list to the shop assistant and half an hour later he comes back with your $1.85 worth of parts whilst costing his employer $8 in Labour. The figures just don't add up anymore. A box of 1000 resistors costs under $5 but already I can hear the hobbysists and students on the forum rioting "but I don't want 1000 of the same value"!!!! So suffer... instead of that Resistor costing you 0.5 cents, you end up paying 20 cents for a 1-off. You won't pay the money, and stop going to the shop, the shop closes down and everyone moans that the hobby is dying....

[Jumper]

I just went to my favorite store. It is acctually 3 big supremarkets with several floors selling everything you can wish for over the counter in single units, surface mount to things used in the WW1 russian radios :-). Today's shopping list was:

5 pcs LM3940-3.3
2 pcs (two) 0.25W 22 ohm hole mounted resistors
2 pcs 5mW lasers
2 pcs 10 mW lasers
10 pcs 22k variable resistors
2 MicroSD card holders

total cost USD 12

I really can't see the problem and tomorrow I will order PCB's with a 7 days delivery time, but I could get it in 24 hours....

/me

[T.Jackson]

For the professionals there will always be component suppliers, but for the hobbyist there is a problem...

You want 4 x 1k 1/4W, 3 x 33k, 1 x 8K2 and sixteen other values... half a dozen capacitor and a couple of Transistors. You hand the list to the shop assistant and half an hour later he comes back with your $1.85 worth of parts whilst costing his employer $8 in Labour. The figures just don't add up anymore. A box of 1000 resistors costs under $5 but already I can hear the hobbysists and students on the forum rioting "but I don't want 1000 of the same value"!!!! So suffer... instead of that Resistor costing you 0.5 cents, you end up paying 20 cents for a 1-off. You won't pay the money, and stop going to the shop, the shop closes down and everyone moans that the hobby is dying....

In Australia, Dick Smith Electronics - a very large supplier to the enthusiast is starting to pull out. Their power house outlets, once relying on the sale of resistors, kits, etc.. are now primarily focusing on consumer electrical. As Melanie pointed out, the cost of labor can sometimes place the employer in a situation of loss. However, this can of course occur in any business that relies on the sale of "mixed bag" goods. The sale of larger, more expensive items is what makes the ends meet.

I have often found myself walking into a store with the intentions of a specific $20 purchase only. After several minutes of browsing, something has caught my eye that I just had to have. So instead I walked of the store having spent $500! "Hmm, I only wanted parts but instead I now have a new CRO"

Sound like an all too familiar story?

Trent Jackson

[malc-c]

You can not be serious !!!!

I didn't say they were cheap, and I did say most components

I agree that Maplin now seem to fill their shelves with these cheap toys and the like, rather than stocking full range of components and modules, and I guess that it will only be a matter of time before the racks space for the components will be replaced with more tat. However, Maplin are fairly cheap, when compared to RS for example, and yes you can buy single resistors rather than 10 or 100.

[T.Jackson]

People used to make (and still do!!) Crystal Set Radios despite the fact that tripple-superheterodyne receivers with digital displays probably cost the same amount of money as the Retail price of the sum of parts for the Crystal Set. Why? To learn something. To get a sense of achievement and accomplishment. Just for the fun of it.

Having been the author of a dozen practical projects that have been published in the Silicon Chip magazine, I can truly appreciate the term "Just for the fun of it". I have been involved in some way or other with DIY electronics for the past 10 years. My main motivation has always been for "a sense of achievement and accomplishment" Some of my projects have been sold as commercial kits. Two of my most recent use a PIC16f877a.

There's always going to be some people around, perhaps 1 in a 1,000 that are wanting some involvement in electronics as a hobby. Problem is, when 1 in 1,000 becomes 1 in 100,000 sources for it as a hobby will vanish. Magazines, books, kits (already starting to happen), parts and so on.

Like anything else in this World, it's a mere case of "supply & demand". It's what makes the World go round. No rocket science here.

Best Regards,
Trent Jackson

[T.Jackson]

Hi Trent,

This is true for consumer electronics in most parts of the world.

* * *

What about industrial electronics?

How do you control your Vegemite packaging machines?
There are so many applications for microcontrollers!

Best regards,

Luciano

Hi Luciano,

Industrial electronics?
In all honesty, I don't know enough about it to comment. Anyone care to share some thoughts?

Best Regards,
Trent Jackson