thanks mister_e, never thought of that, intrestingly though i put an extra bit of code in to flash an led for a split second and tested that with both the oscon in the code and without it. the led flashed at the same rate. are you sure that the default is 32kHz?

as for the lcd working, it still doesnt so i think i might have to send it back.

if anyones got anymore ideas then please say so.

thanks everyone
phil