9600 baud has always worked on a 4MHz *external* osc for me before. I think that means 4MHz is enough but it might be a different story with the internal one.

How did you get that list of PICs? when i searched for what i wanted it only found that 1 result. I only specified a few search items too.

I wont ask why i should use DEBUGIN because im sure the manual covers it. It has arrived but ive not had chance to read it yet (i will do before i have to program something again). It came with a CD too I was expecting a floppy disk