what programmer to use with 18F452 ?

[Ramonetnet]

OK - if you 3 agree in that, maybe I shall skip those "cheap" programmers ..

I was about to buy this one :

PIC-PG2C @ http://www.olimex.com/dev/pic-pg2c.html = 19 €.

OK - I go to the page pointer to by mr mackrackit ...

but the Part Number: PG164120 - PICkit 2 Microcontroller Programmer (23,84 €)

HAS NO SOCKET AT ALL, neither for the 18F452 !

The "Part Number: DV164120 - PICkit 2 Starter Kit" (34,06 €) has a "Low Pin Count Demo Board containing a PIC16F690 PDIP", and it explicitly says "The PICkit 2 Low Pin Count Demo Board supports 8-, 14-, and 20-pin PICmicros", and the 18F452 has 40 pins !

What am I doing wrong ?

I did write to Microchip, asked to program a 18F452 and a 18F4520,
and they pointed me to "Part Number: DV003001 - PICSTART PLUS DEVELOPMENT SYSTEM" which goes up to 136 € !

Thanks for your patience ! Ramon.

[skimask]

but the Part Number: PG164120 - PICkit 2 Microcontroller Programmer (23,84 €)
HAS NO SOCKET AT ALL, neither for the 18F452 !

That's because you're supposed to set yourself up with a small 5/6 pin header so you can reprogram the PIC while it's still installed in the circuit....otherwise known as In Circuit Serial Programming (ICSP).

The "Part Number: DV164120 - PICkit 2 Starter Kit" (34,06 €) has a "Low Pin Count Demo Board containing a PIC16F690 PDIP", and it explicitly says "The PICkit 2 Low Pin Count Demo Board supports 8-, 14-, and 20-pin PICmicros", and the 18F452 has 40 pins !
What am I doing wrong ?

I don't think you're doing anything wrong...just getting a couple of things confused...
The demo board supports small PICs, yes, if you use the 18F452, which has the 40 pins, you have to program it in circuit as described above.

Open up a PIC datasheet and read up on 'In Circuit Serial Programming'. That should clear it up for you.

[Ramonetnet]

Thank you, mr Skimask ... I do agree on all your opinions, except on what I have to do !
All I have is a proto-board with a PIC on it.
There is no way I plug a 5/6pin header in it - I don't have the knowledge,
even I did read the ICSP part of the manual.

I have done something different : I wrote to Microchip.

First they recommended to buy the "PICSTART plus", code "DV003001".
Unfortunately, its price tag is at 136,24 €

I wrote back again, asking for something cheaper. Now they say : ... you need

PG164120 = 23,84 € = pickit2 programmer
AC162049 = 27,24 € = universal programming module (socket)
AC164110 = 6,81 € = RJ-11 to ICSP adapter (cable)

Now, 58 € looks better to me.

WHAT IS YOUR OPINION ?

[BigWumpus]

Using PIC18F-devices was the point when I can't use IC-Prog (and JDM-Programmer) any more!

I use the ASIX PRESTO - it is very fine,
but the Pic Kit 2 is a very good part for the start!

Don't think about the sockets - use 5 wires from the PIC to a 5-pin-header for ICSP.

[mister_e]

yes yes yes... ICSP all the way when at all possible... it's always possible though.

[Ramonetnet]

YES, all you people are telling me again and again
there is something called "5-pin-header for ICSP"
I stll did not understand at all.

LET ME READ THE BOOKS (thanks, mack) and I SHALL BE BACK !
Ramon, gratefull.