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That's the problem with this world... everyone is imitating instead of innovating...Who cares what's inside. Everyone who is using circuits to create a new one based on it.
I personally know at least THREE millionaires... each of them became that way because of PICs and MeLabs's PICBasic... and when they see a PIC, they smile too...If I saw a PIC on the back of a LCD, I would smile.
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There is a misunderstanding. It is about innovating - not reinventing.
A software engineer does not need to solder his mainboard.
You are using given components to develop on a higher level -
as it is with PBP compared to ASM.
If you produce for business partners it matters. If you produce for the end
user who wants to use it only - then there's no need to replace the pic.
One question is still there, though:
Which kinds of associations are evoked when an experienced person
sees 'microchip' on one of the boards' chips ? Amateurish or Professional ?
Be well - whoever you are.
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Neither. It is just another component on the board.One question is still there, though:
Which kinds of associations are evoked when an experienced person
sees 'microchip' on one of the boards' chips ? Amateurish or Professional ?
It's the finished product that counts.
I have seen some very poor professional products where I wonder why the engineers are not in jail, and I have seen amateur products built as a hobby that are 'par excellance' that would put many professional engineers to shame.
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May be the answer is not so simple ...Originally Posted by selbstdual
Why ask for a Cray computer to count 2+2 ???
Why ask for .0001% calc. precision when your sensors give at best 1 or 2 %
It's not a question of amateur or professionnal ... only a question of more or less known brands ...
The less known, the more professionnal ... of course !!! Only professionnals could know that brand !!!
µChip has been one of the first brands to understand a "cheap" IDE and huge litterature and tools associated with would seriously boost their products selling.
Others only follow ... slowly.
Heard of Cypress ??? what do you think of their PSoC Express ???
Heard of Freescale ??? What do you think of their Processor Expert ???
...
Professionnal tools or amateur tools ???
Professionnal Brands or amateur Brands ???
Alain
************************************************** ***********************
Why insist on using 32 Bits when you're not even able to deal with the first 8 ones ??? ehhhhhh ...
************************************************** ***********************
IF there is the word "Problem" in your question ...
certainly the answer is " RTFM " or " RTFDataSheet " !!!
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Hi,
The ability to match processing power to the application is an
important consideration when designers select a microcontroller.
For a mass production, the goal is to have adequate processing
power at the lowest possible price.
What kind of applications do you have in mind?
Best regards,
Luciano
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Not that it makes a difference in the whole amateur vs. professional arena...but...
I work in a shop where we fix 'obsolete', no longer procurable items.
I'll pull apart a lot of items on a daily basis to see what's what...and if it's fixable or not...
There are a lot of PIC's out there. A lot of the PIC16Cxx types are in quite a few household appliances, washers, dryers, microwaves, etc. (generally these items are too old to have flash PICs in them). I taken a number of the PICs to my house to check them out. Read out the old code (you'd be surprised how many of the older PICs are code protected!!!), burn some new code to try out the pin drivers, reburn the old code). I haven't found one yet that had failed, 99.9% of the time, it's something else (i.e. motor, gear train, valve, etc).
Of course this is just off the top of my head. I've seen PICs in numerous other places. And I will say that it appears that the PICs major role in these items is as reprogrammable glue logic, which is exactly what PICs 'back in the day' were made for, take up a load of discrete logic chips, pack them into one chip.
And again, all name brand stuff.
And that's the beauty of a PIC......good enough for the pro's, simple enough for the schmo's....
(and I keep going back to post #2, something about a pic in the box in the box...)
Last edited by skimask; - 18th June 2007 at 21:16. Reason: Changed 'worked' to 'work'...I'm still here, still fixing crap...
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The perception of something amateurish or professional is in the eye of the beholder.
So, professional or amateur?
The definition is one who gets paid for doing something, or one who does it without recompense, for a hobby or for the love of it. Just because you get paid for doing something doesn't mean you're any better than someone who doesn't.
Professionnal Brands or amateur Brands ???
Let's put forward an example. Fit SIEMENS (premium European brand) Relay at about $1 or HONGFA (Chinese budget brand) at 21 cents? Which is the professional? What about Contactors? Fit SIEMENS brand at SIX times the price of Chinese TEKO brand? It may surprise you to learn that SIEMENS consistantly fails in the field, yet their market dominance and perception of a premium professional brand means they'll continue to peddle their overpriced products, and those who know no better will continue to buy their offerings.
Definition of a professional company? One who has better PR and a stronger salesforce.
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Discussion
Not in security relevant areas.It's the finished product that counts.
Examples ? I have never seen an amateur designing an ipod like device. Especially concerning the thickness.I have seen some very poor professional products where I wonder why the engineers are not in jail, and I have seen amateur products built as a hobby that are 'par excellance' that would put many professional engineers to shame.
The less known, the less trustworthy.The less known, the more professionnal.
I can't see a connection to the topic.Heard of Cypress ??? what do you think of their PSoC Express ???
Heard of Freescale ??? What do you think of their Processor Expert ???.
Yes. There are compareable products, which have the same processing power but are not used by hobbyists. I think it is a curse for b2b if your products are mainly used by hobbyists. Well, hobbyist does not need to be equal to producing amateurish products, but this is how it is perceived often.The ability to match processing power to the application is an
important consideration when designers select a microcontroller.
Yes.For a mass production, the goal is to have adequate processing
power at the lowest possible price.
What do you mean ?What kind of applications do you have in mind?
I am talking about professional people in the working areas being mentioned (mainly security). Imagine a power plant where the brown out bit is set in a pic and the pic suddenly stops working.The perception of something amateurish or professional is in the eye of the beholder.
You invest more time in the same thing. The same as in university: You know a lot more than someone who has not studied a subject yet. There is a higher probability that your circuits are better because you know more approaches to a solution.Just because you get paid for doing something doesn't mean you're any better than someone who doesn't.
Yes.Definition of a professional company? One who has better PR and a stronger salesforce.
Be well - whoever you are.
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PICs are used by hobbyists because they are easy to use and the development tools are cheap. That doesnt mean that PICs arent used in commercial products. I have a couple of Kenwood 5" TFT Monitors and the controlling chip is a PIC.
Yes a lot of hobbyists use PICs and between them probably buy thousands of devices per year but someone like Melanie buys thousands of devices for a single product their company produces.
I have over a thousand items out there containing PICs and in over 5 years there hasnt beeen a single failure caused by a PIC or the software.
That comment is fatally flawed. Many microcontrollers have brownout detection etc. How the microcontroller is programmed and how the hardware/software responds to brownouts etc is down to the skills of the designer.I am talking about professional people in the working areas being mentioned (mainly security). Imagine a power plant where the brown out bit is set in a pic and the pic suddenly stops working.
Hmmmm.... at least one member of this list has designed an MP3 player using a PIC. True, it is probably larger than an iPod but then the first generation iPods were considerably larger than current models. Its also a fair bet that the proof of concept design wasnt all that small. Given the facilities to produce the required hardware there is no reason why an "amateur" couldnt create such a design but the tools, facilities and finance required are beyond their means.I have never seen an amateur designing an ipod like device. Especially concerning the thickness.
The whole Amateur/Professional division is a difficult line to draw.
The word professional can be used to indicate someone with formal qualifications, someone who is paid for doing a particular task, or can be used to indicate the finished look of a product.
An amateur may earn a few beer tokens for their hobby in which case they could be classed as semi-professional, they could have far greater knowledge than someone with formal qualifications but just dont have that "bit of paper" and they can (and often do) produce work to a very high standard.
Getting back the the thread title, my opinion is that the PIC is both Playground AND Serious Microcontroller.
Serious Microcontroller because millions of electronic items contain PICs and Playground because it is an affordable way for hobbyists to get into Microcontrollers.
Keith
www.diyha.co.uk
www.kat5.tv
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This probably doesn't help, but....
There are PIC's flying on the International Space Station.
The reason it won't help, is because the only one's I know about are on "amateur" science projects.
And to top it off ... I heard some Basic Stamps made it up there too.
What's the world coming to.
.
DT
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http://web.ndak.net/jdgrotte/mp3player/mp3_player.html
Version 5 of that 'hobbyist project' was going to be 1 1/2" thick, 80GB drive, lithium-ion pack, color GLCD, RF remote, IR remote, RF FM Xmtr, OBD2 interface, USB 2 support...
Then I gave up because the market got saturated a few years ago...
And 'Sodamm Insane' was a saint?The less known, the less trustworthy.
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it's somehow insane. What's a microcontroller anyway?
Black pinned box with memory code and I/O. Write whatever you want on, they will do the job.
Cypress, Freescale, Ti, Zilog, StMicroelectronics and ALL new monthly brands you could see in EP&T and Electronic Design magazine... who will care as they do their job?
Yes some are more powerful, some less. Microchip ofer many different range of microcontroller, from the most stupid 10F to DsPIC. I use them all, i love 'em all. But yes, in some case i may need to use another brand for more powerful application. It's called, BlackFin.
Get the job done and that's it.
The software developer have something to do with it.
Steve
It's not a bug, it's a random feature.
There's no problem, only learning opportunities.
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