PICs - Playground or 'serious' microcontroller

[Melanie]

When you buy a new Microwave Oven, do you check what microprocessor is inside? No.

When you buy a new flatscreen TV, do you check what microprocessor is inside? No.

When you buy a new car, do you check what microprocessor controls the engine management system? No.

When you go into hospital, do you check what microprocessor is checking your Blood Pressure and Heart Rate? No.

Next time you drive down the road, did you ever think as to what microprocessor is controlling the city junction traffic lights? No.

Ever think about what microprocessor dispenses the fuel into your car? No.

Ever thought about the microprocessor that keeps your house Heated or Air Conditioned or the water in your shower at optimum temperature? No.

When you drop money into a vending machine for your next can of cold Coke or Coffee or Chocolate Bar, will you first consider what microprocessor is dispensing your chosen vend? No.

People don't care about microprocessors - they care about Cars, Hot Food and getting home on time to a comfortable house, what's on TV tonight, Fuel and Coke and Coffee and Chocolate Bars and Sex! Yup, there's even a microchip PIC in one brand of vibrator that I know of...

So who cares what's inside the box!

[selbstdual]

Who cares what's inside. Everyone who is using circuits to create a new one based on it.

Take motor driving circuits - or LCDs. If I saw a PIC on the back of a LCD, I would smile. But this is me.

Finally all people who do not like proprietary software care what's inside of a technical device aswell.

[Melanie]

Who cares what's inside. Everyone who is using circuits to create a new one based on it.

That's the problem with this world... everyone is imitating instead of innovating...

If I saw a PIC on the back of a LCD, I would smile.

I personally know at least THREE millionaires... each of them became that way because of PICs and MeLabs's PICBasic... and when they see a PIC, they smile too...

[selbstdual]

There is a misunderstanding. It is about innovating - not reinventing.

A software engineer does not need to solder his mainboard.

You are using given components to develop on a higher level -
as it is with PBP compared to ASM.

If you produce for business partners it matters. If you produce for the end
user who wants to use it only - then there's no need to replace the pic.

One question is still there, though:

Which kinds of associations are evoked when an experienced person
sees 'microchip' on one of the boards' chips ? Amateurish or Professional ?

[Melanie]

One question is still there, though:

Which kinds of associations are evoked when an experienced person
sees 'microchip' on one of the boards' chips ? Amateurish or Professional ?

Neither. It is just another component on the board.

It's the finished product that counts.

I have seen some very poor professional products where I wonder why the engineers are not in jail, and I have seen amateur products built as a hobby that are 'par excellance' that would put many professional engineers to shame.

[Acetronics2]

Which kinds of associations are evoked when an experienced person
sees 'microchip' on one of the boards' chips ? Amateurish or Professional ?

May be the answer is not so simple ...

Why ask for a Cray computer to count 2+2 ???
Why ask for .0001% calc. precision when your sensors give at best 1 or 2 %

It's not a question of amateur or professionnal ... only a question of more or less known brands ...

The less known, the more professionnal ... of course !!! Only professionnals could know that brand !!!

µChip has been one of the first brands to understand a "cheap" IDE and huge litterature and tools associated with would seriously boost their products selling.

Others only follow ... slowly.

Heard of Cypress ??? what do you think of their PSoC Express ???
Heard of Freescale ??? What do you think of their Processor Expert ???
...

Professionnal tools or amateur tools ???
Professionnal Brands or amateur Brands ???

Alain

[Luciano]

Hi,

The ability to match processing power to the application is an
important consideration when designers select a microcontroller.

For a mass production, the goal is to have adequate processing
power at the lowest possible price.

What kind of applications do you have in mind?


Best regards,

Luciano

[skimask]

Not that it makes a difference in the whole amateur vs. professional arena...but...

I work in a shop where we fix 'obsolete', no longer procurable items.
I'll pull apart a lot of items on a daily basis to see what's what...and if it's fixable or not...
There are a lot of PIC's out there. A lot of the PIC16Cxx types are in quite a few household appliances, washers, dryers, microwaves, etc. (generally these items are too old to have flash PICs in them). I taken a number of the PICs to my house to check them out. Read out the old code (you'd be surprised how many of the older PICs are code protected!!!), burn some new code to try out the pin drivers, reburn the old code). I haven't found one yet that had failed, 99.9% of the time, it's something else (i.e. motor, gear train, valve, etc).
Of course this is just off the top of my head. I've seen PICs in numerous other places. And I will say that it appears that the PICs major role in these items is as reprogrammable glue logic, which is exactly what PICs 'back in the day' were made for, take up a load of discrete logic chips, pack them into one chip.
And again, all name brand stuff.
And that's the beauty of a PIC......good enough for the pro's, simple enough for the schmo's....
(and I keep going back to post #2, something about a pic in the box in the box...)

[Melanie]

The perception of something amateurish or professional is in the eye of the beholder.

So, professional or amateur?

The definition is one who gets paid for doing something, or one who does it without recompense, for a hobby or for the love of it. Just because you get paid for doing something doesn't mean you're any better than someone who doesn't.

Professionnal Brands or amateur Brands ???

Let's put forward an example. Fit SIEMENS (premium European brand) Relay at about $1 or HONGFA (Chinese budget brand) at 21 cents? Which is the professional? What about Contactors? Fit SIEMENS brand at SIX times the price of Chinese TEKO brand? It may surprise you to learn that SIEMENS consistantly fails in the field, yet their market dominance and perception of a premium professional brand means they'll continue to peddle their overpriced products, and those who know no better will continue to buy their offerings.

Definition of a professional company? One who has better PR and a stronger salesforce.

[selbstdual]

It's the finished product that counts.

Not in security relevant areas.

I have seen some very poor professional products where I wonder why the engineers are not in jail, and I have seen amateur products built as a hobby that are 'par excellance' that would put many professional engineers to shame.

Examples ? I have never seen an amateur designing an ipod like device. Especially concerning the thickness.

The less known, the more professionnal.

The less known, the less trustworthy.

Heard of Cypress ??? what do you think of their PSoC Express ???
Heard of Freescale ??? What do you think of their Processor Expert ???.

I can't see a connection to the topic.

The ability to match processing power to the application is an
important consideration when designers select a microcontroller.

Yes. There are compareable products, which have the same processing power but are not used by hobbyists. I think it is a curse for b2b if your products are mainly used by hobbyists. Well, hobbyist does not need to be equal to producing amateurish products, but this is how it is perceived often.

For a mass production, the goal is to have adequate processing
power at the lowest possible price.

Yes.

What kind of applications do you have in mind?

What do you mean ?

The perception of something amateurish or professional is in the eye of the beholder.

I am talking about professional people in the working areas being mentioned (mainly security). Imagine a power plant where the brown out bit is set in a pic and the pic suddenly stops working.

Just because you get paid for doing something doesn't mean you're any better than someone who doesn't.

You invest more time in the same thing. The same as in university: You know a lot more than someone who has not studied a subject yet. There is a higher probability that your circuits are better because you know more approaches to a solution.

Definition of a professional company? One who has better PR and a stronger salesforce.

Yes.

[pmcleod]

, there's even a microchip PIC in one brand of vibrator that I know of...

So who cares what's inside the box!

Sorry to come into this late, but an engineer I know hates PICs so much, when asked by "A friend" to repair one of these he replaced the PIC with an AVR, the heathen;-) but apparently he tripled the number of operating modes.

I'm with you though, it matters what the product does, not what's inside to make it happen. My next project will be based around a smallish PIC but will sell, for circa £1000 (I hope)