How did you get started .....

[T.Jackson]

Oh, and I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't have a single piece of paper in a nice frame on my wall... College-shmollege, what a waste of money... (and I'm sure there's a lot of people in this hobby and on this forum that don't have a degree from the University of Anywhere...rock on!)

If we all thought like that there would be no professionals in the World. No Doctors, no competent engineers, everything all nice and "slap happy". Great World that would be. The scariest part, you seem quite proud about not having a formal qualification, and you're even encouraging it.

[Acetronics2]

Hi, Jackson

You do not like those lines ... but they're the truth !!!

Teachers only can teach what they hardly could understand ... the problem is here !!!

I had few teachers that learnt me useful things :

1) To be happy to learn ... to read,read,read and read !!!

2) To get off books or lessons and try to understand what really happens ( maths are the tool to SIMULATE the world ... never forget that !!! )

3) That other peole would have done things THEIR WAY ...and not mine,wich is, of course, totally stupid.

4) To listen and not hear what others say ...

5) There are always many solutions for a problem ... that depend upon the day,the hour,people around you,amount of coffee drunk ... etc,etc.

Yes, I can tell what you learn at school or university is a main function of your teacher's intelligence ... not their knowledge.

Alain

Thermics, Thermodynamics and Aérodynamics Engineer ( W/a real State Diploma !!!)
Mechanics, machining (?), and mechanical design sup tech Diploma.
And some little others ...

And who learnt electronics and a little informatics by himself ...

[T.Jackson]

You do not like those lines ... but they're the truth !!!

Teachers only can teach what they hardly could understand ... the problem is here !!!

Yes, I can tell what you learn at school or university is a main function of your teacher's intelligence ... not their knowledge.

What a load of kacka.

[Acetronics2]

What a load of kacka.

Easy answer too ...

The harder the falling ... read you next time with pleasure in a couple of years.

What about building some electronics till then ???

Alain

[malc-c]

Uhmm interesting.. Im sure there was a post here from Mel stating how good her life is having graduated witrh honours.... She probably had so many proposals of marriage after that, that she deleted the post

I'm not going to take sides in the debate over gaining qualifications or not is a good thing. However if you look back several decades the old practice of passing on skills by being a "mate" with a seasoned tradesman was the only way skills were kept going. These days its easy for anyone to spend a bit of time with their nose in a book and then sit an exam and scrape through with a pass and then demand a high paid position, yet in practical terms they have very little experience of the real world.

Like most people of his generation (he is now in his 80's) my father left school with no qualifications, just a basic maths and english. Before he retired he worked for a large drug maunfacture, mainly in the warehouse and could advise anyone who asked exactly the quantity of bottles, even pills that were on the load by working itn out in his head. I remember he told me how "he could do it quicker than any of these kids coming out of university could, and they resorted to calculators".

I admire all those that, like Mel have worked hard studying and are now reaping the rewards, and able to have a lifestyle only some of us can dream of. Its always worth having a qualification that you can fall back on, but I don't think that its right that people like T.Jackson should come down on Skimask so heavily... I don't see him as advocating that people shouldn't go to uni, more that he is proud to be in a position he is in without having to through what others have. I also have no formal IT qualifications, yet I'm holding down a job that pays the average IT salary in the UK and have demonstarted that my experience has out performed the person they previously employed, who had an MCSE !

The answer here is that its all down to the individual

[Acetronics2]

Hi, Malc

I remember this post ...

We were joking about people offering Mel a dinner in town ... without talking Electronics or business !!!

...

Alain

[keithdoxey]

Uhmm interesting.. Im sure there was a post here from Mel stating how good her life is having graduated witrh honours.... She probably had so many proposals of marriage after that, that she deleted the post

I'm glad you saw that as well, I was begining to think I had imagined it !!!

I'm not going to take sides in the debate over gaining qualifications or not is a good thing. However if you look back several decades the old practice of passing on skills by being a "mate" with a seasoned tradesman was the only way skills were kept going.

To a certain extent I think the lack of formal qualifications has a lot to do with age. I left school in 1976 and hardly anyone went to university and the first time I came across a "computer" it was a teletype connected to the mainframe at Norwich City College.

I worked for British Telecom for 29 years including a full apprenticeship but I dont actually have anything on paper. As part of our appenticeship we took a City and Guilds course in Telecommunications which for the first three years included four subjects....

Mathematics
Electrical Principles
Telephony and Telegraphy
Computing

... to pass the exam you had to have Maths, Electical Principles and one of the last two subjects. The final year of the course was day release rather than a 16 week block release and there was only time for three subjects so Computing was dropped as BT (or Post Office Telecommunications as it was then) would only accept a pass in Telephony and Telegraphy. At that point I sort of lost interest especially as it was a 15 hour day including travelling

During the remainder of my time with BT I did loads of internal courses and aquired a great many skills but you dont get bits of paper that have any recognised qualifications on them.

I admire all those that, like Mel have worked hard studying and are now reaping the rewards, and able to have a lifestyle only some of us can dream of. Its always worth having a qualification that you can fall back on, but I don't think that its right that people like T.Jackson should come down on Skimask so heavily... I don't see him as advocating that people shouldn't go to uni, more that he is proud to be in a position he is in without having to through what others have. I also have no formal IT qualifications, yet I'm holding down a job that pays the average IT salary in the UK and have demonstarted that my experience has out performed the person they previously employed, who had an MCSE !

The answer here is that its all down to the individual

I fully agree. I wish I had been born 15-20 years later so that I would have had the opportunity to go to university but it wasnt a common thing to do when I left school. you just got a job with an apprenticeship and stayed there until you retired..... then the world changed !!!

[skimask]

If we all thought like that there would be no professionals in the World. No Doctors, no competent engineers, everything all nice and "slap happy". Great World that would be. The scariest part, you seem quite proud about not having a formal qualification, and you're even encouraging it.

I need to clarify a bit...(and keeping it short, things to do, things to break)
Oh yeah, I'm proud...Proud of the fact that I was able to teach myself...that I didn't have to have another person(s) teach me...that I was able to save all that money for something else...
It's just that I've met a lot of people with degrees of one sort or another that don't know their head from a whole in the ground. I'm sure a lot of people have met those people.
School doesn't teach what's needed to be known, it only teaches a person how to learn.
How many parents do you know that have formal qualification to raise children?
How many people do you know that have any sort of formal qualification to have a computer and have access to the Internet?

I guess in the end, I'm just saying there's a lot of dumbasses with degrees that don't learn anything else when they get out of their happy little University study arena...maybe just a plain lack of common sense in general...

That and the family not having a lot of extra $$$ for college back in those days kinda put a damper on it too...
And where did that post from Mel go?

[BobK]

Hello All,

I have been enjoying reading this particular post. But, you know what gets me? All of the university/college students that are taking the engineering courses and are suppose to be learning and yet they come to this forum, the EDAboard.com, and the other electronics forums looking for assistance with "What should I do for a project?" or "How do I do this?" Of course my real favorite one is "I need to get this done in two days, can you help me?" What the hell are they going to and paying for college for? I like the responses that people like Skimask has been providing-"Show us what you have done so far by providing us with a schematic and code listing so we can assist you."

I personally have nothing in my education to talk about. High school graduate, Army, work to support wife and kids. I do attend alot of job related seminars and technical courses. I get an idea for a project and I sit down and work it out. I have been "playing" with electronics since the 6th grade when my dad brought me an Allied Radio catalog home and I bought and built a shortwave radio kit. I'm 60 now! I am proud of my accomplishments being in the alarm business for over 32 years and that I am respected here in Ohio in my profession. I have given back to my industry by teaching classes for 8 years to new people coming into this profession. I still enjoy passing on my knowledge as in Ohio we have very little regulation with educational requirements for this business.

I feel honored that the main people on this forum are willing to take their time to assist us with our problems. I read this forum twice a day. This is my source of learning! I have noticed over the past 6 months that there are more questions being asked that could have been answered by reading the previous posts and responses and then working their problems out. I guess they don't have much patience. (Remember the medical engineer last year?)

I actually collect these various posts and have them in files on my computer that I refer to when I encounter a problem or get ready to do another project. I have offered my knowledge here several times in the past but it seemed like I was talking to a brick wall so I don't contribute that much anymore (too frustrating) but I am here every day as I enjoy learning. My main area of interest is in dealing with real time clocks and using them to control things.

Well I've got to get back to work. Thanks for the great people on this forum and keep up the great work!

BobK

[Acetronics2]

And where did that post from Mel go?

The Forum was upgraded ... no mail kept from previous dates ...

Alain

[Melanie]

I think they meant Saturdays post Alain - I deleted it. It went a bit too far revealing what on reflection should have been kept private.

The basis of it was this... that a good University Degree (coupled with the fact that the holder of such actually deserves it) is pretty much a passport to earnings which will be in the range of 2x to 20x above the average throughout the whole earnings life of the holder. That alone is worth the few years of sacrifice.

I fully agree that experience also counts. There are many first class engineers, architects, lawyers, whatever, walking the planet that haven't got a piece of paper to their name. But they acquired their knowledge through (in many cases a lifetime of) experience. Like I said in my original posting, I'd rather have the goodies in life when I'm young enough to enjoy them than when my pension cheque is dropping on the doormat, and my Uni Degree was my fast-track in achieving that.

I also fully agree that there are hordes of people with various qualifications (including University Degrees) that don't deserve them. They get found out eventually and end up learning to speak the immortal lines "Do you want fries with that?".

But as I also said previously, if you know your stuff, that little bit of paper will guarantee you earnings that even your local Drugs Baron would be envious of.

[precision]

I started when i was 10 year old (1975), with GWBASIC and small timer 555 based project from Electronics For You.
now i manufacturing loadcell, pressure sensors, LVDTs,torque sensors, and peak hold instruments.

.

[keithdoxey]

The basis of it was this... that a good University Degree (coupled with the fact that the holder of such actually deserves it) is pretty much a passport to earnings which will be in the range of 2x to 20x above the average throughout the whole earnings life of the holder. That alone is worth the few years of sacrifice.

Cant disagree with that and IF I was about to leave school this year instead of 31 years ago I would definately be planning on going to University but as I said in one of my previous posts, it simply wasnt an option for someone leaving Secondary School with CSE's in the mid 70s.

It does seem though that many of the newbies posting are on University courses but dont seem to have any real background in electronics or programming so it makes you wonder why they are on the course that they are.

So far, the people who have replied who have had little or no formal education have indicated that one of their hobbies was electronics whilst still at school. I would imagine that anyone undertaking a university degree in a subject that they dont appear to have had any prior interest in is making life even more difficult for themselves

[mackrackit]

This has become a very interesting topic. Education and how one got or gets started in computers and electronics.

I am on both sides of the fence when it comes to a formal education. I do not have one and I am chief designer for the company I work for. My son is using a lot of my money and his time going to school to “learn” what he already knows or can lean from reading the instructions that comes with the part. Computer Science / Information Technologies is the degree he is working on. Now days though he will need that magic paper to find work in this field.

I started playing with electricity when I was about nine. My father (who did not complete high school ) showed me how to take some soup cans, wire, varnish, a few magnets and a piece of dowel rod – say the magic words and presto my first motor!!!

In high school was building car radio amplifiers to make a few bucks. At this same time I was introduced to an Apple. Became discouraged with computers soon after. Why take hours to write a logarithm or inverse square program when I could work the problems out on paper in a few minutes. I will stick with hardware.

About ten years ago, after using relays, transistors, timers and other parts to make things move in sequence I bought my kid a Basic Stamp. Then I bought one for myself and started to study.

Today I am building industrial robots and am able to monitor them from hundreds of miles away!!! All with the dreaded computer.

My advice to the beginner would be to learn the hardware first. Make an LED blink with a transistor, capacitor, and resistor first. Play with a 555 timer, hex inverters, op amps and so on. Read yourself to sleep with a Micro Chip data sheet, read every thing you can find, put on some safety glasses and blow a few parts. Try to find out for yourself what does and does not work. If this is more than a hobby work on getting that “piece of paper”.

By the way Melanie, you have not told us how you got started.

[malc-c]

By the way Melanie, you have not told us how you got started.

Dave mate, your a bit late.. she deleted her post as she felt it gave too much personal info... (Visions of her changiing her Porche for a Farrari every 6 months and a different house for each month of the year )