How did you get started .....

[malc-c]

I've always been interested in how things worked and even at a young age of around 10 I was playing with lousdspeakers and wiring up extra speakers to my parents gramaphone !

I left school in '78 and went into an electronics apprenticeship - In 1981 I purchased my first computer, a Sinclair ZX81 (think it was sold under the Texas brand in the US) in kit form... I learnt BASIC (well Sinclairs version to start with) by spending hours typing in the code for games and applications printed in magazines, and then working out how to debug the problem when it wouldn't work due to a typo in the magazine !

I came back into electronics around 5 years ago when I wanted some flashing LEDs for a model helicopter, and ended up discovering the wonderful world of PICs. Put off by not being able to understand or follow Assembly, I opted for programming in BASIC and ended up with PBP as it follows and resembles the BASIC programming language I used with computers.

I still class myself as a novice in PIC programming, and I do agree with the comments about newbies, which is why I only post a plea for help after I've already tried to write my own code and have breadboarded the hardware.. I found that this has earnt me some respect from the seasoned users of PBP and have forged some good frendship from this forum by doing so. Having said that, often pointing a newbie to the datasheet is a waste of time as I still find them printed in a language I don't understand... it could be Klingon for all i care !!

[skimask]

My parents messed up and bought me a Radio Shack 150-in-1 kit back in 5th grade (1979). Played with that for a couple of years, along with tearing other stuff apart to make other stuff not in the book...of course along the way, I didn't know that I didn't know what I was doing.
Before that I was always drawing stuff out on paper...go-karts, airplanes, trying to build soap-box-derby cars. No money at the time, too young to care about the future, etc.

Summer of '81, relatives bought me a Tandy MC-10 (6803 CPU if I remember right). Learned how to program that, tried to run other stuff off the cassette port motor relay (not knowing that I could burned out the board on the MC-10).

Got to 7th grade and discovered the Apple II, II+, IIe series of computers. Learned how to program them... walked around school with these huge ARRL books under my arm trying to learn electronics...but again, no money to buy stuff and play around. Then I discovered the Tandy Color Computer II. Learned to program that in Basic as well as assembly (anyone remember EDTASM+?). Tried to build an extender card to run some of the signals out of it so I could play around. Burned up that system board. Got another CoCo2, max'd it out on options (including the whole DS9 (?) operating system,etc.) and decided since I burned up the previous board, I'd concentrate on programming. Stayed with both Apple and CoCo basic and assembly until I graduated high school. Joined the military, got trained in aircraft avionics, although I didn't learn anything in tech school because I had already read all about it in books during the previous 6 or so years.
Got stuck in a rut of drawing stuff on paper, wishing, dreaming, etc, until '98. I finally had 'spending money' and I finally bought my first 'real' PC (Windows 98/98SE/ME, etc, Celeron 300->450, etc. with all of the goodies at the time, 2x Voodoo2 cards SLI'd, huge 40GB drives, 20x CD, etc).
And about 3 months after spending that $3000 on the latest and greatest PC stuff, I bought a Warp13a programmer, a few PICs, PicBasicPro, some breadboarding supplies, generic pieces/parts, etc. and started on my MP3 player project. I jumped right in, bought all of the parts to build the player with the intent on building a player and only a player. I didn't do the blinky light thing specifically...well, I did, but it was more of a consequence of not being able to get anything to work and figuring out that I had to start slow and work my way up.
Which is exactly what I tell the nubs' that show up here wondering why their latest combination toaster/oven/converter/spacecraft/player/television doesn't want to work and they've only been into PICs and PBP (or electronics) for the last 15 minutes.

Start off slow, blink a light, show your name on an LCD, push a button, a light comes on, read an A/D converter connected to a pot, etc.etc. Jumping in wastes money (about $700 in my case!).

That's my sad sad story...
Oh, and I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't have a single piece of paper in a nice frame on my wall... College-shmollege, what a waste of money... (and I'm sure there's a lot of people in this hobby and on this forum that don't have a degree from the University of Anywhere...rock on!)

[T.Jackson]

Oh, and I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't have a single piece of paper in a nice frame on my wall... College-shmollege, what a waste of money... (and I'm sure there's a lot of people in this hobby and on this forum that don't have a degree from the University of Anywhere...rock on!)

If we all thought like that there would be no professionals in the World. No Doctors, no competent engineers, everything all nice and "slap happy". Great World that would be. The scariest part, you seem quite proud about not having a formal qualification, and you're even encouraging it.

[Acetronics2]

Hi, Jackson

You do not like those lines ... but they're the truth !!!

Teachers only can teach what they hardly could understand ... the problem is here !!!

I had few teachers that learnt me useful things :

1) To be happy to learn ... to read,read,read and read !!!

2) To get off books or lessons and try to understand what really happens ( maths are the tool to SIMULATE the world ... never forget that !!! )

3) That other peole would have done things THEIR WAY ...and not mine,wich is, of course, totally stupid.

4) To listen and not hear what others say ...

5) There are always many solutions for a problem ... that depend upon the day,the hour,people around you,amount of coffee drunk ... etc,etc.

Yes, I can tell what you learn at school or university is a main function of your teacher's intelligence ... not their knowledge.

Alain

Thermics, Thermodynamics and Aérodynamics Engineer ( W/a real State Diploma !!!)
Mechanics, machining (?), and mechanical design sup tech Diploma.
And some little others ...

And who learnt electronics and a little informatics by himself ...

[T.Jackson]

You do not like those lines ... but they're the truth !!!

Teachers only can teach what they hardly could understand ... the problem is here !!!

Yes, I can tell what you learn at school or university is a main function of your teacher's intelligence ... not their knowledge.

What a load of kacka.

[Acetronics2]

What a load of kacka.

Easy answer too ...

The harder the falling ... read you next time with pleasure in a couple of years.

What about building some electronics till then ???

Alain

[malc-c]

Uhmm interesting.. Im sure there was a post here from Mel stating how good her life is having graduated witrh honours.... She probably had so many proposals of marriage after that, that she deleted the post

I'm not going to take sides in the debate over gaining qualifications or not is a good thing. However if you look back several decades the old practice of passing on skills by being a "mate" with a seasoned tradesman was the only way skills were kept going. These days its easy for anyone to spend a bit of time with their nose in a book and then sit an exam and scrape through with a pass and then demand a high paid position, yet in practical terms they have very little experience of the real world.

Like most people of his generation (he is now in his 80's) my father left school with no qualifications, just a basic maths and english. Before he retired he worked for a large drug maunfacture, mainly in the warehouse and could advise anyone who asked exactly the quantity of bottles, even pills that were on the load by working itn out in his head. I remember he told me how "he could do it quicker than any of these kids coming out of university could, and they resorted to calculators".

I admire all those that, like Mel have worked hard studying and are now reaping the rewards, and able to have a lifestyle only some of us can dream of. Its always worth having a qualification that you can fall back on, but I don't think that its right that people like T.Jackson should come down on Skimask so heavily... I don't see him as advocating that people shouldn't go to uni, more that he is proud to be in a position he is in without having to through what others have. I also have no formal IT qualifications, yet I'm holding down a job that pays the average IT salary in the UK and have demonstarted that my experience has out performed the person they previously employed, who had an MCSE !

The answer here is that its all down to the individual

[Acetronics2]

Hi, Malc

I remember this post ...

We were joking about people offering Mel a dinner in town ... without talking Electronics or business !!!

...

Alain

[keithdoxey]

Uhmm interesting.. Im sure there was a post here from Mel stating how good her life is having graduated witrh honours.... She probably had so many proposals of marriage after that, that she deleted the post

I'm glad you saw that as well, I was begining to think I had imagined it !!!

I'm not going to take sides in the debate over gaining qualifications or not is a good thing. However if you look back several decades the old practice of passing on skills by being a "mate" with a seasoned tradesman was the only way skills were kept going.

To a certain extent I think the lack of formal qualifications has a lot to do with age. I left school in 1976 and hardly anyone went to university and the first time I came across a "computer" it was a teletype connected to the mainframe at Norwich City College.

I worked for British Telecom for 29 years including a full apprenticeship but I dont actually have anything on paper. As part of our appenticeship we took a City and Guilds course in Telecommunications which for the first three years included four subjects....

Mathematics
Electrical Principles
Telephony and Telegraphy
Computing

... to pass the exam you had to have Maths, Electical Principles and one of the last two subjects. The final year of the course was day release rather than a 16 week block release and there was only time for three subjects so Computing was dropped as BT (or Post Office Telecommunications as it was then) would only accept a pass in Telephony and Telegraphy. At that point I sort of lost interest especially as it was a 15 hour day including travelling

During the remainder of my time with BT I did loads of internal courses and aquired a great many skills but you dont get bits of paper that have any recognised qualifications on them.

I admire all those that, like Mel have worked hard studying and are now reaping the rewards, and able to have a lifestyle only some of us can dream of. Its always worth having a qualification that you can fall back on, but I don't think that its right that people like T.Jackson should come down on Skimask so heavily... I don't see him as advocating that people shouldn't go to uni, more that he is proud to be in a position he is in without having to through what others have. I also have no formal IT qualifications, yet I'm holding down a job that pays the average IT salary in the UK and have demonstarted that my experience has out performed the person they previously employed, who had an MCSE !

The answer here is that its all down to the individual

I fully agree. I wish I had been born 15-20 years later so that I would have had the opportunity to go to university but it wasnt a common thing to do when I left school. you just got a job with an apprenticeship and stayed there until you retired..... then the world changed !!!

[skimask]

If we all thought like that there would be no professionals in the World. No Doctors, no competent engineers, everything all nice and "slap happy". Great World that would be. The scariest part, you seem quite proud about not having a formal qualification, and you're even encouraging it.

I need to clarify a bit...(and keeping it short, things to do, things to break)
Oh yeah, I'm proud...Proud of the fact that I was able to teach myself...that I didn't have to have another person(s) teach me...that I was able to save all that money for something else...
It's just that I've met a lot of people with degrees of one sort or another that don't know their head from a whole in the ground. I'm sure a lot of people have met those people.
School doesn't teach what's needed to be known, it only teaches a person how to learn.
How many parents do you know that have formal qualification to raise children?
How many people do you know that have any sort of formal qualification to have a computer and have access to the Internet?

I guess in the end, I'm just saying there's a lot of dumbasses with degrees that don't learn anything else when they get out of their happy little University study arena...maybe just a plain lack of common sense in general...

That and the family not having a lot of extra $$$ for college back in those days kinda put a damper on it too...
And where did that post from Mel go?

[BobK]

Hello All,

I have been enjoying reading this particular post. But, you know what gets me? All of the university/college students that are taking the engineering courses and are suppose to be learning and yet they come to this forum, the EDAboard.com, and the other electronics forums looking for assistance with "What should I do for a project?" or "How do I do this?" Of course my real favorite one is "I need to get this done in two days, can you help me?" What the hell are they going to and paying for college for? I like the responses that people like Skimask has been providing-"Show us what you have done so far by providing us with a schematic and code listing so we can assist you."

I personally have nothing in my education to talk about. High school graduate, Army, work to support wife and kids. I do attend alot of job related seminars and technical courses. I get an idea for a project and I sit down and work it out. I have been "playing" with electronics since the 6th grade when my dad brought me an Allied Radio catalog home and I bought and built a shortwave radio kit. I'm 60 now! I am proud of my accomplishments being in the alarm business for over 32 years and that I am respected here in Ohio in my profession. I have given back to my industry by teaching classes for 8 years to new people coming into this profession. I still enjoy passing on my knowledge as in Ohio we have very little regulation with educational requirements for this business.

I feel honored that the main people on this forum are willing to take their time to assist us with our problems. I read this forum twice a day. This is my source of learning! I have noticed over the past 6 months that there are more questions being asked that could have been answered by reading the previous posts and responses and then working their problems out. I guess they don't have much patience. (Remember the medical engineer last year?)

I actually collect these various posts and have them in files on my computer that I refer to when I encounter a problem or get ready to do another project. I have offered my knowledge here several times in the past but it seemed like I was talking to a brick wall so I don't contribute that much anymore (too frustrating) but I am here every day as I enjoy learning. My main area of interest is in dealing with real time clocks and using them to control things.

Well I've got to get back to work. Thanks for the great people on this forum and keep up the great work!

BobK

[Acetronics2]

And where did that post from Mel go?

The Forum was upgraded ... no mail kept from previous dates ...

Alain

[Melanie]

I think they meant Saturdays post Alain - I deleted it. It went a bit too far revealing what on reflection should have been kept private.

The basis of it was this... that a good University Degree (coupled with the fact that the holder of such actually deserves it) is pretty much a passport to earnings which will be in the range of 2x to 20x above the average throughout the whole earnings life of the holder. That alone is worth the few years of sacrifice.

I fully agree that experience also counts. There are many first class engineers, architects, lawyers, whatever, walking the planet that haven't got a piece of paper to their name. But they acquired their knowledge through (in many cases a lifetime of) experience. Like I said in my original posting, I'd rather have the goodies in life when I'm young enough to enjoy them than when my pension cheque is dropping on the doormat, and my Uni Degree was my fast-track in achieving that.

I also fully agree that there are hordes of people with various qualifications (including University Degrees) that don't deserve them. They get found out eventually and end up learning to speak the immortal lines "Do you want fries with that?".

But as I also said previously, if you know your stuff, that little bit of paper will guarantee you earnings that even your local Drugs Baron would be envious of.

[precision]

I started when i was 10 year old (1975), with GWBASIC and small timer 555 based project from Electronics For You.
now i manufacturing loadcell, pressure sensors, LVDTs,torque sensors, and peak hold instruments.

.

[keithdoxey]

The basis of it was this... that a good University Degree (coupled with the fact that the holder of such actually deserves it) is pretty much a passport to earnings which will be in the range of 2x to 20x above the average throughout the whole earnings life of the holder. That alone is worth the few years of sacrifice.

Cant disagree with that and IF I was about to leave school this year instead of 31 years ago I would definately be planning on going to University but as I said in one of my previous posts, it simply wasnt an option for someone leaving Secondary School with CSE's in the mid 70s.

It does seem though that many of the newbies posting are on University courses but dont seem to have any real background in electronics or programming so it makes you wonder why they are on the course that they are.

So far, the people who have replied who have had little or no formal education have indicated that one of their hobbies was electronics whilst still at school. I would imagine that anyone undertaking a university degree in a subject that they dont appear to have had any prior interest in is making life even more difficult for themselves