18F2431 won't program or erase.

[HenrikOlsson]

Hi Keith,
Sorry to hear it's not working for you. I'm using the latest version of MPLAB, v7.42 and the PICStart version is 4.40.01. Do you get the same result as before, even with the resistor/cap? Still can't even erase/blank check it?

Is it on a 2431 or are you trying with the 4431?

When I flashed the 2431 with the MicroCodeLoader .hex file I had to change the config for the brown out voltage. Apparently the BOD was set to on but the trip voltage wasn't specified so it complained about that. Other than that it programed and verified without further problems.

I've searched the docs further but beyond the resistor and/or cap "solution" I haven't found anything. It'll be interesting to here what Microchip says.

/Henrik Olsson.

[keithdoxey]

Sorry to hear it's not working for you. I'm using the latest version of MPLAB, v7.42 and the PICStart version is 4.40.01.

OK. Will download 7.42 and see if that makes a difference

Do you get the same result as before, even with the resistor/cap? Still can't even erase/blank check it?

Everything is identical to the initial attempt at programming. Havent tried to Erase/Blank check. Just tried programming. Will also try that

Is it on a 2431 or are you trying with the 4431?

Both, and multiple devices

When I flashed the 2431 with the MicroCodeLoader .hex file I had to change the config for the brown out voltage. Apparently the BOD was set to on but the trip voltage wasn't specified so it complained about that. Other than that it programed and verified without further problems.

Yes, I got those messages as well. I initially DISABLED BOD with no success, then I tried leaving it enabled but setting the voltage to 4.2V still no success.

I've searched the docs further but beyond the resistor and/or cap "solution" I haven't found anything. It'll be interesting to here what Microchip says.

I spent a long time googling and searching the mchip forum to no avail.

The only reason I have those chips is because I want them for the QEI interface and now my project has hit another delay just because I cant get the bootloader files into the bloody chips

You have now caused me untold grief as I was blissfully unaware of the problem until you suffered from it !! I'm not really blaming you though as I would have hit this problem anyway, its just annoying that both you and Steve have got it to work and I cant

[keithdoxey]

Hi All,

just got the following reply from Microchip....

Could you please try out the following when you receive the message:
"Program Memory or EEPROM Data is protected. Reprogram the entire part. If Auto select memory areas and range on the Memory Ranges tab of the programmer settings
is enabled, it must be disabled before proceeding.."

Proceed to Programmer Menu -> Settings
There deselect ( don't select) Auto Memory Areas and Range.
Manually enter memory areas and range as follows:
Program Memory Start Address : 0
Program Memory End Address : 3fff
Select Program Memory
Select Configuration Bits
Select ID Locations
Select EEPROM Data
Select Erase All Before Program

Then try programming. Programming will take a while since the entire memory range is being programmed.

In addition try out the following:
Short the Vdd and AVdd pins of the microcontroller. Also separately short the Vss and AVss pins of the microcontroller. Now connect the capacitor between Vdd and Vss pins.
Ensure that the capacitor that you're connecting between Vdd and Vss is a low ESR capacitor such as tantalum. Start with 0.1uF value and if programming failures still arise, try increasing this value incrementally to a maximum of 10uF.

Will give that a try this evening to see if I get any success.

[mister_e]

I also used MPLAB 7.42 and PicStart 4.40.01 to make i work.

But forget the ZIFF socket and place it on a board normally, load the PGM pin to gnd (via 1-10K resistor) and use ICSP... it will work.

i had this reply from Microchip... but as it wasn't the solution i decided to not post it before.

Thank you for contacting microchip's technical support.

We suggest to make sure the following points to program the PIC18F2431 with picstart plus programmer:

PIC18F8F2431which have power supply (Vdd and AVdd) and ground (Vss and AVss), all pins must be used in order to program.

Devices require that a 0.1uF bypass capacitor be placed from the VDD pin to the VSS pin of the device to successfully program the device.
If programming failures still arise, try increasing this value incrementally to a maximum of 10uF. A low ESR capacitor such as a tantalum

Looking forward to your response.

Woooohoooo! it's just weird that i didn't get the same answer as Keith.

Anyways, ICSP work a treat.

[HenrikOlsson]

Hi Steve,
Could you perhaps explain how you do ICSP with the PicStart? Do you run wires from the ZIF socket or what? I've never done it myself and the other day I recieved some flyers from Microship in the mail, one of them had a table showing the various programmers features and according to that the PICStartPlus didn't support ICSP.

If you would I'd appreciate a quick tutorial on how you do it, what pins, resistors etc? I don't think I'll use in place of a bootloader on the chips that supports it but on the smaller ones it would be great not to have to swap the chip back and forth between the circuit and the PicStart.

Thank you in advance!
/Henrik.

[keithdoxey]

HOORAY !!!!!

I have programmed all my 18F2431s and 18F4431s

Here is my response to Microchip support.

Thanks for the suggestions.

I had already tried connecting AVdd to Vdd and AVss to Vss as I noticed that they had slightly different voltages on them (5.01 and 4.97) but that didnt make any difference.

I attempted the "manual" method you suggested but didnt have the option of "Erase all before program" (MPLAB 7.30)

I then upgraded to MPLAB 7.42 and still didnt have any luck with the 2431 so I went to the 4431. Again these failed to program. A blank check revealed that they werent blank and attempts to erase the devices failed. I removed the 2.2uF capacitor and successfully erased it. I then discovered that I could now program these WITHOUT needing the capacitor.

I returned to the 2431 WITHOUT a capacitor but WITH a 1K resistor between pins 7 and 11 as that had been succesful for others on the PBP forum, SUCCESS

It would appear that the root of my problem was MPLAB 7.30 as I couldnt program 4431s either. I do need the AVdd connection to program 2431s but since upgrading to MPLAB7.42 the problem seems to be sorted.

Regards

Keith

Note to Steve: I too would appreciate a tutorial on ICSP with Picstart as it is something I have never tried. Having said that, all the PICs I use now have bootloaders but I think it would be a useful to know.

[mister_e]

OK, it's really easy.

1. You need to read your datasheet to find those MCLR, PGD, PGC and Vss pins.

2. place some jumper from the PICSTART ZIFF on the pins# you find and send them on the same pins on your PIC

3. Once the PIC is programmed, just remove the wires.

Not much. The only Extra hardware you have to add, is a 10k resistor+whatever diode on the MCLR pin. If the PGM pin of your PIC is already loaded with something it will work case not, just place a pull-down resistor on it. 10K work great

well it's a variant of something like the following taken on the melabs website...
<img src="http://melabs.com/images/icsp1.gif">

Source and more explanation here

in the past i did few adapter using some 40pins DIP socket. you make 1 of each different pic size (8,18,28,40, etc)

Also handy to use something like...
<img src="http://www.picbasic.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=163&d=1104851398">

if you want to avoid this 'plug/deplug' dance.

Have fun!