ok double checked the hardware on the pc side, its a pl2303/usb cable, as my laptop nhas no com: ports.

if i short pins 2/3 then i see what i type, so the hardware to that point is working.

i then plug this into my dev board, which has a max232 on it, this is connected to the PIC via a dip switch on rc6/rc7. if i disconnect it from the pic with the switches and then short these, i see what i type again, so the max 232 is working both ways...

I flip the switches and reconnect to the pic, and i get garbage on screen, about once a second, and the chr counter advances by 3, so its almost right, but not quite........