Transformerless Power Suppply

[dhouston]

I suggest you actually take the time to read the URLs I cited.

We've had polarized plugs and wall sockets from even before the time the 3-wire system was implemented. I live in a 60+ year old building that predates the 3-wire system and all of the wall outlets are polarized. My memory is a bit fuzzy but I believe the 3-wire system was required from about 1960.

If you have non-polarized plugs and sockets they are likely be for IEC Class II use which you might have grasped had you bothered to read the URLs I cited.

Transformerless power supplies have been used by X-10 in their plug-in modules (some 3-wire, some 2-wire, all polarized) and switches since 1976 or so.

[Melanie]

We'll have to disagree on this one. However I've not killed anybody yet (on the basis it's bad for business) and my designs are used internationally - many with UL certification, so either I'm lucky or I must be doing something right. *smiles*

[Luciano]

Hi,

Ground Fault Circuit Interrupters (GFCI)

A GFCI will trip under a shorted Neutral-Ground condition even
if no load is connected to the circuit -- that is, no load
other than the short between neutral and ground.

Here in Italy the GFCI will trip because of this fuse between
neutral and ground. (See figure 3 and 4 Microchip TB008).



Best regards,

Luciano

[dhouston]

The circuit shown is probably not intended to be plugged into a CFGI nor into any power grid other than in North America.

Here, ground and neutral are not necessarily at the same potential. Recent changes in the National Electric Code call for the ground lead to connect to the center-tap of the utility transformer and for neutral to connect to earth ground at the entrance panel.

I haven't said that fuse should be used in the UK or Europe nor have I, in any way, been critical of Melanie's design skills.

[Luciano]

Here, ground and neutral are not necessarily at the same potential.

The fuse will like that!

Best regards,

Luciano

[Melanie]

Actually Dave you quoted me as "both inaccurate and dangerous".

I challenge that.

I don't care what part of the world you're in, the Fuse in Figure 3 of TB008 is a complete waste of time, offering NO protection - let's repeat that in case anyone missed it first time around - offering NO protection to the User of that circuit. If that Fuse is in or out, the circuit will be LIVE. Microchip have dropped a bollock on this one - so let's direct the "inaccurate and dangerous" where it's needed - the author of TB008.

[Pic_User]

Hi All,

There seems to be a great deal of confusion among hobbyists and new professionals concerning ground and circuit ground.

I stopped calling the “common” connections in electrical / electronic circuits, “ground”, 30 years ago. Most of us, have worked out the dual meaning of ground. On one hand we actually mean earth ground, next we simply mean a common connection in our circuit.

This dual meaning is okay most of the time, but sometimes it causes misunderstandings and even dangerous situations. Transformerless power supplies are a common battle ground for the semantics of the term, “ground”. This is because, the misunderstandings lead to safety problems. Problems that cannot be ignored.

Melanie, as usual is the voice of reason and spot on. The TB008 application note, is right out of the twilight zone. The author, obviously has some confusion about “ground” and “common”.

I post this diagram to help illustrate what Melanie already pointed out.

[sayzer]

...offering NO protection to the User of that circuit. If that Fuse is in or out, the circuit will be LIVE...

In this case, the circuit will protect itself but kill the user !


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