using AND as an IF statement

[mramos]

They would probably get a lot more PIC programmers that want to do quicker small projects and even Stamp I people to get PBC if word was out that it had a current basic IF ELSE ENDIF to make programming cleaner and easier. Two new groups. Heck a Stamp II person might go, I will I will try the PIC chips.

It is just like Bart said it is sad. What is also sad nothing has been brought up about maybe until now? It has been around for years. Maybe that will be an enhancement in the next PBC, not because a couple people spoke up about it, but the new customers they could attract. There are probably more pic programmer out there that Stamp programmers, or close. I can program in assembler, but I really like BASIC, it is one everything electronic I have, down to my Treo 650 cellphone (and yep, has IF ELSE ENDIF).

If you want to get more non-Stamp programmers (I have never touched a Stamp and would never have thought this was normal, but do see their ads).

I was looking for a BASIC compiler for the PIC? I bought it in 1996 and never used it, Went the Atmel way. It is a new market for them for sure. Just because Parallax missed the boat, no reason for a good compiler to miss it as well. Just silly.

I bought it because it was a basic compiler for the PIC micro and I was going to try the new PICS (I still had 16C84 and 12C508 stored away), I usually use Atmel. I see this is a serious missing command for good code writing. I actually told someone a coulpe days ago to learn assembler (and he has start and doing pretty good) because otherwise he would have to spend $250 for a compiler to do/learn what he wants. This was after I received mine and went what the heck... I told him it was missing IF ENDIF, and told him I have PBC and would make it work, but could only recommend PBP for a beginner (does that not sound backwards). And he choose assembler on his own with other asm people mailing him too. And I went on about basic to him for days..

BTW, thanks for the history, I see why it is weird like that now. It is too bad they did not fix it, so they would have better product and be more like what BASIC programmers 1990s and 2000s and not BASIC Stamp programmers use. I would use it a lot if it worked like all the basic compilers I use. Hahaha.

[bartman]

Adam,

Thanks for that bit of history. From that standpoint I see how it got to where it got. Since I have never used Basic Stamp and came straight through to PBC Basic to me it should still be Basic with these common commands.

While I acknowledge the manual where it talks about Basic Stamp and how/what changes to make for PBC I never got the idea that PBC was the off-shoot of Basic Stamp. I read it to imply that PBC was something new and Basic Stamp users might want to make the jump for reasons A,B and C. I assumed, which I acknowledge is never a good idea, this "better" system brought a larger command set along with it hence another reason why the Stamp people would want to migrate to PBC.

I still believe the full IF...THEN...ELSE...ENDIF command set should be included in PBC to make it more useful for new users. The pro version has a lot of bells and whistles that most hobbyists will never touch, but have to pay for to get some nice basic commands. Not everyone is doing this to make money so coming up with money for the pro version is a big deal for a little hobby.

Bart

[ErnieM]

Just how much would you be willing to pay for these features?

There still ain't no such thing as a free lunch. Perhaps if there is enough interest a semi-pro version (with a few more features such as IF-THEN-ELSE) could be possible.

However, if I ran the company, I'd stay with my two products and my 2 price points. A professional doesn't mind the price for pro (I sure didn't), and the hobbist gets a nice package that does indeed have some very fine features.


Should a hobbist desire more power.... is there an uipgrade option, or just a re-purchase?

[mramos]

I do not see IF ELSE ENDIF in a programming language a feature. They all have it that I use.

I would gladly pay $25 for an upgrade or shoot $50 so I will use it. Every compiler I have is $99 or less, except Power Basic CC and Power Basic Windows, they are major Windows 32bit program that have to deal with Microsofts contact changes and with major libraries and APIs, not like a 32 command plus PIC compiler, and they were $199 each.

I own BASIC for Atmel (RVKBASIC), Unix (Linux and BSD), Mac OSX, PC/Windows and DOS (3 of them DOS, DOS32 bit and Windows 32bit), Palm, Motorola platform phones, and sure other I can not think of at the moment. Like I said, I love BASIC. I like PBC except for what I think it is a serious flaw for MEL and it PBC users now and future.

And all listed above have IF ELSE ENDIF of course, that is BASIC. No I did not own a Basic Stamp. Never will. Don't need it with better tools out there.

Funny how one points out something missing in what I think is a good product (this would make it great for the entry level product) and all of a sudden you are (by some people that do not see your point or own the PRO ersion) a bad guy, or someone that wants something for free, or are a professional tring to get something cheap.. Too funny.

Nope. Just want to write proper basic code for the pic chip, that is all.

C, pascal, BASIC, perl, pyton, ruby. Well I can stop, all programs I am aware of today (Since early 1990's that did not have line numbers) on any platform have if else endif.

[bartman]

I would say $0.00 simply because the ELSE and ENDIF should be considered part of the IF...THEN command set in the first place IMO.

While I understand the logic regarding the evolution from Basic Stamp the ability was there to complete that command set in PBC from the beginning and I feel it should have been at that time.

In a way leaving them out is like admitting they are important commands to complete that command set because they do appear in PBP. If they weren't important why not just leave them out of PBP as well? And if they really don't make much of a difference because they can be worked around then why not include them just to save everyone a little work and make for better programming? Afterall, there is always a work around right?

PBP has a ton of features not found in PBC that warrant the price of it. I don't think finishing the IF...THEN command set in PBC is a crazy request.

Bart

[mramos]

Good point Bart.

First, I was only willing to pay to make something that does not work for me, work. And I feel I would not have any other choice otherwise.. Hummm.. That sounds fishy.. And if they are happy with it incomplete like that, it is not up to me. I know I would be happy, Bart would too, and other that own it, and future PIC (not STAMP) people too. Wonder how many gave up do to that little confussion for a non-programmer tring to learn.. Imagine they learn and they by PBP since they have not given up..

Funny, most people that would say it is not a problem also bought PBP. And they are not dealing with it. I do not need PBP, I need IF ELSE ENDIF, not worth $150 more for what should be in BASIC of any kind, or C or PASCAL, or any other compiler. Anyway, they must have needed it too. Or maybe the people doing the ELSE1 and ENDIF1 did not buy PBP and really writing code like that to date. They can do that if they like, but I feel that is extra work for me. No offense to the people that still are, that was not meant to be mean. I just will believe you bought PBP or can really do code that way. And that is fine if you are comfortable with it, it is just not for me. I just do not want to sit and track the count on the else and endif labels. I want clean code weather standard, medium, pro, super advanced.

Why would I buy the PBC to make things a pain and not structured? If I want a pain, I can get C for free (and it has IF ELSE ENDIF).. You like C use C, you like BASIC, use BASIC. I do not like C, I like BASIC. This to me is a broken BASIC with this one issue. What is so hard to see I need no more than PBC to do my work, but I need a proper IF ELSE ENDIF like all the other compilers I have used for the last 15+ years. Not being mean, tring to make a point.
When the line numbers left, the ELSE ENDIF was there and made BASIC a real language. Lack of PortA etc. Not a problem, I have symbol to add them, I can "symbol PortA = 5". So that I can work with, because it is available in the PBC. But I can not add ELSE ENDIF. I have to reverse my logical thinking (at least what I call logical in my head).

And to say work around. Work around what, the fact it is incomplete? That is what you are saying. I need a structured language.

Final note. I am not looking to argue, just tring to get a complete program for me and others. I mean this all in the nicest way.. We really should be mailing MEL I guess. It does no good here as proven.

[Ron Marcus]

Talk directly to MEL. I thought PBP was/is reasonable for what it contains. It has been quite a lucrative tool for my company. As I was told,"if you don't like the cruise...Don't complain to the other passengers." Or find a better boat.

Ron