using AND as an IF statement

[mister_e]

I'm pretty sure many user will learn a big deal of the previous... but we really don't need that kind of post, neither that kind of user.

If AVR is the best one for you... use it

If other forum have much traffic and your pleased with them... go ahead.

Usually when i buy something, i read the specs. It all white on black in the Melabs website. There's also comparison between their PBC and PBP.

If you'd never spend time to read it before... too bad. Buying an PBC to PBP upgrade will give you what you don't have in PBC.

BTW, compiler battle is a common and endless story. Same in C language, in Pascal, in Basic, in.., in... in their respective forums.

Seems kids need it... seems testosterone need to get out sometimes.

Good luck!

[Melanie]

No mramos, your post won't be removed - because everyone is entitled to their opinions and yours are as respected here as everyone elses provided correct decorum is observed.

It is naive to say that company X has better chips than company Y. Atmel has a better price/performance point over Microchip is some areas, in others Microchip is the winner. It is dependant on your application.

Forums with 'lots of traffic' could also indicate problems with the product. The biggest issue with PICBasic is folks don't read manuals or Datasheets or know electronic basics. Remove those kind of posts and there really would be no need for this forum at all!

Likewise PICBasic is aimed at a price point. You saw (or should have) what it's specification was before you bought it. MeLabs make no secret of PBC's capabilities and it should not be a surprise when it dropped through your letterbox. The manual is freely downloadable and you should have noticed it doesn't have features like LCDOUT, although it doesn't stop you from interfacing an LCD - it's just more troublesome. If you are a professional where time is money, then you should have bought the PRO, because you will have recouped your additional outlay with the very first project.

On the other hand, if you have a bottom-end product that is 'complete', there's really no incentive to buy the PRO version is there? So you effectively kill the sales of a product that pays the Mortgage in exchange for a product that barely keeps you fed. Selling microcontroller compilers isn't exactly a mass-market "every home must have one" product.

I also have a product which is designed in a BASIC and a PRO version. The BASIC is exactly the same as the PRO but has all the good bits removed. Salesmen come back every day moaning that they want the features of the $3,000 product in the $900 product - and the answer is NO. If the customers want those features, then they have to buy the $3,000 product - it's what puts the jam on the bread and butter.

[mramos]

Melanie,

I EDITED the previous post, at least someone that runs the board saw it.

And it was accurate, but that post will probably not change the issue just get flames from a few that probably own PNP. If MEL sold more compilers, there would be a lot more people here, and not all with the same problem.

I would think, BASIC standard would be the basic compiler to learn to program ming properly with basic, and pro would allow one to expand into commercial products (added peripheral support). Which people that learned the standard would surely move into PBP once they learn. $250 is a big drop for a college student or someone looking for a hobby, so they would try the $99 program first. As a programmer, I was sortta like, how will people learn, have to invert logic to GOTO a routing. In a manual that says avoid using GOTOs, OK use THEN (that is a goto)

It is hard to know what it does until you get it and try it. I was disappointed.
I will use it for very small projects.

Atmel is a better chip (speed and price wise), and coming from a $45 RVKBASIC to PBASIC, well, what can I say... I left Atmel as they did not support the Tiny11 and I had a bunch of them (it required high voltage serial programming). But now I have a bunch of 12F509s I can not use as well as PBASIC does not do them. My logic, if does the 628A, surly it was the 508/509. I should have read more. But MPLAB and PIC assembler is not all that hard, so I will use the chips.

I will give PBASIC more time, but I think MEL is missing a big market.

[Melanie]

No, you should have left your post as it was. Your opinion and point of view is as valid as mine or anyone elses.

I don't run the board... I'm nothing to do with MeLabs, or Crownhill (the nice folks who own the board), or Microchip, I'm just like you... but for my sins (which are many) and sarcasm (available in abundance) I have been awarded the God-like power of Administrator...

Criticism is always good - as long as it is just. And I agree with your previolus comments on the limitations of PBC. I don't agree that you or others were tricked in any way into buying a $99 product because it clearly does everything that it is advertised that it can do. You can't go and buy a bottom-end Mercedes A10 and then complain it hasn't got the features and performance of a Mercedes 300SLK Turbo - yet both carry the same badge on the front.

[bartman]

FWIW,

The lack of IF...THEN...ELSE...ENDIF in PBC is the most frustrating of all to be missing. I knew they weren't there when I bought and I knew for what I was doing at the time I could live without them, but the project would have came together easier with them.

This is the only set of commands I really missed from PBC and because they are so useful I couldn't help but feel the package was a bit crippled without them. I think they should be there IMO to move PBC from "usable" to "useful".

I've since switched to PBP so I could avoid having to work around what was missing. PBP is probably overkill for my use and PBC is underpowered, but there is no middle ground with their product. I don't care to make a switch to another product now that I am where I am, but I do understand the frustration level with PBC missing some key commands.

Bart

[mramos]

You can't go and buy a bottom-end Mercedes A10 and then complain it hasn't got the features and performance of a Mercedes 300SLK Turbo - yet both carry the same badge on the front.

BASIC has had "if endif" in all that I have used since 1981 (excluding GWBASIC/BASIC) , on many platforms and OSs (uC to PC, Unix, MAC, etc).

Far as the car (if a car was basic), I agree, but I need four tires, motor, steering wheel, transmission. "IF ENDIF" to me is part of basic (and be part of a writing basic code) and good programming practice. My thought is give up the i2C for ENDIF for the beginners. If they are buying devices like 12c and LCDs they should then spend some money on the PRO version.

My plan was to port all my Atmel RVKBASIC programs to PBASIC. Without the proper conditional form of IF ENDIF, it would take some time. I have cancelled that plan for now.

I would rather see clean (readable) code. I did not think I was tricked, the more I read, the more I think they are after the Parallax people. That is fine, but it woud make the standard basic more like a standard basic IMHO.

I will pop in, I love to help people, I have good status (like yours) on some of the EE forums. Sadly, I feel I am now forced now spend even more for something that I think should be in there and out the cash for the standard.

I can make an include a 16628.inc with the ports defined and others defines for the values I need to drop in the registers, that will not be an issues, I hope it has an include function in the standard... And I will make it work for future projects. And MEL did tell me a trick to solve the lack of support for certain older pics. So I am good. Just not porting all my stuff to PICS, too much work.

Oh yea, in that post I edited, I did remove what I think the fellow meant in his original post. Sorry. He had a typo.

Anyway, thanks for your input.

[mramos]

Bartman, thanks for understanding my point.. I feel the same way, that a basic command is "crippled" that should not be. The rest of it, I will work around.

To have clean code (easy to understand, is that not why we like BASIC). It is needed.

If I want to GOTO (jump all over) ASM has GOTO. hehehe.. The manual even
starts walking about GOTOs all over.

And the help files in the IDE should be broke up for better understanding.

Again, my thoughts.

[paul borgmeier]

...that a basic command is "crippled" that should not be. ...

It's not actually crippled, it is just not developed. MELabs put less work into it, they charge less for it. As you noted, it is much closer to ASM than it is to BASIC.

Much like ErnieM's #2 and I am sure others, here is what I did in the past. It is not quite as clean as the PBP version but is quite readable nonetheless (one extra goto per if-then)

;in PBP

If X = 5 then
x = 5
y = 6
z = 7
Else
x = 7
y = 0
z = 6
Endif

;in PBC

If X<>5 then Else1
x=5
y=6
z=7
goto EndIf1
Else1:
x=7
y=0
z=6
EndIf1:


for the next If-Then, use Else2, Endif2, etc.


Paul Borgmeier
Salt Lake City, Utah
USA