So, what are people using for CHEAP ICSP programmers these days?

[mpgmike]

I had a project that lived in an electrically noisy environment. Prior to that I used 10k pull-ups on MCLR in addition to the internal WPU. It kept RESETting randomly. I swapped the 10k to a 4.7k and the random RESETs went away. That pull-up is pretty important. It not only serves as a pull-up to VDD, but also a pull-down to VDD to counter noise & spikes in the power supply. If MCLR goes low, it RESETs. If MCLR goes high (>VDD), it goes into Programming Mode. Both can cause issues.

[tumbleweed]

If it still doesn't work perhaps I will purchase one again and try to be more careful...

Are you sure you're blowing up the programmer and not just setting the chips in such a way that the programmer can no longer access them in circuit?

In addition to MCLR/VPP, do you have a connection from VDD of your board to the PK3?

[Ioannis]

I had a project that lived in an electrically noisy environment. Prior to that I used 10k pull-ups on MCLR in addition to the internal WPU. It kept RESETting randomly. I swapped the 10k to a 4.7k and the random RESETs went away. That pull-up is pretty important. It not only serves as a pull-up to VDD, but also a pull-down to VDD to counter noise & spikes in the power supply. If MCLR goes low, it RESETs. If MCLR goes high (>VDD), it goes into Programming Mode. Both can cause issues.

A cap from MCLR to ground is also necessary to kill the spikes.

But if the pin can be programmed as I/O then these problems are minimised.

Ioannis

[HenrikOlsson]

A cap from MCLR to ground is also necessary to kill the spikes.

I'd probably say that it depends. On the chip used...and the application...and the circumstances and...

I mean, for the MCLR part of the circuit the capacitor might help (or at least not make it worse if it's not too big) but for the ICSP part of the circuit the capacitor will slow down the risetime of the applied Vpp which may prevent the chip from entering programming mode.

Some designs I've seen use the typical resistor/capacitor circuit with the RC-junction connected to MCLR thru a small signal diode so that the ICSProgrammer doesn't "see" the capacitor. Personally, I've never used that and I generally don't put a cap on MCLR. I have boards that have been running in an industrial application (welding automation so quite noisy environment) for 10 years now (using 18F2431) with just a 10k pullup on MCLR-pin. Perhaps I'm lucky.

/Henrik.

[TrueMetalGeek]

A cap from MCLR to ground is also necessary to kill the spikes.

But if the pin can be programmed as I/O then these problems are minimised.

Ioannis

I've been using the KIT 149 since about the beginning of my PIC tinkering.
Within the MICROBURN software I have simply always turned off MCLRE so i can have it as an input.
Of course that may be different when using the PICKIT 3

I am still not exactly sure how to turn MCLRE off when I was using it in Microcode studio. I've seen some defines or configs or something posted in other's people's codes but I'm not sure what works

[TrueMetalGeek]

Well I did get it working again.
Slapped in a PIC and added thew VPP/MCLR pull up resistor.
Using the CLK/DAT for outputs was not an issue after all.

I think I was doing it wrong since the beginning (no pull up on the VPP line) and I just got lucky on some early uses and then it would not work.

[CuriousOne]

I got same issue.
Using PicKit 3 (Both clone and genuine, found zero difference in operation).
But got into trouble- got a tray of PIC18F45K80 for cheap, just to find out that PicKit3 standalone software does not support this MCU (Only PIC18F45K20 is supported).
So is there any kind of software upgrade, or need to get whole new programmer?

[CuriousOne]

This Pickit3plus software looks promising
but too bad they don't have demo/trial download option...

[tumbleweed]

There's pickitminus. It works with PK2 and PK3. http://www.picbasic.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=24700
It's not quite as up to date as pickit+, but it's free.

[Ioannis]

... just to find out that PicKit3 standalone software does not support this MCU ....

Which standalone? PickitPlus or other? If it is PickitPlus, then Evan is very helpful and may add this device for you.

Ioannis

[mpgmike]

As far as older programmers, the newer PIC offerings cannot be programmed with the older PICKit2/PICKit3 programmers. There is a cut-off. Microchip is currently only supporting PICKit4, ICD4, and Snap.