MCS is Crashing

[mark_s]

Just a quick scan through the error list and this sticks out "Faulting module name: ntdll.dll." A quick Google of "ntdll.dll" and found this, along with a lot of other hits.

https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-fix-...errors-2624474

Maybe a solution?

[Scampy]

NTDLL.DLL is a windows system file containing library data for the core windows kernel. This would suggest that the issue is more likely a conflict between it and other system files rather than MSC itself crashing. Typical suspects are driver files, with prim suspects being graphics drivers. ATI and NVidia both have been know to have drivers that can cause this issue (as I stated in you other thread).

Often ensuring that your system is as up to day as possible is recommend, however I have found that on the odd occasion using an older driver, such as the one supplied with the graphics card has resolved a similar issue. Other possible causes can be a corrupt registry, but only a totally clean re-install on a freshly low level formatted drive will resolve that, but is often the last resort.

If you have access to another machine, try installing MCS etc and see if the issue is easily replicated. Unless the two machines use identical components I doubt that the problem will occur

[HenrikOlsson]

NTDLL.DLL is a windows system file containing library data for the core windows kernel. This would suggest that the issue is more likely a conflict between it and other system files rather than MSC itself crashing

If it's conflict between ntdll.dll and other system files then why is MCS the only program crashing with that particular error message? Do you believe MCS is the only program using a particular function exported by ntdll.dll?

MCS is the only program I've seen do this and it's done it to me hundreds of times on 3 different computers, it's done it to many other users as well yet the notion that it's got nothing to do with MCS keeps comming back.

The enduser (me) doesn't really care if the actual error is in the MCS source or in any of the supporting files MCS is using, it's MCS that crashes. If it does that due to a bug in MCS code itself or the way it calls some library function or an actual bug IN that library it ought to be in the developers interest to fix it but but he's already got my money and doesn't seem to care that much despite multiple threads and reports for YEARS. And MeLabs claims they can't do anything about it since they're not the developers, handy isn't it?

[richard]

And MeLabs claims they can't do anything about it since they're not the developers

they however could have spent some resources getting mplabx integration sorted , with proper language syntax plugin and source level
debugging .
I would have paid twice the 3.1 upgrade price just for that, there is little point in supporting newer chips when common "command line"
programmers can't program them . also the new chips with pin select modules can't take advantage of the "microchip code configurator "
without mplabx

still dreaming

[HenrikOlsson]

Indeed, so would I.

They tout PBP as a professional-level development tool and I can't really say anything bad about the compiler itself but the supporting / surounding stuff does leave a lot to desire. We're way past writing programs in Notepad, compiling from the commandline, loading the hex file into MPLAB and programming with the PICStart+

Proper and seamless integration into MPLABX is what's needed for the advanced users. After seeing Charles video a month or so ago I was able to compile a program within MPLAB but wasn't even able to set a breakpoint.

[richard]

you need to go back to mplabx 2.35 or earlier for breakpoints to be placed easily, but then I can't use my 16f1619

[picster]

NTDLL.DLL is a windows system file containing library data for the core windows kernel. This would suggest that the issue is more likely a conflict between it and other system files rather than MSC itself crashing. Typical suspects are driver files, with prim suspects being graphics drivers. ATI and NVidia both have been know to have drivers that can cause this issue (as I stated in you other thread).

Often ensuring that your system is as up to day as possible is recommend, however I have found that on the odd occasion using an older driver, such as the one supplied with the graphics card has resolved a similar issue. Other possible causes can be a corrupt registry, but only a totally clean re-install on a freshly low level formatted drive will resolve that, but is often the last resort.

If you have access to another machine, try installing MCS etc and see if the issue is easily replicated. Unless the two machines use identical components I doubt that the problem will occur

This isn't directed at you Scampy, but it's an acknowledgement of a lot of wasted time and effort, caused by ONE program that the developer isn't fixing.

The problem has occurred on 3 of 3 machines of mine, different graphics card, ALWAYS while running MCS and ALWAYS while typing comments. No other programs are crashing with this error. I repeat for clarity, NO other programs are crashing with this error, my system is rock solid stable otherwise. Seeing as MCS is always the offending (crashing) party, I would thing the manufacturer would be held somewhat accountable. I know there is a number of users who have reported this issue, and are met with frustration and denial "it's peculiar to your system" - "and yours" "and yours". More than one (I have THREE) means it's not a single system. More than one operating system means the same. It all points to MCS being the uncooperative player, since nothing else is crashing, all the other kids "play nicely together".

There is no guarantee that any of the "fixes" noted will work, when this isn't a windows problem, it's a MCS problem. There is some aspect of it that's doing this or a number of other users and I would all see this same error on OTHER programs on our multiple (non-identical) systems as well. Yet there is NO cooperation from the software developer because they "cannot replicate the problem". Too many of us have it, and there should be some accountability for paid software that not only crashes, but loses our work. That really sucks.

This isn't directed toward any individual - except perhaps the developer - but the whole ostrich thing of "one off" isn't helpful when you are one of a NUMBER of "one-offs" that this is recurring with, and you've tried it on no less than 3 different laptop system configurations with the same results.

[Scampy]

Picster, I can understand your frustration, and again, this is not aimed at anyone personally.

Although I don't have official figures, would have thought that there would be quite a few thousands of PCs with MCS installed and there would be a lot more reported cases if the issue was a bug in their code, and the developers would (hopefully) take notice. But a google search for "microcode studio crashing" or words to that effect doesn't throw up stacks of results (apart from a couple of threads on this forum) suggesting its not as wide spread is thought.

It would be interesting to see if there was any log file that cold be used to see if there are any similarities between those machines or software versions etc, but the variables are so great and it would probably take someone with expertise in programming and computing to analyse. The fact you have had three PCs with different hardware crash and all at the same point of typing comments (which is strange as it's just text, unlike when it registers a word as a command and turns bold) is strange. I've not gone back through the rest of the thread, but does this happen with a certain version of MSC, or PBP. I've been using MCS 4.0.0 with PBP 2.60c on different builds of PC for the passed 7 or so years and can't say I've ever experienced a crash. Maybe the issue is with later versions that were patched in a hurry when PBP3 came out ??

One thing I have noticed is how quiet this forum is these days, which to me suggests that programming in PBP is less popular than it was 5 - 10 years ago, before the likes of the arduino and other similar development systems appearing on the market. Maybe the market has changed and the sales of PBP have dropped off to the extent that it's no longer a viable option for the developers of MSC to fix issues, which in their eyes is not a global bug... Either way I agree that for someone with this issue it sucks.

Is there any alternative to MSC from a different software house as I doubt that you will get anywhere with this.

[HenrikOlsson]

The alternative would be MPLABX but you know, I just payed $50 for the PBP3.1 upgrade but in order to properly use MPLABX one, apparently, has to use a several year old version - in which the chips I payed $50 to get compiler support for aren't available at the assembler level (ie they can't be used). And even when using an older version it apparently can't debug anything but BYTE variables properly without running thru hoops.

As I wrote earlier, the compiler is solid and I love it but the surrounding/supporting stuff quite frankly sucks compared to what's offered elsewhere. It's 2017, we're past the 16F84 and a glorified Notepad. Give me a solid IDE with syntax highlighting, code folding and hardware level debug that works please.

There are several threads with several users reporting the exact same issue and it's been going on for years. I've seen on it several computers as well. I haven't been coding much on my newest machine with W10, it'll be interestning to see if does it there as well.

[picster]

Hi Scampy,

To answer your question regarding versions, it has happened with PBP 2.60x and 3.0 (it's not while compiling so I don't think this is relevant), and with all versions of MCS that I've used since 4 (I don't remember if it was prior to 4).

You're right, it's not as if the parser is processing reserved words and bolding them or coloring them in differently on-the-fly, the entire line is being colored (or at least the portion after the ')

The only thing worse than a bug is an intermittent bug.

[mark_s]

Old story

MCSX started crashing yesterday again. Did not matter which code file I tried to edited, any change in text caused the error message to pop up. I found that you can ignore the message and still compile the code and make changes. Out of frustration, I reinstalled pbp3 and mcsx. That did not help. On this laptop there was an old copy pbp 2.47. So I opened the file in this version without crashing. The only problem was 2.47 did not support my pic. I dug out my 2.60 cd which supports my pic and then patched it with the last update before pbp3. The 2.60 cd had MCS 3.3, now I'm back in business and on this pc done with pbp3/MSCX.

If anybody wants me to run any experiments let me know. Because it can be repeated. It would be nice if MEL could un-marry pbp3 from MCSX and allow the use of older versions of MCS. I am sure there is reason it can't be done.

System is a Gateway laptop, XP, not connected to the net for over 2 years. not sure what changed, other than the date.

[pedja089]

I have problem in one of my programs that didn't handled regional settings well... Try to set all to EN-US.

[Scampy]

Old story

MCSX started crashing yesterday again. Did not matter which code file I tried to edited, any change in text caused the error message to pop up. I found that you can ignore the message and still compile the code and make changes. Out of frustration, I reinstalled pbp3 and mcsx. That did not help. On this laptop there was an old copy pbp 2.47. So I opened the file in this version without crashing. The only problem was 2.47 did not support my pic. I dug out my 2.60 cd which supports my pic and then patched it with the last update before pbp3. The 2.60 cd had MCS 3.3, now I'm back in business and on this pc done with pbp3/MSCX.

If anybody wants me to run any experiments let me know. Because it can be repeated. It would be nice if MEL could un-marry pbp3 from MCSX and allow the use of older versions of MCS. I am sure there is reason it can't be done.

System is a Gateway laptop, XP, not connected to the net for over 2 years. not sure what changed, other than the date.

Mark, that's interesting,

I'm running version 4.0.0.0 of MCS, version 2.60c of PBP and an old version of mpsam suit (5.07 I think) and I've been very lucky as I've never had a crash whilst coding or compiling etc. Yes I know the restrictions this combination has, but for me and the projects I undertake, the supported chipset is fine.

I don't have the needs to upgrade to PBP3 so my input may be irrelevant, but I hope that someone can sort out this issue for those who have had to upgrade in order to remain competitive

Oh and the PC is an AMD 6 core processor running at 3ghz, 12gb DDR3 ram, and windows 7 professional 64bit .... Are those experiencing this issue running windows 7 or later versions... maybe (clutching at straws) it only affects those running windows 8 or 10 ??