have now changed to a 20mhz xtal and i am using a max232 with hserout, with just connecting rx,tx and gnd i am getting the phone to echo back characters!?

but when i tried hserout["atd 453",13,10]
it does nothing

i figured out with the pc connected to the phone it also needs dtr and rts connected together and to one of the pins that supplies 10v

i tried connecting these to the spare output on the max232 and could not even get it to echo stuff back : (

when i connect the pic to the pc with the max232 it works fine and sends the atd 453 command at 9600

i am not using a null modem cable

although i did measure the voltage from the max232 and it was only 7.6v? rather than 10v? i tried changing the caps with no effect

can anyone please help!? : )