Heated Debate... Features and Updates and Things...

[Demon]

I can't believe it. I never thought I'd ever see a representative of one product come onto a forum dedicated to another product and start bashing.

"I have to say after reading these posts for some time now I can only conclude you all must have more time than money. - OXIMBIT"

"For a company to sell this product for so much that offers so little when there are cheaper products that do more for less I think is ......... - OXIMBIT "

"By "more time than money" means your you prepared to spend all that extra time doing workarounds than spending the money on better product. - OXIMBIT"

"As I know a lot about the way Pbpro works and it's weakness I decided to write a little test code to show the differences between my compiler and Pbpro. - OXIMBIT"

I've worked in businesses for over 20 years now, and I have NEVER seen someone stoop low enough to resort to these most unprofessional tactics.

RULE #1 of business etiquette: NEVER put down the competition, it only makes you appear weaker by resorting to childish behavior.

I have no idea what compiler you have, I don't care if it washes the dishes and serves me beer while it writes my code for me. I will NEVER buy anything from a person like you, EVER. You can also be sure that any business contact that asks for a recommendation in MCUs will be sent your quotes above, as well as what I think of PBP Pro.

"As the last post said if every software company froze there development when it was 100% stable we would not even have got to Ada or one of the really early OS's."

So, where is ADA today?

In business, which you obviously know NOTHING about, stability is the cornerstone to continued business. Banks, credit cards, airline companies, hospitals, the list goes on, CANNOT afford to have a compiler that may or may not work as advertised.

Yes, R&D is important, BUT NEVER AT THE CLIENT'S EXPENSE! Develop your compiler properly, get rid of the tons of bugs and come back once you've done your homework properly. All software has bugs, that is a fact of life. But when someone peddles a compiler by putting down the competition, try approaching any large corporation with this marketting strategy and see how far you'll get. Most likely a swift kick where you need it...

PBP is NOT perfect, but when nearly ALL of the reported bugs are in the user's camp, that is a quality product. Read Mister E's reply, they gurus here have direct access to the power's that be. They get QUICK action on the few bugs they report; it doesn't get much better than that.

As for the lack of appearance from 'official' reps, why should they waste their time here? The gurus filter all the junk requests from those that don't read the darn manual (shut up Mr E. :P I didn't see that spec ok?). They also help out all those that misinterpret the manual, that happens, no big deal. They also go out of their way to help those that want to maximize performance and make PBP do things it was not designed to do. All that triage leaves the power's that be time to address the real issues.

If you are a power that be for another product, what are you doing on this forum? Why are you spending your time improving your product? Why aren't you researching even yet MORE ways to skin a cat? Is your compiler already perfect?

And now the important question: what is your compiler? WAIT! Don'T say it here, that might break a 'anti-bashing' rule against other products, so send it by PM or email.

Robert

[Demon]

Then I wish that BOT204's userID be deleted. He's posted a total of 5 times, never asked for help, never offerred help and does nothing but put down PBP.

While you're at it, the same applies to that other clown.

Robert

[bot402]

How dare you try to curb my freedom of speech!

My opinions are as valid as yours, regardless whether you like it or not.

I simply wished to point out that a blinkered approach to anything is dangerous, and your biggoted response has proven that without a shadow of a doubt.

I wasn't aware that I had to ask for help, or offer help to use this FREE!!!!!!! forum.

[Demon]

A 'guru' recommended to Proton as a very promising new compiler. I haven't really posted anything on their forums, but I have read a lot. I'm really interested on the product, it looks real good.

There's one thing that I find really strange though. I read a lot of posts by a 'Tim' on the Proton forums, someone whom I've eventually found out his full name. I look at the userid Oximbit, and I can't help but 'see' something in there, but I can't quite put my finger on it.

Remember pig latin when you interchange letters around? Well, when you unpiglatinize Oximbit, you get a really surprising result.

If I was a power that was on the Proton project, the 1st thing I would do is flush one beta-tester, then I'd delete a Userid, and I'd compare the IP address of that userid with any other in the forum databases.

Totally disgusting behavior. I must say I have a new perspective on Product X and how the TEAM functions. A little bit of housecleaning would go a long way in restoring the integrity of Product X.

Robert

[Demon]

-----------------------------------------------------
How dare you try to curb my freedom of speech!

My opinions are as valid as yours, regardless whether you like it or not.

I simply wished to point out that a blinkered approach to anything is dangerous, and your biggoted response has proven that without a shadow of a doubt.

I wasn't aware that I had to ask for help, or offer help to use this FREE!!!!!!! forum.
-----------------------------------------------------


This isn't a chat forum, nor is it a public forum. It being FREE has nothing to do with your rights, which by the way, you have NONE except one. You have the right to observe the rules and guidelines stipulated when you registered.

Self-help forums work on a simple concept, people helping each other. If a user has absolutely nothing to contribute, then he's wasting disk space. A contribution does not have to be information, it can also be a question, which in turn generates valuable information in the replies.

"Freedom of speech", give me a break...

Robert
:lol:

[Demon]

"Take it on the chin like a man. - OXIMBIT"

I hope you can take it as much as you love to dish it out. I'm really looking forward to that private message about exactly what compiler is 'yours'.

I'm also quite anxious to see what happens when the forum administrators will start comparing IP addresses on userids. You do understand that these forums log this information right?

Robert

[Demon]

"As the last post said if every software company froze there development when it was 100% stable. - OXIMBIT"

Then we'd have nothing but companies as successful as IBM has been with their series of mainframe platforms. Sure, they had bugs, but their platform survives even today. Yes, they evolved them over the years, but they didn't do that overnight, each version lasting years if not decades. Did it have as many features as VAX or the other competition? Nope, probably not, but who cares?

It was built like a rock and that's why IBM platforms have dominated in the big businesses for so many years; dependability, reliability. None of the big businesses appreciate being taken as lab rats. I saw Burroughs win a contract from IBM; 3 months later the students had figured out how to bring the mainframe to a grinding halt. It didn't take long for that contract to be 'alterred' and have IBMs put back in the shop.

The student's needs weren't critical, but the administration also used the mainframe during the night. Having a tech on hand is no help for them to get the schedules, pay cheques and other administrative paperwork done by the next morning.

Robert

[OXIMBIT]

Hello Robert

You have posted so much and got your self wound up so much, this is going to take a long time to answer them all, but here goes.

First of all I don't seem to have got you PM you did say sent one didn't you.

On the question of who you think I am. I have never tied to hide my identity, even with the anagram (which I got wrong), there’s no rocket science in figuring that one out.

If you can bear with me I will give you a little history. I started using Pbro what must be 5 years ago now and was on the List which still runs today, I asked questions and got replies people helped me and I was extremely grateful. I vowed then to do my utmost to help others in return. From knowing nothing about programming I built up my skills and did my best to pass them on. There was Tip of the day and my automatic timer code generator written entirely with macro's and don't forget instant interrupts. I was one of, if not the first to post methods of providing lookup DW tables.

Then I had project that needed a GLCD so I was looking for a source and found Crownhill sold them. I called them up and asked some technical enquiries, I was put through to the writer of compiler Les (making the most of Pbpro fame) who started to talk about his compiler and what I would do including had better data handling. I though I would take a chance. When I first started using it it was not long before I came across the bugs, they were not in the standard commands but in the complex bank switching algorithm. I used to get really cheesed off and would fire of mails all the time, but Les listened worked really hard and came back with a fix the next day. This is how I became a beta tester because I was pushing the compiler to it’s limits, I could have just thrown in the towel and gone back to Pbpro. Only problem was Pbpro could not do what I wanted it to do with out resorting to all these workarounds. I also saw potential in the compiler and thought to make this a good compiler it really needs to properly tested, Les was doing his best but was unable to do every thing. Rather than just write back I would look at the ASM and find the fault and report back. This must be 3 years ago now so in that time I learnt a lot about the way the compilers works.

As you rightly point out I post an another form, 2,355 + posts to be exact, sure like all regular posters to forums were on an ego trip, we must do it for a fix or something because I sure as hell have other things I should be doing. If you read my posts you will see one consistent theme running through them, helping others. Every post where was a bug complaint I would test then hack the code to find out if there was a problem and if there was I would find a work around. Add to the the 100’s of hours writing code for other people, not just saying try this I actually write it for them! This as you will understand takes shed loads of time. Time that I should have been earning a better living, time I could have been with my family, many a night, I’ve gone to put the kids to bed to find it’s 10pm!

The other thing you will see that I set up with Oliver the user site again to help users not just the other compilers users but any body. This again has taken hours and hours of my time. Recently I decide that the user site was not working and needed a rewrite so I took a day of work to go up to Crownhill to talk about a revamp as they like they do with this forum pay for it. It became apparent that they were not going to rewrite it for me. Now I have no idea how to write HTML so I paid out of my own pocket in excess of $400 to get some one else to do it for me. It’s still not finished and I have a shed load of work to do transferring it all but I’m getting there.

Now why do all this? Because I want to help other Picbasic users. I don’t do it for the money nor does Les the other compiler writer. We do it because we want to put out the best product there is. Les could have stopped years ago in improving the product but he spends just about every night working on it making it better and better. The reason the upgrades are free is because he insisted on it . He just thinks it’s a dam cheek to have to pay to get bug fixes. He also insists that all new features are free. The new optimiser, have a look at C compilers it’s extra. He’s not content to sit back and put up with a so so compiler he wants the best that can be produced.

I have to state that while Les is now a good friend I make no money what so ever from sales of this compiler, no favours, nothing, zilch, absolutely zero.

You have accused me of coming on this forum trying to persuade people to buy this other compiler. What other compiler I make a very important point about not mentioning names. In the past I did I stepped out of line and then apologised for it and to this day I still which had not.

Look to the top of this thread and you might get some idea about why I originally posted it. I was just commenting on after all these years your having to do work arounds. Any thing else was said in response to replies. The one thing I should not have done in hind site is made the post comparing code size but when I did the test I could not believe the difference and did it almost on the spur of the moment I did give you warnings about it.

You will note that my aim here has not been to win customers for other compilers but to stand back in disbelief at what your putting up with. Still as Mel pointed out you should not complain about a product after you bought it. I just think that after 3 years and no improvements in it’s core functionality, you should start to ask questions. Read the posts it all there.

Now I have to say that I’m very disheartened with the action of on of the admin on this forum. When I looked earlier there was post to the effect of “I was trying to move this thread to another section and delete all the unwanted post and in the process managed to delete all the good stuff” Now I know that’s not exactly what was said but that was what I read it as. Now when I look that post has been removed and the original replaced. They obviously had second thoughts. Never in the history of the main forum I post on have they ever removed a thread (as far as I’m aware of). I used to note that Melabs were very selective in only keeping the good posts from the list, and obviously its spreading.

When you look through my 2000+ posts you will see I have never flamed any one. Even when they have asked the most daft questions I bit my tongued and never put any body down. In that last set of mails you have posted more insults than I have in my entire life.

I really could do not care if you buy or don’t buy any compile it’s no skin of my nose. All I care about is users get the best support they can and the best product. The fact that a number of you want to just sit back and accept the status quo on the pretence that "well yes it does produce bloat code and yes it is limited in functionality and yes I have to do loads of work a rounds to do the basic stuff "all on the pretence “well it is 100% bug free” is insult to the rest of the users. Look at the latest releases it say’s fixed…. fixed… even after all these years. Bugs are invertible. I would rather have a product that made it easy to write the complex code I need with out introducing more bugs due to my work a rounds and live with 1% chance of a bug that there is always a quick fix or work around for.

As you take such great exception to my posts I have decide to remove my self from this forum (if it’s possible) and try my hardest never to post here again.

If you looking for a response to any comments you have you may be disappointed.

I leave you with this. I have spent more money and time helping other users than anybody I know. If youre happy to live with your things as they are and your little work a rounds then you will be happy for a very long time.

Before I go I have to clarify that I am not Bot402 and have no idea who that person is. like me there just pointing out some home truths!