many thanks again everyone, i have now got the top one connected and it displays 1 row of black squares, i tried the lcd test code but am getting no joy,
so i reprogrammed a simple light an led code which works in the velleman programmer/test board but doesnt seem to work on breadboard, I think this is down to my stupidity,i think the lcd test is written using an external xtal, i've reread the manual but cant seem to work out how to use the internal oscillator on the 16f628a, will have another play when i've calmed down :lol:

Oh and i exploded a pic earlier, got a new power supply from maplins, read the destructions ,dialed in 5v lcd was blank so turned up the current and the voltage dropped to 3v so adjusted the voltage to get 4.5v, then adj the current a bit , the voltage shot up to 25v and bang.

still these thing happen

again many thanks to everyone for replying