Sine wave power inverter

hi guys,
iam reposting the schematic onpdf format

babalola.

Hi,

I saw the schematics diagram for the inverter.
Is there any operational description of the system?
Is this a fully working inverter ?

Thanks
Ambro
IW2FVO

Quote:

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Originally Posted by babalola

hi guys,
iam reposting the schematic onpdf format

babalola.

---

hi,
i have only posted the aspect of my schematics i think is related to the problem i have need to solve and that is, code to regulate the output of the inverter. i have the functional complete schematic.if the need arise i will post the full schematic.however for operational explanation,a single PWM signal is geenerated via the CCPR1L(RC1) of the 18f452,this signal is separed to PWM1 and PWM2 through the operational amplifier LM393 before passing to the steering logic of 74hc257 from where we get the four driving signals through the two unit (A/B) of the 74257.the additional signal on RC2(SWITCHING SIGNAL) is to change the input A/B of 74257.
i hope i make some meanings.can someone give a help to the regulation proble please?
babalola

YOu have done quite a bit of job.And how are you reading the adc i.e. the output feedback.
I mean what is the shape on pin4 /an2.Is it half recified sine?

Earlier there was a suggestion in the same forum to have anther array of error corrction and add a term to
CCPR1L = sine_wave[index];
like CCPR1L = sine_wave[index]+sinewave_corr[err];

with no load check at each oint what is the reading on adc and then with load check the same .the differen ce will give an idea of how to frame error array.
then keep updating the error array based on feedback.

also it is not clear what is the update time(timer0 interrupt).
may be you can contact me at [email protected],since i happen to check forum rarely.

hi sougata,

can someone please give a precise support on this issue of output regulation of the inverter.
i know there are a lot of you expert outside there who can help.

regards.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mincing

YOu have done quite a bit of job.And how are you reading the adc i.e. the output feedback.
I mean what is the shape on pin4 /an2.Is it half recified sine?

Earlier there was a suggestion in the same forum to have anther array of error corrction and add a term to
CCPR1L = sine_wave[index];
like CCPR1L = sine_wave[index]+sinewave_corr[err];

with no load check at each oint what is the reading on adc and then with load check the same .the differen ce will give an idea of how to frame error array.
then keep updating the error array based on feedback.

also it is not clear what is the update time(timer0 interrupt).
may be you can contact me at [email protected],since i happen to check forum rarely.

---

I can not find HEX a file for PIC18F452, PUBLISH

hi
I want to make a sine wave inverter with 310 vdc H bridge as the final stage driven by signal from sine tabled PWM from PIC microcontroler. can anybody suggest me a cheap and best controller from the pic family.

Hi,
A PIC16F616 could be a good choice or even better a PIC16F1824 The later runs at 32MHz has ECCP and supports linear addressing and shadow registers for fast interrupt return.
Since you would be having a High Voltage DC Bus it is easy to keep it regulated / overcurrent protected and simply drive the output bridge using a micro though a sine table. The only complication could be isolation between the battery boost and the output stage if the same micro is used for housekeeping too.

P.S. - Personally I would have selected a PIC18F1330.

Hi sougatha and Thank you,
I have been a regular visitor to the Thread sine wave power inverter for a long
time. I am happy to get a reply for my first query from one of the experienced hands. My
knowledge of PIC programming is minimal. I got the inspiration to do this project for my
home from here. Can you kindly suggest me a link to learn PICBASIC commands in some detail.

Hi,
With the above diagram. The Bridge Rectifier part from the AC mains turns it into an online UPS and needs to be controlled type for steady DC Bus Voltage. As already mentioned if the DC bus voltage is kept steady the output would also be steady.
Regarding PICbasic Pro, I learnt everything from this forum and owe all the contributors a lot. Best is take up one programming challenge at a time and get a grip on the concepts involved. This forum is a life-saver. I do not do basic much still while searching information this is the first place I take a peek.
Good Luck.

Hi Sougata,
It is long time i am looking in this forum for a complete project relevant to a 200 > 500 Watt sine wave inverter.
Is there any possibility for me to have schematics diagram and software for such a project ?
I will appreciate very much your reply on the matter .
Thanks
Ambrogio

Hi,

I do not have a complete design in PBP. My initial design based on 18F452 was a commercial flop so I had to develop one on 16F72/73. Since my initial design there has been a number of improvements in the hardware side too. Like for a 12 volts system I implemented a MOSFET driver with internal charge pump that reduces the switching and conduction loss. Because while the battery is discharging the deep discharge cutoff threshold is generally 10.8 volts so the gates are pumped with merely 10 volts which should drive them into enhancement modes but with a PWM at 20KHz the switching losses are high.

But iw2fvo you are right that there should be complete relevant project to get started. I couldn't do it for babalola though... I definitely have in mind to rig up something for the wiki

While browsing this microcontroller controlled device caught my eye:
I believe this has the potential to be a game changer!

The AD9833 is a low power, programmable waveform generator capable of producing sine, triangular, and square wave outputs.
The output frequency and phase are software programmable, allowing easy tuning. No external components are needed.
The AD9833 is written to via a 3-wire serial interface.
This serial interface operates at clock rates up to 40 MHz and is compatible with DSP and microcontroller standards.
The device operates with a power supply from 2.3 V to 5.5 V.

Norm

Hi,

The application domain for the AD9833 is much wider than the scope of a sinewave inverter. It is majorly used as a function generator. Since we would be producing either 50Hz or 60 Hz it would be an overkill for the application. Making most of the controller and crushing the BOM is also part of the job.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sougata

Hi,

The application domain for the AD9833 is much wider than the scope of a sinewave inverter. It is majorly used as a function generator. Since we would be producing either 50Hz or 60 Hz it would be an overkill for the application. Making most of the controller and crushing the BOM is also part of the job.

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Would it not produce a 50Hz or 60Hz sine wave with little code?
Low volume production may benefit.

Norm

Hi Norm,

Producing the sinewave is not the issue. It is just a counter >> Lookup table >> HPWM not much code indeed. However for a Power Bridge to be driven a lot more needs to be done. So if an AD9833 is used it attracts additional glue logic and circuitry making the design more complex in terms of Hardware. Being the author of FL (did I ever thanked you for it...my bad...I wonder how you could do such an elaborate software FREE....) you already know it is a lot more easy to copy/paste software than hardware!! Moreover the AD9833 is available only in MSOP if I am not wrong which makes it difficult for hobbyist to work upon. Consider the price against a PIC16F1824 on digikey. The AD sells for about $10 and the PIC is $1.5. The AD9833 works on the principal of DDS which is again mimic able by a PIC limited to much lower frequency within the Audio Range.

Since I do not have a complete (in all respect) PBP project on the sine wave inverter, I am making arrangements to do one. I suppose I would start making two PCBs. One with the MOSFET Power Stage (which you can blow up and still hope the micro is not fried !!) the other the controller itself, so that an experimentation platform is available for different options. All in single side, for Homebrew PCB. What do you say ??

Hi Sougata ,
thanks a lot for having reply to me.

I do understand that there is no PCB for the project at the moment , but I am still interested in understanding the system operation and I would like to experiment it on my little laboratrory. I am an Italian Radio Ham and the inverter will be used as a backup power source for my radios only.
Is it possible to have a system description, a block diagram and a schematics diagram for me to implement and test the project ?
Is the program written in assembler ?
I will appreciate very much to read back from you.
Thanks in advance.
Regards,
Ambrogio
Iw2fvo[


QUOTE=sougata;108771]Hi,

I do not have a complete design in PBP. My initial design based on 18F452 was a commercial flop so I had to develop one on 16F72/73. Since my initial design there has been a number of improvements in the hardware side too. Like for a 12 volts system I implemented a MOSFET driver with internal charge pump that reduces the switching and conduction loss. Because while the battery is discharging the deep discharge cutoff threshold is generally 10.8 volts so the gates are pumped with merely 10 volts which should drive them into enhancement modes but with a PWM at 20KHz the switching losses are high.

But iw2fvo you are right that there should be complete relevant project to get started. I couldn't do it for babalola though... I definitely have in mind to rig up something for the wiki[/QUOTE]

Hi iw2fvo,

Since I do commercial designs they are generally a client's property which I cannot publicly distribute. So to produce a Sinewave Inverter the hardware itself could be a great obstacle. PCB being one important component. So I am planning a make a fresh simple hardware design that can be easily produced by an average hobbyist.

BTW to run the radios you would need 13.5 Volts DC (my ham license never got renewed) if I am not wrongs so what are the loads you plan to use with your inverter.

Thanks for the clarification
I did not realized that you are a commercial designer.
Anyway, I am very interested in homebrew power inverter : I will appreciate if you could help in the next future !
I do have very old radio that is operated at 230 Vac 50 Hz.
I am also considering to buy new radio at 13 Vdc ... but they are very expensive to me at this moment; I would like to implement an MPPT solar panel battery charger in case I will buy new radio for Christmas !!! Could you help me in this case ?

Thanks
Ambrogio

Hi,

I am gearing up for the sinewave wiki however at this moment I cannot release any MPPT code.

Update:

Some progress has been made on the modular MOS-BRIDGE PCB. Uses 2x4= 8 MOSFETs mounted on general heatsink driven by 2xIR2110. Employs RdsON based over current detection to switch off MOSFETs even without software intervention. Targeted to be a protected generalized high current Bridge(3.3V ->5V logic level input). Tinkering goes on in the next weekend. May employ cross conduction logic, dead time on the same->Yet to be decided based on available time makes the hardware more rugged and suitable for experimenter's without much experience in PowerElectronics.

Hi Suogata ,
I really hope to see something on this forum just for me to start my homebrewing !
Thanks
Ambrogio

Homebrewing !! That is the whole idea so I made the MOS-PCB single sided. Hope I can manage the processor module to be same.

thanks all. but i need sine wave schema for pic16f84 and inverter

Hi to all in the forum and to Sougata,

I am still waiting for a complete project for a sine wave inverter ... it will be a replicable one.
I will like to implement it.
Any new since this long time ?
Thanks for any help.
Regards,
Ambrogio

I Request Code examples for PBP .For PIC interface Project Powerinverter

Thanks ,

Will you please post the part list, and the software for the PIC ?
What are the performance of this equipment ?
Any brief explanation of its operation ?

Thanks in advance for having posted complete data for fully repllicable project.
Regards,
Ambrogio
IW2FVO

Quote:

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Originally Posted by babalola

hi guys,
iam reposting the schematic onpdf format

babalola.

---

Source code is property of jetmark technology,delhi, of above schematic available on commercial terms.
Best regards
pksinha

Hi Das,
What a long time! thanks that the forum is back again, we cannot wait too long to see your inverter design for all.
I think this time around it will afford all of us opportunity to explore every aspect of digital sine wave inverter design.
Thanks for your effort so far,
Regards,
Babalola

Please am having problem with my inverter that is posted on this forum on page 5.

Please some one help me out am having some bad days burning my fets trying to put up this sine wave inverter posted on this forum, can some one please give me a solution why my FETs keep burning when I power it on to Mains input supply.

:confused:

No chance to have something working on this forum expecially for the inverters or MPPT .
It should be an homebrewers or do it youself forum... but it is not.
Ambrogio

I have built this inverter but am having some issues with the charging, when I put on the mains my FETs get burnt especially the 2 Low side.
Can some one give me solution to this problem

Regarding sine wave generation and sinusoidal pulse width modulation, I have written quite a few articles and have posted them on my blog. You can find them here:


Generation and Implementation of Sine Wave Table
http://tahmidmc.blogspot.com/2011/01...n-of-sine.html

Smart Sine - Software to generate sine table
http://tahmidmc.blogspot.com/2012/10...rate-sine.html

Generation of sine wave using SPWM in PIC16F684
http://tahmidmc.blogspot.com/2012/10...pwm-in_10.html

600W 50Hz sine wave inverter test circuit
http://tahmidmc.blogspot.com/2012/10...rter-test.html

Feedback in sine wave inverter (PIC16F series based)
http://tahmidmc.blogspot.com/2012/11...er-pic16f.html

Demystifying The Use of Table Pointer in SPWM - Application in Sine Wave Inverter
http://tahmidmc.blogspot.com/2013/02...ointer-in.html

Sine Wave Generation without ECCP - Using single CCP Module of PIC16F877A
http://tahmidmc.blogspot.com/2013/02...t-eccp_16.html

Sine Wave Generation with "Fast PWM Mode" of AVR - using ATmega16
http://tahmidmc.blogspot.com/2013/02...mode_2525.html

I hope everyone finds these articles/tutorials helpful.

Regards,
Tahmid.

Thanks a lot for this post:
this is the most interesting article I have found in this forum.
There are a lot of things to learn.
congratulation to Tahmid.
Regards,
Ambrogio
IW2FVO

Tahmid, I've tried to access those files but it seems the file path is unavailable. can you please refresh the link

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iw2fvo

Thanks a lot for this post:
this is the most interesting article I have found in this forum.
There are a lot of things to learn.
congratulation to Tahmid.
Regards,
Ambrogio
IW2FVO

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Thanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wire042

Tahmid, I've tried to access those files but it seems the file path is unavailable. can you please refresh the link

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The links should be fine. They're working fine for me. Please try again.

can you post the aspect of your code that deal with the charging?. here you are talking about syncronouse boost charging when you are using the 2 lower fet to efect the charging. in this case the 6v at the secondary of the same power tansformer is boosted to about 14v to cgarge the battery.note however that at this time of cgarging the upper 2 fets must be switched off then pass you PWModulated signal of a particular duty cycle to drive the lower mosfet. remember equally you are using the leakage inductance of the power transformer for the inductor part of a typical boost converter.
i hope this help,
regards,
babalola.

Hi,
I feel sorry that I am not being able to support this thread as I should and could not complete the conversion of my SMD design to Hobbyist version. (I wish though) Here are some quick tips that may help you babalola:

Synchronous Rectification Deals with Switching on the upper FETs on a per cycle,phase basis so that the rectifier efficiency is best while charging, where the Body Diode is superseded by the RDSon of the MOSFET. For the upper one this may sound simple if you are sensing the input AC and know the Transformer connected as ( Primary Start/Finish vs Secondary Start/Finish, My Pro Design detects it) but for the lower one it gets tricky.

So lets forget Synchronous for now and let the upper MOSFETs behave just like diodes.

Apply PWM to both the Lower MOSFETs simultaneously but only in the middle of a single cycle, with upper limited duty cycle.
To experiment what is the limit with your transformer and profile entire system.
Have a load () connected to the Bridge +DC- and ensure Caps in order of 10000uF
Run a slow loop to increase the PWM (till you fry your MOS :))
Idea is to figure out if you are actually achieving any boost

And Tahmid thanks for the great post. I wish I could actually spend sometime giving back to the community for which I am whatever I am today. But I personally would not buy the idea of, a set of different lookup tables for voltage regulation. You can have a 8x8 unsigned multiply within 54uS as stated by Darrel somewhere else and an unrolled Bit tested, rolling multiply takes about 42-44uS to call from PBP. For a proportional control and tricky retention of portion's of older error (I call it pseudo I, cause a software automatically introduces the integration Time) at least a PI system can be designed.

What I have learned from experience is that sometimes it is the Hardware that is crap than my own code (Loads of Crap :)) which is to be blamed. Post a schema if possible.

Something to read : http://www.researchgate.net/publicat...fe3d4e9275.pdf

Thanks to all
Regards
Sougata

Dear sougata, am very grateful and i appreciate you for your help to every one on this forum. am also happy to join this reportable organization to improve my knowledge in electronics and PIC programing field.thanks for acceptance.