My Official Introduction, and What Role to PIC MCUs Play in Your Lives?

Greetings to all-I figured that this area of the forum would be the best place to post a little bit of information about myself and to lay the foundation of why I'm here and my intended usage of Microchip's PIC microcontrollers in the coming future...

First off, I'm from a technically isolated part of the United States-Northeastern Kentucky to be exact. There's literally nothing to do in this area regarding not only work, but also entertainment and social gatherings unless you're an alcoholic and spend your mornings, afternoons, evenings, or all of the above at any of Ashland's fine establishments including, but not limited to: The Eagles' Lounge (bar), VFW (bar), any restaurant (99.9% are equipped with bars), or any bar/grill in the neighboring areas (Huntington, WV and Ironton, OH). Since I'm not a drinker, I prefer to stay on a computer or keep my nose buried in a book so I can learn as much as possible on the subject of programming PIC MCUs, electronics, and technical advancements in the automotive area (which has been my love and hobby from and early age)...

Some information on my background includes, but is not limited to: years of welding, fabricating, mechanical construction/repair/customization, CNC plasma table operation, installation of custom and aftermarket auto products (from simple audio/video auto installs to more complex mechanical and electrical pneumatic adjustable suspension with digital control/display products), and-in the past year or *slightly* over, I've become quite fond of building electronic circuits and working on *mastering* microEngineering Labs' PICBasic PRO language for PIC MCUs. I have never had previous experience with Basic Stamps, PICaxe, etc.-after buying and mostly completing a MegaSquirt II V3.0 engine management system for my Series 2 "GSL-SE" "clone", first generation Mazda RX-7, I had accumulated MANY books on reading diagrams/schematics, basic electronics, "101 Spy Gadgets for the Evil Genious" (by author Brad Graham-check out his website at www.atomiczombie.com), and other books related to electronic circuits and PIC programming.

After realizing the potential of these microcontrollers (or mini-computers-in-a-chip as I have to refer to them to the technically-challenged members of my community), I have gathered a great deal of ideas for future products that I hope to develop and complete in the near future, in hopes of starting my own business.

Seeing as how I would still consider myself a "noob" (as I'm sure most of you guys and gals would too), please forgive me if I ask a seemingly stupid question from time-to-time. I have read through this forum, used the search feature (even the "Google" site search feature-which is bookmarked on my notebook), read through COUNTLESS datasheets for not only the PICs I own, but also the ones I plan to own in the near future and all ICs, transistors, and other components I currently own and plan to own (and all those are saved on my notebook for quick reference), read both the PBC and PBP manuals (you'd think my PBP V2.50b manual was a student's textbook with all the highlighted sentences and bookmarked pages that I constantly refer to, which I've read from front to back at least twice so far), and I own and have read through two books I bought from melabs.com by author Harprit Singh Sandhu, "The Lab-X1 Tutorial" and "Making PIC-based Laboratory Instruments and Controllers" (I have yet to complete either book, due to the fact that I have a pet peeve of re-reading paragraphs/pages/chapters until I completely understand each idea and lesson or example presented, and I can't bring myself to read past a sample code section/segment if I can't actually get it to perform properly or don't understand even the smallest aspect of it). I'm currently working through these and, with the help of my local library, I should have a wealth of information at my hands to further assist in developing my skills as a progressing PIC programmer.

Thanks again to Skimask-this time for recommending "The Art of Electronics" (from another post in a different section of this forum), which I've found on Amazon.com for a *hefty* sum. I'll purchase and read that book entirely just as soon as I receive the extra funds to acquire it.

I currently have a few projects "up my sleeve" that I plan on asking for a bit of help with here and there, so all help, direction, and criticism from all forum members is not only welcome, but greatly appreciated.

To be blunt, I have absolutely NO formal training in any electronics field (except for installing central office equipment in Ma Bell's offices and Nortel-specific telephony switching equipment, but their schematics/diagrams are closely-guarded secrets-we were only given "cable tags" to connect the various equipment together and the purpose of each individual component was also "hush-hush" secretive). I consider myself an intelligent individual and am a quick-learner, but everything I know and have learned about this field has been self-taught. This is going to change in the near future, though, since I have enrolled at the local community college for this coming spring semester for (first) an Information Technology course (computer networking), then I plan to continue my higher education until I have (at least) a degree in Electronic Engineering, and possibly another in Mechanical Engineering-but the Electronic Engineering is a top priority at this time.

Forgive me for the short novel about my background, I just wanted to introduce myself to anybody interested in reading this-especially the members of this forum that could really assist me in the development and finalization of my projects. From what I've seen so far, this is a VERY helpful community and I'm proud to become a part of it.

**One quick question to anybody that has taken the time to read (or glance over) this thread: What role do Microchip's PIC MCUs play in your lives? Are you just a hobbyist (as I am at the current time), a designer/engineer for a big or smaller company/corporation, do you have your own programming-based business that contracts work through other companies/clients, or something entirely different? I don't need to know any personal information, I'm just trying to find out where I can fit in (preferrably in my own business-whatever it may become) once I become proficient and understand more about my newest love and hobby...

Again, thanks to all who can help, guide, direct, teach, or inform me of anything beneficial relating to this subject...

Sincerely,
-Adam R. Collins

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**One quick question to anybody that has taken the time to read (or glance over) this thread: What role do Microchip's PIC MCUs play in your lives? Are you just a hobbyist (as I am at the current time), a designer/engineer for a big or smaller company/corporation, do you have your own programming-based business that contracts work through other companies/clients, or something entirely different? I don't need to know any personal information, I'm just trying to find out where I can fit in (preferrably in my own business-whatever it may become) once I become proficient and understand more about my newest love and hobby...

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I basically started MCUs because I am lazy.
The control units (old ones) in my industry were a room full of relays and timers. When a procedure needed changed it required a complete re-work even when the same motors, valves, sensors, etc were used. Nothing added or removed, just different a sequence.

About 10 years ago we built a new system from scratch. I had played with a Basic Stamp a little at the time and had seen some of the newer manufactured systems using off the shelf PLCs. They were slow. So I tried a batch controller using a Stamp. Worked well, fast and easy to change the sequence of operation.

Then went to using PBP when I out grew the Stamp.

My story is a little different. PIC was forced on me. As a designer, I used to work with 8051 family components till one day a client came to me with a board designed for him by someone else using a PIC16C54 which had then migrated to 16F84. I needed to re-do the project on a 16F628 and add some more features. There was no source code to fall back on. Starting from scratch, I had to learn about the PIC and get the board to work and perhaps better the compliance to specs. Today the product line is mature and gives very good battery efficiency using sleep mode operation. This exercise, forced on me, helped me a lot and today, I just love to use PICs wherever there is a low power requirement.

A similar story with the cypress PSoC happened, and so now I do 8051/PIc/PSoC and a little bit of ARM too. But, mainly development of new products is on PIC/PSoC/8051 in that order.

Jerson

I have realized that the potential for using not only PIC MCUs, but any other available MCUs in almost any application is really only limited by the software written and the peripheral components installed in the circuit. Microchip Technologie's website itself states that their products are used in everything from toothbrushes to toys, industrial and medical equipment, automotive applications, and so many more products that it would take thousands of pages to list every application...

Thanks for sharing your stories as to how you've been introduced to this line of MCUs. Dave, I know you've been a great help so far in the short time I've been a member of this forum-thanks for sharing part of your story. Jerson, I checked out your geocities.com profile and I sincerely hope you take this as a compliment-I'm really envious of the listed accomplishments you have posted there. I hope I can someday match (or at least come close to matching) just a portion of your work...

I've got so many projects that I'd like to develop with Microchip's PICs, but I'd also like to experiement with Atmel's, ARM's, Parallax's, and other MCU manufacturers products in the near future. I'm excited to be going back to school, even if I can't source a job in this area with my intended occupation-mainly for the fact that I should gather most (if not all or close to all) of the information I need to get my own small business up and going on the right track.

There's still so many other members of this forum that I'd like to know a bit more about-nothing personal, and especially nothing secretive or incriminating. I'd just like to get a few more ideas for future business opportunities and other related fields that I could possibly venture into after "mastering" PBP. After I get a better grip on this language, I'll study up on the information that Microchip distributes to assist in teaching their customers the 33-, 35-, and -50-something to 70-something assembly language instructions for their 12-bit instruction set, 14-bit instruction set, 16-bit instruction set, and 16-bit enhanced instruction set respectively...

I'm planning on learning "C" along it's most popular variations, Virtual Basic and the BASIC instruction set for both BS1 and BS2, and other computer programming languages so I can eventually start writing DOS-based software for desk-top PC's, notebooks, etc. I'll take it all one step at a time, and keep my memory refreshed by moving back and forth between projects in multiple languages. I'm hoping to get most of the essentials down before it's required of me in the courses I'll be taking over the next four years or so...

To all you others who have taken the time to read this and the previous posts in this thread, please-if you can-give me a bit of info on why and how you'd gotten into PICs, programming, and what job opportunities may be available for intermediate or experienced MCU programmers (or even beginning programmers with a solid desire to learn more about the complex MCUs, PLC's, etc.). Again, I don't need to know ANY specific details, especially if it'll give out any kind of secretive information or things you'd rather keep under wraps). I'm mostly just interested in learning more about this field in general-the different job opportunities and positions that I may be able to start out in before I finish school to further help me develp my skills as not only a programmer but also as a circuit designer and trouble-shooter for circuits and electronical products in general.

To you others who haven't had a chance to reply to this thread yet, please-if you can find the time-share a bit or your background with us. We don't need to know the name of your company or who you're working for, or even any current projects, although a small bit of info on those or future projects and certain requirements for those could help me and others decide which route to take when we decide to make a career out of this field, which is more than just a hobby to me...

I'd like to hear about some stumbling blocks and dead-ends you guys have encountered along the way, and if possible how you've managed to work around those to complete the task or project at hand.

Just to be clear, I sincerely believe that I've found my calling in life, and I would greatly appreciate any and all input as to why you others are here, what got you into this field, where it's brought you to date, and any recommendations on finding an apprenticeship or another means of learning as much as I possibly can on the job or how to get my foot in the door with an established corporation/company until I'm finally reaedy to set off on my own...

Thank you all for sharing the info you have, and any and all advice, suggestions, suggested reading, help, direction, criticism, and time devoted to assisting a fellwo enthusiast is and will not be taken in vain. I'm very proud and grateful to have become a member of this community, and I'm looking forward to all advice and info you can share with me-no matter how big or small...

Sincerely,
-Adam Collins

Enjoy :D
http://www.picbasic.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=5988

Hi Adam

A bit off topic, but not really, in the End ...

Answering your question about Easypic5 on "another Forum" ... compatibility is 100% when using Microcode Studio as an IDE.

Using MPLAB allows compatibility too ... as you just have to transfer your Hex to the Easy5 onboard progammer ( one mouse click ! )

I've also appeciated your RX8 "Engine stories" ... I just can tell, Here, on this forum, you will meet VERY highly PbP and Pics Qualified users ...

so, listening to their advices will be ... the least to do.

Welcome here and have fun in theses columns.

Alain

PS: as Humour must be Keyword ...

you've forgotten to write that :

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Sorry for the long-winded and hard-to-dicipher post, I tried to explain everything that you'll need to know but most likely just confused you even more. I hope you can get what I'm trying to say...

-Adam Collins

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Originally Posted by mackrackit

Enjoy
http://www.picbasic.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=5988

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Once again, Dave to the rescue! :D I didn't even think about searching for this topic before posting it. After reading that topic, I feel like "part of the family" now, or at least I have a better idea of the backgrounds of those that have and are providing the help I'm seeking...

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Originally Posted by Acetronics

Hi Adam

A bit off topic, but not really, in the End ...

Answering your question about Easypic5 on "another Forum" ... compatibility is 100% when using Microcode Studio as an IDE.

Using MPLAB allows compatibility too ... as you just have to transfer your Hex to the Easy5 onboard progammer ( one mouse click ! )

I've also appeciated your RX8 "Engine stories" ... I just can tell, Here, on this forum, you will meet VERY highly PbP and Pics Qualified users ...

so, listening to their advices will be ... the least to do.

Welcome here and have fun in theses columns.

Alain

PS: as Humour must be Keyword ...

you've forgotten to write that :

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Thanks Alain-I've since purchased the EasyPIC5 along with the 128x64 GLCD and touch screen, the 2x16 blue backlit LCD and DS1820, along with an additional 4x20 blue backlit LCD and additional touch screen connector. I will get microBasic in the near future, but I really need to familiarize myself with PBP a bit more to avoid confusion between the two at this time. I've found it VERY easy to use compiled PBP programs on the EasyPIC5, just in my case I still have to remember to change the oscillator setting to "HS" when I use it. I'm hoping to see an upgrade to PBP in the near future that allows the use of GLCD commands so I can take advantage of the extra touch screen connector I've purchased, but I'm sure I can use microBasic for that once that need arises...

As for the RX7club forum, I really should send a "thanks" to members like Aaron Cake and others for literally laying the foundation for my current interest in electronics. He, and others, had introduced me to the Megasquirt engine management system (the DIY EFI "computer"), helped me learn what I needed to about the rotary engines, and instilled a thriving thirst for knowledge about custom electronics, which I've slowly been quenching for last year or so...

:D I'll try to ease up on the long-winded posts and "cut to the chase" here. I'm bad for that, but I'll make sure to type the least amount possible while still including all the necessary information...;)

Thanks to all for the warm welcome; I won't act as a typical "noob", posting the same topic in multiple parts of the forum, asking for info that's clearly listed in either the datasheets or PBP manuals, etc. I do my best to do my homework and make sure the answer to my question doesn't lie right in front of me before I ask. In most cases, I probably have the answer in a book I own (or one checked out from my local library) and will attempt to find it there or by searching this and other forums before disturbing others with it...

All the help, cooperation, and direction is greatly appreciated!
Sincerely,
-Adam Collins

You can download the demo version of mikroBASIC for free. It has a very generous limit of 2K of compiled code - enough to do just about any beginner project. Plus you get the advantage of structured programming (true functions and procedures with parameter passing), GLCD, SD/MMC, RS-485, etc. Also, the PICFlash programmer (of your EasyPIC5) is fully integrated and you can also do hardware ICD (in-circuit debugging) - single-stepping, breakpoints, read register values and much more.

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Originally Posted by rmteo

You can download the demo version of mikroBASIC for free. It has a very generous limit of 2K of compiled code - enough to do just about any beginner project. Plus you get the advantage of structured programming (true functions and procedures with parameter passing), GLCD, SD/MMC, RS-485, etc. Also, the PICFlash programmer (of your EasyPIC5) is fully integrated and you can also do hardware ICD (in-circuit debugging) - single-stepping, breakpoints, read register values and much more.

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I've noticed some of the features offered by microBasic that aren't incorporated in PBP, so I have downloaded the demo version but have only used it to compile the included sample programs. I'm going to add it to my toolbox eventually, but I'd like to get a better grip on PBP first. I've studied a few lessons on Assembly, but the two languages are really too different to confuse me. I figured that if I started trying to learn microBasic before I've mastered PBP then I would just confuse myself due to all the similarities and minor variations between it and PBP. If nothing else, I feel the cost of microBasic is worth it just for the GLCD purposes...

I've packed my brain with WAY too much info on everything I'm trying to learn here lately to start in on mB. PBP has done everything I've needed for the time being, but I still need to reference the manual and certain books when writing code for even simple projects. Once I get it down, I'll jump into mB.

Here's a useful document for comparing and converting code from mB to PBP or vice versa: http://www.mikroe.com/pdf/mikrobasic/migration_path.pdf

It's really just a general overview of the two languages, but it provides a little bit of info regarding the differences between the two...

I have since purchased the PICkit2 from Microchip, but I haven't played around with the ICD capabilities of it yet. I'm working on it, but there's still a LOT more learning I need to do before I'm ready to tackle microBasic and their ICD...;)

-Adam Collins

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Originally Posted by rxforspeed

Thanks again to Skimask-this time for recommending "The Art of Electronics" (from another post in a different section of this forum), which I've found on Amazon.com for a *hefty* sum. I'll purchase and read that book entirely just as soon as I receive the extra funds to acquire it.

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It's expensive, Adam; no two ways about it. But it's worth every cent. My copy of the second edition is well-worn; I've had it for almost 20 years.

You can often find a good deal on a used copy of an older edition, so consider that possibility.

Russ

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Originally Posted by RussMartin

It's expensive, Adam; no two ways about it. But it's worth every cent. My copy of the second edition is well-worn; I've had it for almost 20 years.

You can often find a good deal on a used copy of an older edition, so consider that possibility.

Russ

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Thanks, Russ. The local library had gotten it in yesterday and I was just about to jump into it...

I've seen a lot of recommendations for this book, so I'm sure I'll get my own copy before Christmas. I just wanted to see what all the "hype" was about before shelling out all that cash...

Amazon.com has some pretty good deals on used copies, but I'm often leary to purchase books from some of the people who advertise and sell through Amazon. I think I'd rather buy it new directly from them...

-Adam Collins

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Originally Posted by rxforspeed

Here's a useful document for comparing and converting code from mB to PBP or vice versa: http://www.mikroe.com/pdf/mikrobasic/migration_path.pdf


-Adam Collins

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WARNING !!!

This document is probably VERY old , or the writer never used PBP ...

of course it is to prove that MKBasic is the best ..., but LOTS of arguments are totally FALSE ... and LOTS of infos are OUT of DATE !!!

So, ... this piece of paper only use is for ... toilets !!!


I'm not partial here, use both compilers, and know enough of both to prove what I've written ...

Alain

Alain, since you use both compilers, would it be possible for you to highlight the Pros and Cons of the two?

I guess it depend of what you've done 'till now with PBP. It also depend how much you trust in hidden compiler feature.

Having already spending a lot of my time to build many routines to interface many different type of hardware, I now understand how things work and how to solve a problem, to migrate some routine to suit another hardware (let's say different GLCD controller type). But yeah... i spent time on it. What if I haven't time? MAYBE i would use a tool who give me the feature i need... but more than likely, I would go in a different way, so I'll use something I'm comfortable with... hence PBP.

You can't tell which is better.. if so what's your own definition of better?

I'll stop here for now.

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Originally Posted by Acetronics

WARNING !!!

This document is probably VERY old , or the writer never used PBP ...

of course it is to prove that MKBasic is the best ..., but LOTS of arguments are totally FALSE ... and LOTS of infos are OUT of DATE !!!

So, ... this piece of paper only use is for ... toilets !!!


I'm not partial here, use both compilers, and know enough of both to prove what I've written ...

Alain

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My initial impression of that document was that it was a comparison of an earlier version of PBP and not the current V2.50b that I own. The first few lines of the page do help in understanding a few of the major differences between mB and PBP, though. I agree with you, Alain-the rest is pretty biased towards mB. Of course, that link was sent to me from a mikroElektronika employee after a barrage of questions regarding the use of the EasyPIC5 with PBP...

I would very much like to see some "GLCD" commands incorporated into PBP, but like I said, I'll eventually get mB if for no other reason than that. Unless MELabs introduces a new upgrade to PBP with "GLCD" commands in the next few months...

I also plan on learning Assembly, "C", and other programming languages in the coming years to eventually migrate to some more sophisticated 16-bit MCUs and to expand the tools in my toolbox. I'll upgrade PBP as long as the upgrades contain features that are useful to me, but I don't want to be limited to a single language years down the road when or IF these 8-bit PICs become obsolete. BUT-I've still got a decent journey to fully comprehend the abilities and limitations of PBP ahead of me first, so I'm not looking to migrate until I become independent of the manual and certain books I need to reference at the current time...

-Adam Collins

P.S.-Sorry to post that biased link, I shouldn't have included it.
Disclaimer: Adam Collins is in no way affiliated with either mikroElektronika or microEngineering Labs, Inc. All thoughts, ideas, suggestions, and information posted is only the ideals and views of Mr. Collins, and do not reflect the views of either the owners/Administrators of this forum, mikroElektronika, or microEngineering Labs Inc. Download and read the referenced link at your own risk, and remember that it was written to highlight the so-called "benefits" of mikroElektronika's mikroBasic.

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Originally Posted by rmteo

Alain, since you use both compilers, would it be possible for you to highlight the Pros and Cons of the two?

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Hi, Rmteo

As you also use both compilers ( lol )... you know PBP has no big dedicated libraries like GLCD, Nor direct support for floating arithmetics.

The main point between, I think ... is the PBP extensive use of "soft written functions" where MKB widely use Hard resources ...

Major impact on flexibility and portability ...

I'd also add PBP existing libraries are MUCH easier to use Than MKE's ...


Now, I was speaking about TRUE , FALSE , and OUT of DATE arguments ... just points that are easy to verify and do not imply any subjective appreciation.


The translations from MKB ( or C ! ) I've done to the day just showed me PBP "way of thinking" and syntax was easier FOR ME ...



As a "solid" comparison example ...

I posted here a "translation" of Warren Schroeder "RC Pulse and duty meter" ( MKB )...

http://www.picbasic.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=9709

As you'll see ... it's far from a "line per line" translation ... but, to me , is a good way to show how same question can be solved both ways ...


Which is "better" ... lol !!! everyone has it's own criteria ...

Alain

Thanks for your comments, Alain. I have mkB and mkB for dsPIC plus 2 other BASIC compilers - but I do not use PBP - not yet. :eek:

The question was NOT which is better. I was asking your opinions on the Pros & Cons of PBP vs. mkB which you and mister E have answered.