Be helpful otherwise go get a life, have a Beer, etc etc

[Melanie]

Unhelpful smart ass replies are becoming somewhat tiresome and excessive on this forum... if you don't want to sensibly contribute to a thread, then simply don't post - the person requesting help will soon realise that either their request is unreasonable, folks are too busy, or they just don't have an answer. That comment is aimed at specific people on this forum... without naming any...

[Dave]

Melanie, I used to frequent this site quite often and now maybe once a week as most posts are answered by some of the same people and there replys are Too often "downing" the other peoples ideas. That is no help to the people asking for it....

Dave Purola,
N8NTA

[victorf57]

I do miss the picbasic list.
If people go back and read the questions and replies that were exchanged then vs. now.
I think most will agree that the list was a much friendlier place to ask questions.
Victor

[Freman]

Being one of the noobiest persons here, I have to say I appreciate all the help I've been given getting through my issues. Even when peoples suggestions have clobbered each other - it's still useful as it gives me more to consider.

So, once again - Thanks to all who've been helping, if you're ever in Brisbane, Aus - There's a beer waiting for you :)

[aerostar]

I do miss the picbasic list.
If people go back and read the questions and replies that were exchanged then vs. now.
I think most will agree that the list was a much friendlier place to ask questions.
Victor

I totally agree with Victor, I used to reply to the picbasic list where I had some relevant input to give, but since it has been stopped I have not bothered with this forum.

It would be nice to have the picbasic list resurrected.

[sayzer]

....That comment is aimed at specific people on this forum... without naming any...

I forgot to post on this!

I can count two of them for sure, I am not sure if there is more??


------------------

[skimask]

So I guess PIC doesn't stand for Politically InCorrect?

[Bruce]

I miss the old email list too, so I'm testing one on our server. If anyone wants to give it a
whirl, send a blank email to [email protected] with subscribe in the subject line.

You should receive an automated return email stating you're subscribed. To unsubscribe
just send another blank email to the same address with unsubscribe in the subject line.

If people use it, I'll leave it online.

[T.Jackson]

It really belittles a person when you reply in a smarty-alecky way. Firstly it insults their intelligence, secondly it puts the person in fear of more ridicule about asking anymore questions.

If you are genuine about trying to help someone, the best reply you can give is claims with reasoning (explanation). For example: Resistors have colour bands on them, <u> because the colours are used to identify their value.</u>

The underlined words denote the reasoning; it explains why resistors have colour bands on them. The words before it form the claim. That sentence is called a premise.

Trent Jackson

[Acetronics2]

Hi, Trent

You're absolutely right ... but only for one kind of people: Those who really want to learn something.

For the ever increasing number of the Other kinds It's not an insult to their intelligence ( if one ...) but to their sluggishness of mind ... or cupidity.

I'm really upset seeing some people here asking for others to make their projects or find hardw. solutions for them ... and that will make money with the forum's work.

I really think re-centering this Forum on the exclusive PbP/PbC use would solve the "problem" by itself.

Were're back to the "Project section" existing question ... no more !

Regards to KangarooLand

Alain

[T.Jackson]

Thanks a lot Alain.

I studied pretty hard for Applied Reasoning. Regret picking the topic on captial punishment, it did offend one of the markers who consequently dished it off to someone else who in the end gave me a credit for the unit. I think she agreed mostly with what I wrote, and how I presented the argument, she even encourgaed me a bit with it too. I dare say that she has children of her own.

Trent Jackson

[T.Jackson]

You're absolutely right ... but only for one kind of people: Those who really want to learn something.

For the ever increasing number of the Other kinds It's not an insult to their intelligence ( if one ...) but to their sluggishness of mind ... or cupidity.


You are really attempting to stereotype a classification of people with those claims. I totally disagree. It's much like saying that people who don't complete high school will endup as criminals and never turn out to be intelligent individuals.

That's an absolutely crazy, completely biased assumption Alain.

Trent Jackson

[T.Jackson]

Go off profiles Alain, not your own personal biased / vendetta driven assumptions.

Regards,

Trent Jackson

[Acetronics2]

Go off profiles Alain, not your own personal biased / vendetta driven assumptions.

Regards,

Trent Jackson

Hi, Trent

no personnal vendetta ( ! ) or like, I've never sold ( nor wanted to sell ... LoL ! ) any code !!! ... just consider some respect is due to those who GIVE their free time ... and share their experience.

let's just begin by those throwing here some hasty code lines, thinking the whole world already knows about their "great" project, and just asking "what's wrong" , "Very Urgent" ... or never having opened the "Holy Bible" ( say: PbP manual + The relevant Pic Datasheet ) !!!

want some links to "neat" examples ??? ( not only here, it now happens in every forum I watch ... whatever the theme ! )


O tempora ...

Alain

[T.Jackson]

Knowledge received / knowledge given back out to the world is what life is all about. This is why I have posted 21 of my projects on Planet Source Code, close to around 100,000 lines of code all up at a wild guess. I personally expect people to manipulate the code for their own usage, in fact I actually want them to.

I would of course frown upon the thought of someone compiling the entire project "as is" and massively profiting from it. In my book this is nothing short nor far from outright theft. But this is the chance that I'm prepared to take. Most people know what's worth a dollar and what's worth a million. If it's an obvious solution or it has been done before -- probably best to set it free for the entire world to see :)

Trent Jackson

[Luciano]

Go get a life, have a Beer, etc etc.
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/6325/bgvh9.jpg

[skimask]

Go get a life, have a Beer, etc etc.
There's beer in that picture? :D

[malc-c]

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/6325/bgvh9.jpg

What a lovely set of jugs :) :)

[malc-c]

I'm going to sit on the fence on this. On one side I can see how some sarcastic comments or non-helpful responce could upset or alienate a new poster, but also I see Alains point, and all too often on this forum (and others) you see people posting for the first time without first searching / browsing the forum, or doing a google on the subject. I think people would get a better reply and more respect if they are seen to of tried resarching the project first.

I've generally had excellent support from the members here when working on my projects, but then I did come to the table with a work in progress, rather than asking someone to send me the code and schematic from first post :)

[T.Jackson]

Hi, Trent

no personnal vendetta ( ! ) or like, I've never sold ( nor wanted to sell ... LoL ! ) any code !!! ...


Such an "emotive" response in every post that you make with all those "!!!" ...

This is very bad stuff in academia. Guaranteed loss of marks.

FYI: emotive implies "vendetta"

Cheers,

Trent Jackson

[Acetronics2]

Trent,

I sometimes wonder if you know this forum is 1) pbP 2) not yours ... and 3) not " one cent psycho ..."

after all ... recentering this forum was not so bad an idea ...

Alain

[T.Jackson]

I sometimes wonder if you know this forum is 1) pbP 2) not yours ... and 3) not " one cent psycho ..."


That is absolutely impossible to argue with. I indeed have my future plans focused on talking in PBP / electronics or not talking at all.

Trent Jackson

[Acetronics2]

I choose the second option ...without hesitating.

Regards

Alain

[mackrackit]

mas tequila

[skimask]

I choose the second option ...without hesitating.
Regards
Alain

I 2nd your 2nd option...and I'll raise you those 5 jugs from 7 posts ago! :D
Motion carried...

[Acetronics2]

May be Luciano will find us the picture of the maid bringing the jugs to customers ...

( München, Bierfest ... If I'm right ? )

really impressive !

The Maid also ... is impressive !!!

Alain

[mister_e]

Seems a lot of people forgot the Thread title and purpose... so let's try to have fun?
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/yzcEG_JoVuo&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/yzcEG_JoVuo&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Acetronics2]

this is a pure jewel ...

Alain

[T.Jackson]

In an attempt at bringing this thread back on topic ...

In my final assignment for Applied Reasoning I was given a rather interesting question to answer: How can you personally benefit from helping others to learn?

Hmm ... there's not an obvious answer to it, I spent a fair amount of time thinking about it, I got full marks for my response ...

You benefit from helping others to learn because, in a sense you're actually exercising your own knowledge, and the more that you exercise the better that you ultimately become!

Is there a better answer to this question?

Your thoughts are appreciated on this.

Regards,

Trent Jackson

[mackrackit]

And I might add:

What comes around goes around.

Or is that the other way around? :)

[T.Jackson]

And I might add:

What comes around goes around.

Or is that the other way around? :)

From that response I can easily see that you're an "eye for an eye", "you help me change my tyre and I'll help you change yours" -- type of person. This is good, I'm a lot like this too. You're a righteous person.

Trent Jackson

[precision]

In an attempt at bringing this thread back on topic ...

In my final assignment for Applied Reasoning I was given a rather interesting question to answer: How can you personally benefit from helping others to learn?

Hmm ... there's not an obvious answer to it, I spent a fair amount of time thinking about it, I got full marks for my response ...

Is there a better answer to this question?

Your thoughts are appreciated on this.

Regards,

Trent Jackson



Hi, Trent
I think This is the Health question of the week

"When you do good things for others, you do good things for your health. You may also be doing good things for the health of your community, research now shows. An Ontario study on the health benefits of volunteering reveals that it not only improves self-esteem and combats social isolation, but also reduces the impact of stress on the body, lowering blood pressure and even bolstering the immune system."

To be specific...

"Participants identified the following key benefits of volunteer work: skill development, coping with isolation, the chance to 'give back' to the community, to meet people, to enhance job prospects, personal growth, personal empowerment and to gain a new perspective on one's own problems.
"In addition, volunteering was reported to enhance self-esteem through the 'good feelings' derived from helping others and feeling worthwhile and needed.

"Volunteering was described as distracting one from one's aches and pains, providing motivation for rehabilitation and activity, helping overcome social isolation, and providing a sense of community and belonging."

Questions of the Week:
What skills and interests do you have that you could use to help others? What opportunities are available where you live? How could you encourage your peers, friends, and family members to get involved with a volunteer project? How could the community benefit from their involvement? How could they personally benefit?

See this engineers forum

http://cr4.globalspec.com/forum/instrumentation

1000s of engineers, asking nob answer.

[T.Jackson]

"When you do good things for others, you do good things for your health. You may also be doing good things for the health of your community, research now shows. An Ontario study on the health benefits of volunteering reveals that it not only improves self-esteem and combats social isolation, but also reduces the impact of stress on the body, lowering blood pressure and even bolstering the immune system."

Throw in: "For the greater good of humanity" and I like that response. Of course you would need to make reference to those claims -- they're not yours.

Trent Jackson

[precision]

I was read this report many time, But its universal truth.

http://www.accessexcellence.org/HHQ/qow/qow05/qow060515.php



.

[T.Jackson]

I was read this report many time, But its universal truth.

http://www.accessexcellence.org/HHQ/qow/qow05/qow060515.php


There is always questionable truth in every claim, even claims from Doctors.

Trent Jackson

[mackrackit]

There is always questionable truth in every claim, even claims from Doctors.

Trent Jackson

Hey Trent,

When I sign my name on official documents I always put three letters at the end. PHD

[skimask]

When I sign my name on official documents I always put three letters at the end. PHD

BAM!
Game, set, match!

[T.Jackson]

Hey Trent,

When I sign my name on official documents I always put three letters at the end. PHD

Lol ... Oh that's it -- from now on I'll have to make doubly sure that Dave's claims aren't composed of utter subjectivity. I'll be happy enough if I ever get to be able to put b.tech under my name :)

Trent Jackson

[mackrackit]

Lol ... Oh that's it -- from now on I'll have to make doubly sure that Dave's claims aren't composed of utter subjectivity.

Yep, everything is subjective.

Did I forget to mention that PHD stands for Post Hole Digger? :D

[Archangel]

Yep, everything is subjective.

Did I forget to mention that PHD stands for Post Hole Digger? :D

Hey Dave,
That's like my B.E. then, stands for Backyard Engineering . . . :)

[skimask]

Hey Dave,
That's like my B.E. then, stands for Backyard Engineering . . . :)

And I'm an M.D. (Master Debater) :D

But I like this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bologna_process

[mackrackit]

Hey Dave,
That's like my B.E. then, stands for Backyard Engineering . . . :)

Well that is better than a B.S. = B_ _ _ S_ _ _

P.S.
No offense to those that do have real degrees. My wife is an Archaeologist (Masters), and my oldest daughter is currently working on her BS in genetics.

It is a lot of hard work to get those letters!

[T.Jackson]

It is a lot of hard work to get those letters!


24 units for your typical degree in Australia. I've only done 6 so far.

Trent Jackson

[mackrackit]

24 units for your typical degree in Australia. I've only done 6 so far.

Trent Jackson

And a heck of a lot of money. I will be digging Post Holes (with a :D )for some time to come.

[Acetronics2]

My wife is an Archaeologist (Masters), and my oldest daughter is currently working on her BS in genetics.



Hi, Mack

you can quietly leave your body to science ...

you're sure it will stay home !!!

...

Alain

[T.Jackson]

And a heck of a lot of money. I will be digging Post Holes (with a :D )for some time to come.

Personally I'd prefer to detail cars. VIP car care franchise would be a ripper for not that much cash outlay (I have in the past and am still considering one for the future) I absolutely love working on exotic cars. 300ZX, 3000GT / GTO, MR2, HSV. For the same amount of "hard yacka" with digging those post holes you'd rack tripple the amount of cash.

Trent Jackson

[mackrackit]

Hi, Mack

you can quietly leave your body to science ...

you're sure it will stay home !!!

...

Alain
Yes, my home is like a laboratory as is. :eek:
Wife = Archaeologist
Daughter = Genetics
Son 1 = Computer Science
Son 2 = Entomologists

I wonder what they have planned for me? :eek:

[T.Jackson]

What's your definition of science Dave?

Trent Jackson

[skimask]

What's your definition of science Dave?

Science is what you do...when you don't know what you're doing.

[mackrackit]

What's your definition of science Dave?

Trent Jackson
I guess I would have to use a definition along the lines of:
The study and exploration of ______.
The blank being where ever the interest lies. I do not like to use "the physical world" for the blank because then, things like String Theory and Quantum Computers (maybe) would not fall into the realm of science.



Science is what you do...when you don't know what you're doing.

That sounds like the way I write code.

[skimask]

That sounds like the way I write code.

You write code?
I wish I could do that...

[mackrackit]

You write code?
I wish I could do that...
You heard the thing about a hundred monkeys and a hundred typewriters producing novels?
When it comes to coding I am Monkey 99 :)

[T.Jackson]

There's 3 things that make a programmer good.

1. Reasoning
2. Terminology
3. Imagination

Put simply, "reasoning" is logic. Terminology is knowledge. Imagination is passion.

You're an expert programmer if you've got a strong strength in all 3 ...

Trent Jackson

[sayzer]

There's 3 things that make a programmer good.

1. Reasoning
2. Terminology
3. Imagination

Put simply, "reasoning" is logic. Terminology is knowledge. Imagination is passion.

You're an expert programmer if you've got a strong strength in all 3 ...

Trent Jackson



Come on TJ,

Those are what you think.
You should have started with "I think there are three things ....".

The word "good" is not a good choice to express whether a programmer is good or not.

And who determines the level of being "good" for a program or code or programmer?

In mechanical engineering, or chemical engineering or electrical engineering etc. there are rules and formulas that you are entitled to.
Those are the law of the nature, no one can change them.
The engineers in those fields must use those formulas to calculate & built something.
AND if one day the building collapses, then you can use the expression of "good" or "bad" for the engineering.

However, when it comes to programming, there are no rules, just "shoulds" and "should nots"; you design and then create your laws, rules and the nature.

There is always a better code writer TJ, you know it very well.

If your code works, and it does what you need, whether in two lines or 10 lines then it is good enough for the application. And if you are happy with it, then it is good enough programming.


Therefore, there is no good programmer TJ, but good enough programming.

Your three things are something you think.

----------------------

[T.Jackson]

Well ...

They're my original thoughts anyhow. I've read 3 books and I'm a quarter of my way through a bachelor’s degree in Information Technology. Plus I have 5 years experience as a programmer.

Trent Jackson

[mackrackit]

Trent does make a good point :eek:

Need to be able to think logically to solve problems.

Need to have knowledge in the system you are working with and of what ever the program is to accomplish.

Need to have an imagination to put it all together.

And like sayzer said.


If your code works, and it does what you need, whether in two lines or 10 lines then it is good enough for the application. And if you are happy with it, then it is good enough programming.
IMHO :)

[mister_e]

On another forum, one user have the following signature..
'Good enough is perfect'
;) :D

and then ...
http://paulbuchheit.blogspot.com/2007/04/perfect-is-enemy-of-good-enough-and.html

[skimask]

They're my original thoughts anyhow. I've read 3 books and I'm a quarter of my way through a bachelor’s degree in Information Technology. Plus I have 5 years experience as a programmer.
Trent Jackson

Could ya speak up a bit! I can't hear you very well from all the way up there!

[CocaColaKid]

I may be incorrect but I believe this thread has totally lost its original topic of discussion.

People helping people is what this forum is all about is it not? If I have written/modified some code that can be of use to someone they are by means free to use it. I would like nothing better than to know that I helped someone out and that they appreciated it. It's all part of learning I think. I personally prefer the hands approach to learning things. I am quite certain there are numerous others much like myself here also. Reading a smart-ass reply does nothing but consume peoples times and discourage them from posting and sharing future postings. This however is just my 2 cents worth.

[hardcore]

Hi All,
Small comments to social request:
Be helpful otherwise go get a life, have a Beer, etc etc
IF you shift discussion to few newest PICs and print sample codes for old PICs
on this site regularly it will really help.
Working with wide range of PICs on MEL PICBASIC Forum it is the same that walks in wetlands.
Best Regards:)

[El_AMPo]

Maybe i'm reviving the dead with this post (topic refered), but i like to make a statement in behalf of a lot of people here in the forum, including myself.

The only teacher we will ever have for programming microcontrollers (or computer software in my case) is form "learning the way of thinking" out of code examples found on forums like this or on app notes from microchip in this particular case. No microprocessor or embedded systems degree, or any background in raw computer architecture is loaded on our brains, so there are a LOT of holes to fill in this learning curve and we usually miss something.

The original spirit of languages like PicBasic is to give the chance to our kind of people to learn and be able to use this kind of resources, and with PicBasic they made a good job in that congratulations.

The problem begins when you need to learn more than what the compiler gives you.
Examples of this are starting to use and config the hardware peripherals by hand, specific config fuses that are different for every family of microcontroller, assembler code snippets, interrupt routines, etc..
There is no manual for "what is important to look for using this peripheral" or for "what is the approach to learn this" they are huge learning steps if you are not familiar with the architecture of the chips or with assembler code itself (both a necessity for proper understanding of the datasheets). So our best chance to learn is to find some code example that is sufficiently well commented to know what's actually happening and that it actually works and extrapolate by trial and error.

I've already learnt a lot of the background in the last few years but I completely understand some beginners asking for basic "datasheet config" type questions ,or for help in understanding a little bit of assembler, or using the "X" peripheral.

It's difficult to find that kind of teaching and i'd like to thank every member of the forum that gives their time in answering us with some code snippets or solutions. Your time has helped others to be better programmers, and like in many classrooms there is always some "students" that are just lazy and want just to copy the neighbor but others we just want to learn.

Cheers, and the beers are on me ;)