DIY KITs - Survey [Archive] - MEL PICBASIC Forum

T.Jackson

- 12th May 2007, 15:16

I'd like to conduct a bit of a survey on KITs in this thread. I encourage each and every person who reads this to participate by answering the following questions with complete honesty. In your reply you can just simply type T or F sequentially down the screen in reference to the questions.

1. I frequently purchase KITs? (True / False)
2. I occasionally purchase them?
3. I'm too advanced, I never buy them anymore?
4. I have never purchased a KIT before?

5. I buy KITs to learn new skills?
6. I only buy KITs if they do something that I want?
7. I only buy KITs if they don't have surface mount parts?
8. I prefer to buy KITs with surface mount technology?

9. Most KITs now are boring?
10.I prefer KITs that involve digital stuff, like PICs?
11.I prefer audio & other analog KITs?
12.I prefer KITs that require a computer?

13.I don't mind KITs that have single sided PCB's?
14.I refuse to buy KITs unless the boards are solder masked?
15.I refuse to buy KITs that don't have boards with silkscreen overlays?
16.I don't care about the PCB, I'd prefer to save money buying it cheaper?

17.I refuse to buy a KIT if I can go and buy it cheaper already made?
18.I refuse to buy a KIT unless it has been published in a magazine?
19.I refuse to buy a KIT unless I completely understand the circuit?
20.I would like to see more KITs for sale on the internet?

21.I never buy KITs from the internet, I prefer to buy them in a shop?
22.I don't like heavy amounts of soldering in KITs?
23.I like soldering, this is why I buy them?
24.I prefer KITs that come with project boxes & silk screened panels?

Thanks for your participation ;)

Trent Jackson

Pic_User

- 12th May 2007, 15:51

Hi Trent,

1. I frequently purchase KITs? (True / False)
2. I occasionally purchase them?
3. I'm too advanced, I never buy them anymore?
4. I have never purchased a KIT before?

5. I buy KITs to learn new skills?
6. I only buy KITs if they do something that I want?
7. I only buy KITs if they don't have surface mount parts?
8. I prefer to buy KITs with surface mount technology?

9. Most KITs now are boring?
10.I prefer KITs that involve digital stuff, like PICs?
11.I prefer audio & other analog KITs?
12.I prefer KITs that require a computer?

13.I don't mind KITs that have single sided PCB's?
14.I refuse to buy KITs unless the boards are solder masked?
15.I refuse to buy KITs that don't have boards with silkscreen overlays?
16.I don't care about the PCB, I'd prefer to save money buying it cheaper?

17.I refuse to buy a KIT if I can go and buy it cheaper already made?
18.I refuse to buy a KIT unless it has been published in a magazine?
19.I refuse to buy a KIT inless I completely understand the circuit?
20.I would like to see more KITs for sale on the internet?

21.I never buy KITs from the internet, I prefer to buy them in a shop?
22.I don't like heavy amounts of soldering in KITs?
23.I like soldering, this is why I buy them?
24.I prefer KITs that come with project boxes & silk screened panels?

Bold = True
-Adam-

mister_e

- 12th May 2007, 18:45

I don't buy any kit... but sometimes evaluation boards are nice tools.

I do appreciate to read some project article as in many magazine, for curiosity reasons. Mostly to see how others came up with a solution to a specific requirement. Some are perfect, some are nice... some are bad...

T.Jackson

- 13th May 2007, 08:16

chuck

- 13th May 2007, 10:03

2. I occasionally purchase them? (but to be honset it is very rare that I do buy kits nowa days)

6. I only buy KITs if they do something that I want?

10.I prefer KITs that involve digital stuff, like PICs?

13.I don't mind KITs that have single sided PCB's?

17.I refuse to buy a KIT if I can go and buy it cheaper already made?
17A. I resufe to buy a hit if i can make it cheaper myself

21.I prefer to buy them in a shop?

There's my answers.

I like designing my own PCB'S and building them up this way you have a better understanding how they work, I have searched the internet high and low for projects found lot's of them some useful and some not so useful. At the end of the day it all depends on what type of kits that are on offer and how interesting they are and the most important thing is if you need itand have a use for it . I have also found plenty of projects that come with source code this is also good becuase you can modify the code to suit your own needs or use chunks of the code in your own applications. This of coarse is only the case if they are free on the internet has I know if you was to put the source code included in the kit you woudl never sell very many of them

Also I take the view that If you have brought picbasic pro or PDS then the idea you design your own projects that siuts your needs

regards,

chuck

precision

- 13th May 2007, 10:44

Guys, I'm a bit disappointed with the response to this - or rather "lack of it". I'd like to invite you all to spare a few moments and have your say. If you're currently not a member here, I encourage you to become one in order to participate in this survey and have your say. Click here to become a member http://www.picbasic.co.uk/forum/register.php?
.

I never buy eny kits.

Reasion,

We are the manufacturers of kits( Trainer & DIY ) for Schools and colleges eg. Loadcell trainer kit Pressure trainer kit, Torque, LVDTs, RVDTs,Tilt, Accelerometer, Vibration, Instrumentation, A/D, D/A Optical, Temperature, Straingage, Fiber optics, communication, Digital
logic trainer kits...........

.

keithdoxey

- 13th May 2007, 20:20

2. I occasionally purchase them?

6. I only buy KITs if they do something that I want?

I would also add that of the kits that I have bought (mostly over 20 years ago) I dont think I have built one EXACTLY as dictated by the instructions. They usually get "tweaked" slightly so that they do exactly what I want.

I may have assembled the odd one as per the instructions initially but then modified it afterwards.

Melanie

- 13th May 2007, 20:40

Never buy any.

I'm in electronics for a living, last thing I need is to have it as a hobby as well!

Saying that, I was/am a closet fan of Heathkit (way before my time I hasten to add). Crap kits but they did actually work, but more importantly they looked good - and that's where every kit manufacturer since has fallen down on - today they might work well, but they look crap and noddy (there's another word for you to look up Adam). That's only because an old retired Director of the Company was a friend of my Dads and I got to know a lot of the politics and what went on behind the scenes in the early days. Fasinating stories remembered and recounted over long dinners...

mackrackit

- 13th May 2007, 20:56

I do not buy kits for myself or my children. I figure that if you want to learn you will do it yourself. The kits I received as a kid were a big dissapointment.

bbarney

- 13th May 2007, 21:00

I would probably buy a kit if they came with a half decent enclosure to make them look like anything besides just a circuit board which is all you ever seem to get with kit's.here's your kit now good luck finding a case for it and where i live the word is mickey mouse Melanie :)

Pic_User

- 13th May 2007, 21:40

I loved Heath-Kits. They always cost almost as much as the finished product, but taught so much from hands-on building.

I feel like the village noddy because I had to look it up.
Again, the spell checked didn’t like it. But Webster's 1828 dictionary and the Oxford Dictionary had no problem with it. Can hardly wait for Monday morning, to dazzle my coworkers. The family members are already unimpressed.:)

Bbarney looks like you are right about Mickey Mouse, translation.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:
Noddy is sometimes used as an adjective to describe something as small or childish, for example a "Noddy guide to electronics" being a simplified primer. (Compare with "Mickey Mouse".)

–Adam-

bcd

- 13th May 2007, 22:34

Growing up in the UK I was always working on some project or another, and loved the Maplin kits, although I think I only ever finished a few. A lot of the projects in the other mags didn't have kits available, or you had to order the PCBs from overseas, so I didn't do much with them.

Unfortunately I was one of those people who did it for a hobby first and then made it a job - does that make it a Jobbie ? (You might NOT want to put that in Wikipedia)

When I moved to Australia 10 years ago I was blown away by the availability of the kits that appeared in the Electronics Mags over here. Three major electronics firms would make complete versions of designs from the mags. One think I did find disappointing was the availability of things like PICs and specialist parts.

Things are better now with companies like Futurelec and at a pinch (or an arm and a leg) Farnell for all my PIC needs. Dontronics is also a favourite for all the more advanced stuff. As for kits, companies like kitsrus.com in Hong Kong have some good kits, although most are short form with limited instructions.

I still love a good kit, but I also like a good article that explains the how and why the designer has chosen to do things that way. Kits with PICs are great, as long as the author explains what's going on in the code - even in rough form. I think too many people getting into the game today assume all you need is a single IC to do everything.

Just my au$0.02 (0.001p) worth.

Bill.

T.Jackson

- 14th May 2007, 04:32

Thanks for your participation everyone. However I'd like a few 100 or so replies to this thread, so please take just a few brief moments to participate.

BobK

- 14th May 2007, 13:38

Hello,

I was a big fan of Heath Kits growing up. Where'd they go? I used to be real good at building things. Wirewrap and point to point. Too many to count! I got away from electronics for 10 years because the eyes were going bad. Trifocals now and someone needed something special so here I am back to building things. I like the easy availability of PCB's so I buy 3 boards and build something. I would only buy a kit if it was something I realy wanted and didn't want to take the time to just build it myself. Having an enclosure that looks good is important. My current project was built around a small enclosure from TEKO so it was relatively easy to build and looks very presentable to my customer.

I really would like to get into SMT but it looks so teadious to do with the solder screens, paste, tweezers, trembling hands, oven, etc. Another current project is perfect for SMT but only if the customer wants more than 100. Still in prototype testing.

I did see a kit I was thinking of buying from Jaycar though and that was the clock with the seconds LEDs filling up as the seconds went by. Just never got around to ordering it.

Hope this helps Trent.

BobK

bbarney

- 14th May 2007, 15:29

Sorry Trent I meant to do this in my other post

F 1. I frequently purchase KITs? (True / False)
T 2. I occasionally purchase them?
F 3. I'm too advanced, I never buy them anymore?
F 4. I have never purchased a KIT before?

F 5. I buy KITs to learn new skills?
T 6. I only buy KITs if they do something that I want?
F 7. I only buy KITs if they don't have surface mount parts?
F 8. I prefer to buy KITs with surface mount technology?

F 9. Most KITs now are boring?
T 10.I prefer KITs that involve digital stuff, like PICs?
F 11.I prefer audio & other analog KITs?
T 12.I prefer KITs that require a computer?

T 13.I don't mind KITs that have single sided PCB's?
F 14.I refuse to buy KITs unless the boards are solder masked?
F 15.I refuse to buy KITs that don't have boards with silkscreen overlays?
T16.I don't care about the PCB, I'd prefer to save money buying it cheaper?

F 17.I refuse to buy a KIT if I can go and buy it cheaper already made?
F 18.I refuse to buy a KIT unless it has been published in a magazine?
F 19.I refuse to buy a KIT unless I completely understand the circuit?
T 20.I would like to see more KITs for sale on the internet?

F 21.I never buy KITs from the internet, I prefer to buy them in a shop?
F 22.I don't like heavy amounts of soldering in KITs?
T 23.I like soldering, this is why I buy them?
T 24.I prefer KITs that come with project boxes & silk screened panels?

T.Jackson

- 14th May 2007, 18:51

I did see a kit I was thinking of buying from Jaycar though and that was the clock with the seconds LEDs filling up as the seconds went by. Just never got around to ordering it.

That clock is very good but grossly over priced. I kind of know of the designer, I actually worked on his wireless nurse call system in my previous job. Ironically, the built in clock on this system was quite possibly its only major fault. It kept time within +/- 10 mins a month. I was constantly called out to adjust these things. I have heard that early versions of the LED clock also kept time less than perfectly but the problem has since been rectified. All told - $180 is just way too much of an ask. No thanks. Oh! and I'll add that it took almost 2 years to develop !!! (This would possibly explain the price tag)

Pic_User

- 14th May 2007, 19:56

That clock is very good but grossly over priced. I kind of know of the designer, I actually worked on his wireless nurse call system in my previous job. Ironically, the built in clock on this system was quite possibly its only major fault. It kept time within +/- 10 mins a month. I was constantly called out to adjust these things. I have heard that early versions of the LED clock also kept time less than perfectly but the problem has since been rectified. All told - $180 is just way too much of an ask. No thanks. Oh! and I'll add that it took almost 2 years to develop !!! (This would possibly explain the price tag)
How about....
We could decide upon a nifty PIC / electronics project that we want to do together.

Say a clock very similar to Jaycar clock:
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KC5404

Work together on the ideas to be incorporated into the project.
Collectively, write, test, debug the PBP code. Test till we have a working prototype.
Design the electronics, lay out the printed circuit board (PCB).
Get the boards etched, (prepaid (paypal) by members wanting one).
Buy the parts in bulk, (prepaid (paypal) by members wanting them).
Ship the “kits”, (prepaid (paypal) by members wanting them).

Get the kits in the mail.
Put the kits together, discuss problems, mods, ideas for changes in the PBP code.

This all may fall flat and we loose our invested money, but what if it did work, what’s the next kit?
This would be interesting even to the people not “buying the kit”, as a group effort.
Maybe, not the clock but something less costly to start.
-Adam-

T.Jackson

- 14th May 2007, 20:14

bcd

- 14th May 2007, 21:58

T.Jackson

- 14th May 2007, 22:02

How about a PIC controlled binary clock?. Something that is a fun project, but also useful to learn binary? (Although most of them are actually BCD rather than true binary).

Good for beginners and nerdy enough for people like me !!!

Bill.

Yeah - that could possibly be something interesting and even legal too. BCD - Binary Coded Decimal is as such binary. BCD is the binary equivalent of a decimal value. Binary is a base 2 number system wit LSB to the right and MSB to the left. 128 64 32 16 8 4 2 1 - these are the actual decimal weights of the bits. When a bit is set, in BCD, it's weight is added together with other set bits and their weights to form BCD.

keithdoxey

- 14th May 2007, 22:24

Hi Adam,

Jaycar Electronics actual own the copyright to that project. Certain they would pursue legal action if an inferior (copied / similar) product became available. Some may argue that a similar product with some unique character would fall under the Creative Comms act. http://creativecommons.org/

I don't recommend doing a project like this and trying to sell it. The director of Jaycar is a very rich, powerful & highly persuasive man (From what I've heard). Not a good idea bud.

There are already similar products in existance. The Broadcast Industry has used similar looking LED clocks for many years such as this one sold by Canford Audio

http://www.canford.co.uk/commerce/productdetails.aspx?productid=58-782

The Broadcast clocks are generally slaved from a master time controller to ensure all displays are exactly the same but the general look of the Jaycar project isnt significantly different to those existing commercial products.

Reading the description of how the Jaycar kit animates the process of illuminating the next second LED would appear to be about the only unique aspect of their design.

Please note that I am not advocating that anyone should rip off someone elses design but pointing out the similar products can be developed by different people in different locations at the same time.

For many years TV stations have used graphics of clock with seconds appearing as the minute progresses.

Several years ago, Maplin published a design for an MSF controlled digital clock using a PIC and BiColour LED displays. If the MSF radio signal was absent the clock would keep time by its own crystal reference but the display would be red to indicate that it may not be totally accurate. When displaying the time received from the MSF radio signal the display was green.

T.Jackson

- 14th May 2007, 22:41

Yeah - still relatively hesitant to do it unless it had many unique features and looked miles apart. The Jaycar clock wacher's KIT is the only commercial KIT of its kind to my knowledge. All told, I"m lead to believe that it's actually not that popular. Not a failure but possibly not doing as well as expected. This is the impression that I get from Jaycar sales staff.

RussMartin

- 14th July 2007, 00:30

Oh, wow--wish I'd seen this thread sooner!

I tried doing True/False on the questions and couldn't; my answers aren't that simple. Like BobK, I've been in this a long, long time (he's got about 4 years on me). My first kit was a shortwave receiver, a Hallicrafters S-119K "Sky Buddy II" in 1963. (I still have it.) Lots of kits in those days--Heath and Knight were the big ones I remember. My first ham transmitter was a Heathkit DX-35.

I think a nifty (look that up, too!) product line to hit the kit market is the Elecraft stuff (http://www.elecraft.com/). High-end, but very nice.

Like Melanie, I do this stuff for a living, but I still putter around breadboarding stuff and buying the occasional kit. Unlike Melanie, I wouldn't classify the Heath line as "crap kits". They offered a balanced line, from the simple to the elaborate. There were a few duds, to be sure. But (for example) the Heathkit "Twoer" (one of two products--the other was the "Sixer"--generically called "lunchboxes" because of the handle on top) did more to put hams on 144 MHz (2 meters) than any other single product in history--and it did so without busting your wallet.

I think there's always a market for good, well-designed kits. I believe Velleman has demonstrated that, as has Ramsey (http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/hk/). Last year, I redesigned a product as a kit (http://www.i-zombie.com/pages/sc1201k-lightning-controller.php). The biggest challenge was doing a decent instruction manual--it was unbelievably time-consuming!

Trent, it sounds like you're doing some market research. How about telling us more?

T.Jackson

- 14th July 2007, 02:59

Secretly, unbeknown to a lot of us, I think there's quite a few silent contenders on here doing exactly just that - market research. Conclusion with what I've seen so far; most people are extremely creative, each thriving on radical new wisdom of their very own. Any KIT that does much less than allows them to fuel this new insight would be a hard sell. Artistic drawing programs would be a good sell around here. I'm just as gifted, believe me when I say that I know what I'm talking about.