Proton+ and PicBasicpro [Archive]

mister_e

- 5th January 2006, 16:21

That's a dangerous question to ask here or on the other camp... BTW.

Is it better or not?

Depending what you think it's better. Yes it provide more built-in function than PBP like Keypad, some GLCD support, Trig and few more. Is it better because of it? It's up to you to answer to that.

Once you played with PBP and build your own routine that work great... why changing to another. It's My own opinion and i'm not going to start another Heated debate.

I'd tried Proton in the past and stop using it like some user here for various reasons.

BTW it's not too hard to translate from PBP to Proton. There's a few difference in the coding. They provide a demo version (maybe too much limited for serious evaluation but... it's free).

Is it an upgrade of PBP? As it's not made by the same company, it's not. PBP will always be an upgrade of PBC.

Yeah i know that i'm not really clear but... too easy to start flames here... as we saw many times in the past. You can even do a search with PROTON in this board to see some comments on.

Good luck and think more than twice before doing your move. It's still your cash :)

Ralph ? ;)

NavMicroSystems

- 5th January 2006, 17:36

Rob, it is your decission.

All I can tell is:

I'm using PBP for a couple of years now and it is rock-solid.

I have purchased PDS as well and have tried to migrate some of my PBP projects to PDS with no luck.
(i.e. multiple I2C buses were not supported in PDS)

I have stopped using PDS, so has Steve, and I know some other serious developers that have stopped using it.

I'm not saying one is better than the other, it is just that PDS was the wrong tool for my applications.

Rob Martin

- 5th January 2006, 19:04

Thanks for the replies Guys.

I had no intention of starting a flame war and assumed that most people on here are sensible (from my experience).

I guess i'm looking for the easy option :) to those coding nightmares.

I'd still like to hear from anyone who has tried both. I did download the lite version and it did import some of my codes but I'm not convinced yet.

Rob

Melanie

- 5th January 2006, 19:50

I have also tried Proton however I don't use it.

My boss, who on a scale of knowledge makes me look like an amateur, expressly forbade it's use.

For all projects using PICs I use MeLabs PICBasic Pro exclusively.

We have ZERO software issues with our products and everyone sleeps at night.

Charles Linquis

- 5th January 2006, 21:47

Melanie,

I can't imagine anyone knowing a lot more than you do, so I'm curious. Is it appropriate to ask who you work for and at what company?

Rob Martin

- 5th January 2006, 23:22

Melanie

Thanks for the response and all noted.
The reason i was looking around for another solution is having invested 20k+ and 2 years of my spare time in a pic project I no longer have the time to learn the finer points of PBP as my main business demands all my time, I was looking for the easy way out, the magic solution as it were.

I know there are no quick fixes but it never hurts to ask.
So the next question would be where do i find a good freelance and trustworthy pic progammer?

Rob
(I wont mention Proton again)

Melanie

- 6th January 2006, 09:41

Rob, there are many competent people on this list - it doesn't take too much effort to discover who they are. The professionals will charge MONEY (ie those green crinkly drinking vouchers usually found with a picture of some past or present head of state on them). The quality of the finished job will be proportionate to what you pay... (find John Ruskins' 1819-1900 quote on the subject)...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Law_of_Business_Balance

Charles, I don't publicly advertise who I work for, or use the forum for commercial advantage.

PJALM

- 8th January 2006, 08:44

I agree that Proton may have a lot of built-in functions but i don't think it can even come close to the performance and stability of PBP. So far PBP is the only Basic Compiler I have found that supports the Microchip USB Bootloader so for this reason alone I stick to using it.

mister_e

- 8th January 2006, 18:01

Melanie
So the next question would be where do i find a good freelance and trustworthy pic progammer?

Microchip PICSTART
Microchip ICD-2
MELABS EPIC
BK Precision 844a (Same as one Elnec model i can't remind)

The above are really great, the only one i don't have is the Melabs. BUT i heard many good comments on. Look that PICSTART is on the last production anyway... many USB PIC are not yet supported... as now. Seems ICD-2 the new way to go.

BK Precision (or ELNEC) is a universal one. Usefull if you need to program/read some EEPROM and you don't want to spend time to build your own OR you don't trust any JDM or else close-to-be-freebies like that (PONYPROG, IC-PROG with their XYZ interface)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Choosing the easy way is great... of course time=money. But i always prefer to trust only one person... myself. That way, if there's any problem, i'm the only one to blame.

Also by using the easy way or the-pre-cooked one serve on a plate will never ever make you understand what you do. Yeah it will work, but in case not... how will you solve the problem?

Just few things to think about. Not meant to be offendant for some sensitive OX and BOT user here ;)

PJALM

- 9th January 2006, 18:46

I use the Microchip PicKit2 to do ICSP Programming. It works and its a very good price. You can make an adapter to do the programming of the chips directly.

You can get it here.

http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1406&dDocName=en023805

picnaut

- 15th January 2006, 04:55

Hi,

My personal opinion, if all of your code is currently in PBP and you haven't had any problems, you might as well stay with it. Especially, if you already have a bunch of tried and true routines.
It's not worth the trouble to convert your programs over to Proton.

However, if you're just starting out, I'd recommend PDS.
I've had no problems with either product mind you, but I just like being able to have an open dialog with the creator of the product and having my input count. Also, the free updates are pretty cool too. I just read a thread on this forum where, in order to get his code to work, some guy needed to upgrade from version 2.45 of PBP to version 2.46 for a fix. Fortunately, PDS users don't have to pay for fixes (no flame wars please).

Again, I've personally never had any problems with PBP. All of my programs worked well. I just found development with PDS was a lot smoother and faster. At least that was my experience. By the way, I used to program in assembly using MPLAB, so I've earned the right to go the easy route.

:)

Take care everyone.

Regards,

mister_e

- 15th January 2006, 11:27

Chances are that your upgrade are free. Regarding the 2 latest upgrade of the other compiler wich i remove the name in the following quote.

Additions, amendments and fixes made in version 3.1.9 of the XXXXXX+ Compiler. (11th January 2006)

ADDITIONS
None

AMENDMENTS
None

FIXES
None

Note. This version has been created in order to overwrite a corrupted file download of version 3.1.8.

Additions, amendments and fixes made in version 3.1.8 of the XXXXXX+ Compiler. (4th January 2006)
.
.
.
.
FIXES
Fixed recognition of PAUSE, PAUSEUS, DEBUG, DEBUGIN, and LCDOUT for PBP compatability.
.
.
.
.

Who wants to pay for something corrupted? Oh well, at least it's now PBP compatible :)

mister_e

- 15th January 2006, 11:53

pause 500
pauseus 500
lcdout $fe,1,"hello"

<img src=http://www.picbasic.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=731&d=1137325991>

picnaut

- 15th January 2006, 17:51

Hi,

Well, I guess this is a case of one person seeing the glass as half full and the other seeing it as half empty. I choose to see it as half full, but to each his own.

Check out this link:
http://www.melabs.com/support/upgrade.htm

Look at the list of fixes in version 2.46.
If I'm not mistaken, each PBP user needs to pay to get those fixes.
Proton users don't have to pay for bug fixes, nor added features.

When we DO notice a bug, it's generally taken care of in short order.
I, personally, would rather have that. That's just my opinion anyway.

Regards,

mister_e

- 15th January 2006, 18:08

Well, if we DO found a bug in PBP, it's working the same way... User post their question on the forum, some user may reply or not. In the worst case that nobody know why, the Melabs customer support is incredible fast too. Charles and/or Jeff will'nt charge for a single bug if it's related to the compiler itself AND the fixe will be include in the next release...

oh by the way, why we still talk about that? Let's shake our hands Picnaut and let's work with the product we choose.

BTW is it still cold and cloudy in Vancouver?

picnaut

- 15th January 2006, 20:01

Hello,

Although there is good information on this forum, I feel that, in order to get a more balanced view (i.e. the other side of the coin), Rob (the originator of this thread) should post his question on the Proton user site as well (if he hasn't done so already).

Click on this link:
http://www.picbasic.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=67

If I were you Rob, I would direct my question toward former (or even current) PBP users who are now using Proton primarily. Especially those who have converted large PBP programs to Proton. Find out what their experiences have been.

And Steve, as for the weather in Vancouver, we are on our way to a record of "consecutive days with measurable precipitation". Although yesterday was sunny and warm, it rained for a while in the early morning hours, so the record is still set to be broken.

J. Mark Wolf

- 16th January 2006, 13:00

If I were you Rob, I would direct my question toward former (or even current) PBP users who are now using Proton primarily. Especially those who have converted large PBP programs to Proton. Find out what their experiences have been.

I'm happy to relate my experiences with MBasic, PicBasicPro and Proton.

I had a large Basic Micro ATOM program that filled a PIC16F877. The BasicMicro tools had all the extensions and modifiers I needed but I had a lot more coding to do on my aviation related instrumentation project, and it did not support PIC 18F parts with the larger code space.

I bought PicBasicPro which does support the larger 18F devices, and ported the entire program over from MBasic in about 3 evenings, including the clumsy hoops I had to jump through to get PicBasicPro to handle the strings, 32-bit integer math, and byte arrays. I really didn't like the lack of 32-bit integer math, the poor string and array handling.

I stumbled on the Proton Development Studio website, downloaded and read the manual, haunted the Proton forum for a week, and decided to buy the PDS v3 package.

I had the entire PicBasicPro program, which originally filled a PIC18F877, completely ported over to Proton and running in 1.5 evenings. The excellent error handling made it a snap to spot the syntactical differences, and it even made altenative suggestions for command usage.

The Proton tool suite offers outstanding string handling, 32-bit math, and byte array handling, it offers much more than ALL the competition in the way of LCD and compact flash card extensions (just fer instance), and the standard manual BLOWS AWAY ALL the competition.

Don't look now BasicMicro and MELabs, but Crownhill Proton Development Suite is way out front. No, I don't work for Proton. I'm just happy that after spending the money I have on all 3 packages, that I finally have a tool that doesn't leave me wanting for more.

BasicMicro and MELabs have gotten "tired" and allowed the new "kid in town" to lap them. Congratulations to Proton and shame on BasicMicro and MELabs.

picnaut

- 16th January 2006, 15:39

Hi Mr. Wolf,

To avoid a "flame war", you may want to limit your "enthusiastic" comments to the Proton User site.

Just a suggestion.

Have a great day everyone.

Regards,

mister_e

- 16th January 2006, 19:32

Bah easy and/or faster way is still the only way to never learn and be scewed up if it doesn't work as you wish and it's not related to your own fault.

I tried PROTON too before AND became a BETA TESTER for them... and i returned to PBP ONLY. I guess nobody's working the same way.

Oh well, if i'd, and many others, never tried to learn something diging in datasheet, here and there.... .... .... to know how to make workable XYZ routine or hardware, i'd probably did the same thing myself too... but not my case, i still prefer to learn something.

I have no regrets in the cash investment, it's tax deductible anyway but not he time i lost playing with ;)

J. Mark Wolf

- 16th January 2006, 20:29

Hi Mr. Wolf,

To avoid a "flame war", you may want to limit your "enthusiastic" comments to the Proton User site.

Point well taken.

Someone asked, so..., and I feel that paying customers are entitled to grumble a little bit. I got it out of my system now!

picnaut

- 17th January 2006, 18:23

I tried PROTON too before AND became a BETA TESTER for them...

Um, what beta testing did you do exactly?

I mean, beta testing implies that you're in a "recognized" group of beta-testers who are testing stuff and providing performance feedback to the developers.

It also implies that you are "slightly higher up the food chain" than the average user.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this Steve.

Regards,

Ron Marcus

- 17th January 2006, 22:11

Regards,
__________________
---> picnaut (aka Mister P - PBP "Ultra" Beta Tester)

Am I to assume the next step up is "Master" Beta Tester? I've heard about that group! (Sorry, I couldn't resist that one! Disregard this post, in fact, don't read it...Stop now...I mean it! It's a total waste of time. Skip right to the next one.Thanks, Ron)

picnaut

- 17th January 2006, 22:14

Um, that made me chuckle.
:)

badrad

- 17th January 2006, 22:56

I heard the "Master" Beta Tester group only test their personal code privately, but may resort to applying various forms of mechanical stimulus to generate specific test outcomes...

lab310

- 18th January 2006, 09:46

I've been a PBP user some years now, and it served me well. But, as my projects start to become more & more complicated, I've begun to realize that PBP's capabilities won't be enough for my work. Missing math, string , arrays... are starting to be main problem in all of my new projects, and it is more noticeable now when I switched from 16F to 18F series. After investigating, I found only 3 valuable "players" on market: PBP, Proton+ and MicroBasic. A plain and simple truth is that PBP is less capable compiler of those 3. MicroBasic proved to be good compiler, bat buggy and it has more C than basic like syntax (and I REALLY HATE C). But Proton+ was a revelation to me: it has almost same syntax as PBP and it is loaded with features. Also it is as solid as PBP (i.e. rock solid).So far I didn't try PDS but only older version of standalone compiler, but probably will buy PDS in near future.
My advice to you is: If you are a begginer, go with Microbasic (if you are on the budget) or Proton PDS. With both of them you got more capabilities, but also something even more valuable: the product that is developing, and for witch you can get a new features (for free also).
If you already have some valuable project in PBP, stick with it as long as you can, although limited it is a stable and good compiler, and you will save some money buy not bying another compiler.

BigWumpus

- 18th January 2006, 17:15

Oh,

it's crazy, that this threat isn't stopped long ago...
I have the same question, but in this forum you should not ask such questions and the PDS-Forum doesn't work and nobody is interested to get him to work (I can't register).

I've looked at PDS for local variables or function-declaration, subroutines with parameters etc.... but I don't find it!
The demo doesn't support my PICs here and ...

So I'm working furtherone with PBP and write all the missing things by my own hands ;-) But I think greater projects (>16F876, 18F252) were done better with PDS.

mister_e

- 18th January 2006, 22:49

Um, what beta testing did you do exactly?

I mean, beta testing implies that you're in a "recognized" group of beta-testers who are testing stuff and providing performance feedback to the developers.

It also implies that you are "slightly higher up the food chain" than the average user.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this Steve.

Regards,

Once i buyed AND register my compiler, i've been asked to join the BETA TESTER team (yeah no freebies, no better price, not much advantage than other user but a newer compiler version... also named BETA version ). I WAS a beta tester for few months, trying, get issues, trying to find fix, posting in the 'Hidden' BETA TESTER area, got some reply from a person X, finnaly post 1-2 question elsewhere, never gpt any replys.... SO i found that it wasn't my place and more than likely the people who i posted those comments/question/fixed didn't care so i finnally gave up but keep my 'kind of privilege'.

Few months later, i post my comment on a specific thread, wich seems to have chucked some sensitive CROWNHILL'S developper and/or developper's friend... so they gently remove me from the team. Period.

i think it's enough. Wanna have more comments and the whole story, the related thread? => PM.

mister_e

- 19th January 2006, 01:52

Oh by the way...

If you're so totally in love with Proton, why on earth do you spend so much time on the PBP forum?

Why are you not sharing your obvious wealth of knowledge with Proton users on their forum?

Yeah i know you`re e registered PBP owner but, if PROTON is the only you use...

Also read the Proton todays post under 18F8722 AND Consider this

Added support for devices: - v3.1.7
18F6310, 18F6390, 18F6410, 18F6490, 18F6520, 18F6525, 18F6621, 18F6622, 18F6627, 18F6722
18F8310, 18F8390, 18F8410, 18F8490, 18F8520, 18F8525, 18F8621, 18F8627, 18F8722

When all you have done is to copy/paste "14-bit core" header files, is this really added support?

No one could have ever tested a "single line of code" on these new processors with this
NEW version of this compiler, so how the hell do they know the compiler works with them?

Why should anyone trust a compiler when they can't even get the header files correct?

I simply do NOT have the time to sit & verify hundreds of header files against a datasheet
before I use the compiler or a new PIC. Even an old PIC. How do I trust the header files if
I don't sit down & verify "every single one" first?

These files are "WAY" too important to simply clone for all new processors.

Do "I" trust it. Absolutely NOT.

Oh well i guess i'd go "WAY" too far this time. Sorry for sensitive ears ;)

picnaut

- 19th January 2006, 02:26

Oh by the way...

If you're so totally in love with Proton, why on earth do you spend so much time on the PBP forum?

Well, first of all Steve, in answer to your question (which kind of sounds like my 13 year old is asking it), I actually come in here to help people, and rarely to "start" a conversation about PDS versus PBP. If you hadn't noticed, I didn't start this thread. Besides, your question is kind of silly. You have more posts on the PDS forum than I have on this forum so, "if you're so totally in love with PBP...", well, you get my point.

Anyway, I browse the PBP forum and see if there's something general that I can help people with (i.e. hardware, logic flow). For instance, I noticed that someone wanted a program that would back up code automatically. So, I wrote a piece of software that works with PBP and PDS. I did that to help other PIC programmers. But, maybe, I shouldn't bother contributing on this forum any more.

In any case, I didn't join this thread to start trouble, just to provide a little balance. And, as for your "Proton beta tester" contributions, I've heard both sides of the story regarding this and, personally, I wouldn't rate you too highly as a Proton authority. Something tells me your DJ skills are probably suspect too.

:)

Have a nice day.

mister_e

- 19th January 2006, 02:33

As i told i was a BETA TESTER

Have a nice day as well :)

leisryan

- 8th November 2007, 02:22

Well, first of all Steve, in answer to your question (which kind of sounds like my 13 year old is asking it), I actually come in here to help people, and rarely to "start" a conversation about PDS versus PBP. If you hadn't noticed, I didn't start this thread. Besides, your question is kind of silly. You have more posts on the PDS forum than I have on this forum so, "if you're so totally in love with PBP...", well, you get my point.

Anyway, I browse the PBP forum and see if there's something general that I can help people with (i.e. hardware, logic flow). For instance, I noticed that someone wanted a program that would back up code automatically. So, I wrote a piece of software that works with PBP and PDS. I did that to help other PIC programmers. But, maybe, I shouldn't bother contributing on this forum any more.

In any case, I didn't join this thread to start trouble, just to provide a little balance. And, as for your "Proton beta tester" contributions, I've heard both sides of the story regarding this and, personally, I wouldn't rate you too highly as a Proton authority. Something tells me your DJ skills are probably suspect too.

:)

Have a nice day.

Sir:

Have you tried Porting PDS "SD file system" fom Proton to PBP? I am in need of help using MMC and SD as a scoreboard logger and directly output as excel file

Yours Trully,
Ryan

picnaut

- 8th November 2007, 04:49

Uh. You've picked a strange thread to place your post on, and an even stranger choice of member. I don't use PBP anymore.
However, I'm sure that there are some members here who oculd help.
Post your question in the "mel PIC BASIC Pro" section maybe.

Cheers.

leisryan

- 9th November 2007, 00:38

precision

- 9th November 2007, 07:58

I have made several Industrial project on PBP, i using PBP since 1999, All my prjects are running with great stability. I have also purchased ( Second hand PDS with usbdongle) only for 32 bit ( LONG ) variable. but stability not seen ( Strange Wrong behavior in industrial environment in my NC Milling machine. ).

But. Now PBP have 32 bit var. & I think mister_e's keypad routine and Darrel Taylor 's LCD BARgraphs, Instant Interrupts and enypin routine makes it easy and more powerfull.