3D printer

[xapmanis]

Hello, i would like to ask if there is anyone familliar with 3D printers.

I want to buy one. I have found this cheap model 3Drag 3D printer (https://store.open-electronics.org/index.php?_route_=3D%2FPrinter%2F3Drag+3D+printer+ KIT&utm_content=buffer98605&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer)
I would like to buy a printer with printing height accuracy 0,1mm or under this.
Any sugestions or help from someone more experienced would be appreciated :)

[Demon]

Hi folks,

I've taken the plunge a few weeks ago and I've been shopping for a 3D printer with a large platform to make small cases and custom components. Has anyone else started yet?

I've been looking for a dual-extruder so I could print 2-colour parts. So far the most interesting printer I've found is this one from 3d printer supermarket:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Color-Touch-Display-Auto-Leveling-Dual-Extruder-3D-Printer-with-Larger-Print-Bed-200-200-280mm/32763688203.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.69.irWdva&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10065_10 068_10000009_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10060_1 0061_10062_10056_10055_10037_10054_301_10033_10059 _10032_10099_10078_10079_10077_427_10103_10073_101 02_10096_10052_10050_10051-10033_10037_10077,searchweb201603_3,afswitch_5&btsid=2b7239e4-e517-4991-a4c2-7a0d811bf60a

I'm waiting on replies from the supplier for prices with 2 additionnal rolls. It comes with white PLA, but I also want black and transparent (ideal to make backlit buttons).

Robert

[Ioannis]

Hi Robert.

Have not yet, but want to. I don't like the little steps that the final object has on most of the printers I 've seen. You have to polish the surface to make it level and feel nice.

I guess is the price one has to pay for the technology.

The machine you linked looks pretty impressive!

Looking forward to your printings!

Ioannis

[andywpg]

I've had this one (https://printrbot.com/shop/assembled-simple-metal/) for a few months now - very happy with it. The resolution is .2mm though (actually .1984mm) and I think you are looking at pretty heavy cash for ACCURATE .1mm resolution. Lots claim it, its hard to do.

I have modified mine to have a heated bed and have come up with some cool things to get parts that are straight.

I use OpenSCAD for design (its free) - but its another programming language to learn. It took a while, but I'm getting better at it.

Andy

[Demon]

I tried a few 3D software. Worked with Blender but it's rated professional. I'll forget how to use it if I don't draw for weeks or months

Picked up MeshMixer and haven't looked back. Rated intermediate, love how it works.

Tested Cura to do the slicing, looks like I'll be using that one.

Designing a Korry switch with dual LEDs for flight sim.

http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af37/DemonDNF/3D%20Printing/Korry%20v2%20topside_zpswtdtu4ve.png (http://s991.photobucket.com/user/DemonDNF/media/3D%20Printing/Korry%20v2%20topside_zpswtdtu4ve.png.html)

http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af37/DemonDNF/3D%20Printing/Korry%20v2%20underside_zpsuq4pjzoc.png (http://s991.photobucket.com/user/DemonDNF/media/3D%20Printing/Korry%20v2%20underside_zpsuq4pjzoc.png.html)

Need to finish up the button.

I wanted to see if I could draw to spec before buying a printer.

[Demon]

Hi folks,

Still shopping and comparing products. There's a mini-revolution going on right now; pricing are changing weekly.

My requirements are:

- triple nozzles, to print a backlit cap for a switch. My design is simple, clear interior, black shell and thin white layer for the text. I'll need to experiment just how thin white must be and stuff like that.

- a large print surface because I want to be able to print custom keypads for flight sims.

- a solid frame that will last years.

- quality print, no fuzzy surface.


HE3D.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/he3d-auto-level-large-build-area-E3D-nozzle-triple-extruder-tricolor-3d-printer-diy-kit-support/32711871003.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.2.URRFhy&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10065_10 068_10000009_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10110_1 0111_10112_10060_10113_10062_10114_10056_503_10055 _10037_10054_301_10033_10059_10032_10099_501_10078 _10079_10077_10000012_10103_10073_10102_10000015_1 0096_10052_10053_10107_10050_10106_10051-10037_10077,searchweb201603_3,afswitch_2,single_so rt_0_default&btsid=6418c2b4-c9d3-4e2c-beef-d0b4a9d6bdc0

Triple nozzles, large print surface, low quality prints. I would expect that quality from a $100 printer, not $475 USD.


CreatBot.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DX-03-Plus-Ultrahigh-Triple-Extrudes-Metal-Frame-3D-Printer-Build-Size-300-250-520-mm/32476049340.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.96.URRFhy&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10065_10 068_10000009_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10110_1 0111_10112_10060_10113_10062_10114_10056_503_10055 _10037_10054_301_10033_10059_10032_10099_501_10078 _10079_10077_10000012_10103_10073_10102_10000015_1 0096_10052_10053_10107_10050_10106_10051,searchweb 201603_3,afswitch_2,single_sort_0_default&btsid=6418c2b4-c9d3-4e2c-beef-d0b4a9d6bdc0

Triple nozzles, large print surface, waaay too expensive at $2,633 USD.


I've contacted a few manufacturers in China and waiting for them to all respond.


movement designs:
I've noticed 3 main designs so far:

bearing wheels:
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1UnoJLXXXXXcbXpXXq6xXFXXX8/202550390/HTB1UnoJLXXXXXcbXpXXq6xXFXXX8.jpg

I would expect the wheels to wear with use, thus affecting print quality.


Triple axis:
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1wGBwOFXXXXaDXFXXq6xXFXXXZ/229850577/HTB1wGBwOFXXXXaDXFXXq6xXFXXXZ.jpg?size=97496&height=661&width=750&hash=5675faad7499c76f69a7e22c98d99b6f

I have read several negative comments on quality and clogging. I would not trust a pivoting head on a budget printer to remain perfectly flat across the outer edges of a print.


Screws and bearings:
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1P.wrNXXXXXcKapXXq6xXFXXXY/201693691/HTB1P.wrNXXXXXcKapXXq6xXFXXXY.jpg?size=125945&height=1023&width=800&hash=7625bee0109bbfefe1eedc714820fca5

I would trust these to be more reliable of the three. Some have two for the Z axis, some only have one. I would expect the vertical beam to flex somewhat on the single design.

Be careful with bearings, some use ball bearings, some use bushings (these do not last long).


Frame designs:

Boxed:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DX-03-Plus-Ultrahigh-Triple-Extrudes-Metal-Frame-3D-Printer-Build-Size-300-250-520-mm/32476049340.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.96.URRFhy&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10065_10 068_10000009_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10110_1 0111_10112_10060_10113_10062_10114_10056_503_10055 _10037_10054_301_10033_10059_10032_10099_501_10078 _10079_10077_10000012_10103_10073_10102_10000015_1 0096_10052_10053_10107_10050_10106_10051,searchweb 201603_3,afswitch_2,single_sort_0_default&btsid=6418c2b4-c9d3-4e2c-beef-d0b4a9d6bdc0

Most likely the most sturdy design. Read the descriptions carefully, some are made of melamine = super cheap.


Aluminium rail:
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB18TuBNXXXXXbIXpXXq6xXFXXX5/229235583/HTB18TuBNXXXXXbIXpXXq6xXFXXX5.jpg?size=133652&height=707&width=1000&hash=2500c59d12bc1f2155a8d1bd9bd8f006

Most common. There are several designs of corners brackets though, and I believe that is where the importance lies. Some brackets are more sturdy than other, thus affecting the true of the frame, and your print quality.


Combination aluminium and synthetic plates:
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB15dYbKVXXXXabXFXXq6xXFXXXR/224169844/HTB15dYbKVXXXXabXFXXq6xXFXXXR.jpg

Might be very sturdy, could only tell by actually stress testing the frames.


Conclusion so far:

I would love to see a design that uses flat sides for rigidity, dual screws for Z axis, as well as screws for X and Y axis instead of belts. Belts stretch and wear, They do not last long.

I know screws and motors add weight, but that's why you would use a quality motor on the Z axis and not the cheapest NEMA 17 available.

Single unit extruder head, meaning it incorporates the motor that feeds in the material. Most designs rely on the motor being installed on the side frame and a tube feeding the material into the head. More parts = more breaks, wear, looseness, harder to clear jams.

Last issue, I would not use an all-in-one triple nozzle. I would not trust the separation between colours to be precise.
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1oy6.NXXXXXbQapXXq6xXFXXXy/221916834/HTB1oy6.NXXXXXbQapXXq6xXFXXXy.jpg?size=61121&height=618&width=800&hash=b81e7104cbe10c841eaee54ad15dd631
Also, there is a tie-wrap holding the unit in place (near the bottom). They are careful not to show the tie-wrap on the other pictures, another reason why I would not trust the manufacturer of the triple-axis design.

[Demon]

Take the time to read comments when you find an interesting printer. You would not believe the stuff you find.

I remember one comment about a printer designed using these orange brackets:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Full-Metal-Reprap-Prusa-i3-3d-Printer-DIY-kit-Stainless-Steel-Easy-Installation-2-Roll-Filament/32587332742.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.264.XCaiua&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10065_10 068_10000009_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10110_1 0111_10112_10060_10113_10062_10114_10056_503_10055 _10037_10054_301_10033_10059_10032_10099_501_10078 _10079_10077_10000012_10103_10073_10102_10000015_1 0096_10052_10053_10107_10050_10106_10051,searchweb 201603_3,afswitch_2,single_sort_0_default&btsid=25a7fa7d-80ab-4e8e-b121-a6d3fe165ff0

The users complained that parts were missing, holes were oval and that the seller did not want to reimburse or replace the missing parts.

The excuse used by the seller: no video of the unboxing, not our problem.

I couldn't believe it. You actually have to film yourself when you unbox 3D printers, show each part as you remove them from the box, inspect them super-carefully in view of the camera. I just about fell on my butt when I read that. When you're missing some parts and at least one hole is NOT ROUND, I have never seen a seller pick at such stupid details.

Just thought I would give you folk a heads up on the need to film yourself when you unpack the box.

I have bought and built multiple computers from online stores and have NEVER had such a problem. This is my latest build, liquid-cooled i7-6700K.

http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af37/DemonDNF/PC%20stuff/20161013_204634_zpsvin6j5q7.jpg (http://s991.photobucket.com/user/DemonDNF/media/PC%20stuff/20161013_204634_zpsvin6j5q7.jpg.html)

It wasn't complete, I just couldn't believe how quiet it runs. It's like having a babbling brook nearby, just love it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVRTRsNaFBY

[Demon]

I have switched to 123D Design for several days now, waaaay easier once you get used to it.

Testing transparent surfaces:

http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af37/DemonDNF/3D%20Printing/Korry%20v3_zpsrpxf3oo4.png (http://s991.photobucket.com/user/DemonDNF/media/3D%20Printing/Korry%20v3_zpsrpxf3oo4.png.html)


Testing script quality (the opening for the text is only 12mm x 12mm):

http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af37/DemonDNF/3D%20Printing/Mylar%20test_zpspynrez7h.png (http://s991.photobucket.com/user/DemonDNF/media/3D%20Printing/Mylar%20test_zpspynrez7h.png.html)


And it's free. :)

[Demon]

Hmm, forum wouldn't let me post a third pic, said I was already at four?



Testing the emitting angle of an LED within a casing, just to see how low I could make the casing:

http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af37/DemonDNF/3D%20Printing/LED%20viewing%20angle_zpsgfmnzthi.png (http://s991.photobucket.com/user/DemonDNF/media/3D%20Printing/LED%20viewing%20angle_zpsgfmnzthi.png.html)

[Demon]

As I was saying, 3D printers are evolving really quickly especially since these releases:


The $149 MP Delta Mini 3D printer, Monoprice’s low-cost, entry-level printer, features Wi-Fi for easy, out-of-the-box printing. Also in the home user category, Monoprice updated its Select Mini printer to version 2.0, adding community-inspired upgrades to the unit.


On the commercial side, Monoprice debuted the MP 3 Series Commercial 3D printer for $799. Ideal for industrial and rapid commercial prototyping, the printer has a full enclosure for printing, a 400 x 400mm build volume, and the latest in FDM technology. The company also entered the SLA resin market with the new MP Maker Prism Professional SLA Resin printer. This $3,500 printer offers professional quality printing at an impressive 0.03-micron layer resolution, making it perfect for prototyping, jewelry, and other projects that require a high level of printing accuracy.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/mono-price-3d-printing-ces-2017/

I figure a lot of the bargain brands are scrambling to get even lower, or offer more features.


Wow, retail on the HE3D top model was $665 just recently:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HE3D-2016-Newest-prusa-EI3-triple-nozzle-large-print-size-3D-printer-kit-with-2rolls-filament/32753247106.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.10.74amdc&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10065_10 068_10000009_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10060_1 0062_10056_10055_10054_301_10033_10059_10099_10078 _10079_426_10103_10073_10102_10096_10052_10053_100 50_10107_10051_10106,searchweb201603_3,afswitch_5, single_sort_0_price_asc&btsid=ce31b171-d9e3-4723-8fa9-0cb24c35ea54


it's now $499:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-Newest-prusa-EI3-triple-nozzle-large-print-size-3D-printer-kit-with-2rolls-filament-8GB/32708081774.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.77.BkV2d7&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10065_10 068_10000009_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10060_1 0062_10056_503_10055_10037_10054_301_10033_10059_1 0032_10099_501_10078_10079_10077_426_10103_10073_1 0102_10096_10052_10053_10107_10050_10106_10051-10050_10037,searchweb201603_3,afswitch_2,single_so rt_0_default&btsid=06cf2292-b67e-4176-a64d-9d209edc2684

Same special price though, $472 to $474, depending which ad you pick. :lol:

HE3D is still the only budget triple nozzle 3D printer I see. With the release of that $150 budget machine, I expect the others to redesign the head supports on the single and dual machines real fast.

[Demon]

I like the design of this model, I'm hoping they up their game and increase the platform size and offer triple nozzles.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-Best-Quality-Anet-A6-Precision-Reprap-Prusa-i3-DIY-3d-printer-Print-Size220-220-250mm/32664609968.html?spm=2114.10010108.1000023.8.5Ftk6 W

It has dual motors for the Z axis and seems more robust overall. The demo pieces look precise and above-quality compared to other printers.

Anet%20Precision%20Reprap%20Prusa%20i3%2 (http://s991.photobucket.com/user/DemonDNF/media/3D%20Printing/Anet%20Precision%20Reprap%20Prusa%20i3%203D%20Prin ter_zpsnnqxvcvu.jpg.html)

[Demon]

HEADS UP on HE3D PRINTERS!

Specs can claim anything.

Positioning accuracy: Z axis 0.004 mm, X/Y axis 0.012 mm

The demos are not encouraging at all.

http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af37/DemonDNF/3D%20Printing/HE3D%20demos%203_zpszy1wri60.jpg (http://s991.photobucket.com/user/DemonDNF/media/3D%20Printing/HE3D%20demos%203_zpszy1wri60.jpg.html)

http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af37/DemonDNF/3D%20Printing/HE3D%20demos%202_zps6uhatogs.jpg (http://s991.photobucket.com/user/DemonDNF/media/3D%20Printing/HE3D%20demos%202_zps6uhatogs.jpg.html)

http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af37/DemonDNF/3D%20Printing/HE3D%20demos%201_zpsxgnperr1.jpg (http://s991.photobucket.com/user/DemonDNF/media/3D%20Printing/HE3D%20demos%201_zpsxgnperr1.jpg.html)

All I can say is BEURK!


This printer is still available today ($499 retail / $474.05 special, Store: Hoyi sunway Co.,Ltd):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/he3d-auto-level-large-build-area-E3D-nozzle-triple-extruder-tricolor-3d-printer-diy-kit-support/32711871003.html?spm=2114.13010308.0.0.zYPpnR


They now have 2016 and 2017 versions showing better quality demos ($539 retail / $485.10 special, Store:reprap):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-the-Newest-prus-EI3-3D-Printer-with-2rolls-filament/32681876157.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.106.ExYjae


BUT!!!

If you dig deep enough ($665 retail / $465.50 special, Store:reprap):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HE3D-2016-Newest-prusa-EI3-triple-nozzle-large-print-size-3D-printer-kit-with-2rolls-filament/32753247106.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.176.D4iCb8

The link address says HE3D-2016-Newest-prusa-EI3-triple-nozzle-large-print-size-3D-printer-kit

The ad title says HE3D 2017 Newest prusa EI3 triple nozzle large print size 3D printer kit

But the ad still has the same old crappy demos! So what text are we supposed to trust here? Old? 2016? 2017? Or the quality of the demos for that matter?

So, buyer beware.

[Demon]

More rambling about technologies:

SLA has been around for a while but is slowly becoming affordable. We're still talking a few grand for a machine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereolithography


Meanwhile, 3D printers using fused material have taken a huge leap forward with machines in the hundreds of dollars.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_printing


And now here comes metal:
https://3dprintingindustry.com/news/ces-2017-markforged-metal-x-brings-3d-metal-printing-desktop-102393/

This is going to be a game changer. Not today for us normal folk, but I remember a few decades ago 3D printing was an art reserved for a select few.


Cheap 3D scanners are also available for $130:
https://www.3dprintersonlinestore.com/3d-scanners/he_3d/he3d-ciclop-diy-3d-scanner

[Demon]

This is an interesting design. Too bad only a single nozzle and only 220mm x 220mm.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-Free-shiping-Flyingbear-DIY-3d-Printer-kit-Full-metal-Large-printing-size-High-Quality-Precision/32677798453.html?spm=2114.10010108.1000014.6.rrkWu L

https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB10pysOXXXXXaaapXXq6xXFXXXM/225855700/HTB10pysOXXXXXaaapXXq6xXFXXXM.jpg


Adding acrylic panels to 3 sides and bottom would turn this into a tank.

The only weakness I can think of is the platform. It's built like a diving board, bound to flex and ruin prints if you force it accidentally.

Layer thickness: 0.05mm
XY-axis positiong accuracy: 0.012mm
Z-axis positioning accuracy: 0.004mm


The surface of the whistle looks pretty good (assuming it is small and not a HUGE whistle):

https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1ekNLKpXXXXbnXFXXq6xXFXXXQ/225855700/HTB1ekNLKpXXXXbnXFXXq6xXFXXXQ.jpg

[Demon]

Some printers may seem very interesting at first glance.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Geeetech-Dual-Extruder-Double-Heads-Reprap-Prusa-I3-3D-Printer-Two-Color-Printing-High-Resolution-Impressora/32660533994.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.27.1Nt8l6

And then you compare the specs with other printers:

Layer resolution: 0.1-0.3mm
Positioning Precision: 0.1-0.3mm

That makes me doubt the demos when I compare them to other printers. The orange elephant seems very good for such a weak spec.

https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1bzKzJFXXXXbeaXXXq6xXFXXXv/201120298/HTB1bzKzJFXXXXbeaXXXq6xXFXXXv.jpg



The more I research, the more confused I become. :D

[Demon]

And then there's printers like these which seem just too awesome to be true:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Auto-Leveling-TEVO-Tarantula-I3-Aluminium-Extrusion-3D-Printer-kit-printer-3d-2-Rolls-Filament-8GB/32598143973.html?spm=2114.10010108.1000014.4.KfkFO 8

Click on FEEDBACK.

Then click on the number to the right of the stars, starting with 1.

[Demon]

I just have to show this thing:

3D printer +CNC engraving lathe milling +laser engraving function kit
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Pure-M3-ultra-high-precision-3D-printer-CNC-engraving-machine-CNC-lathe-milling-machine-carving-ultimaker/32762114337.html


Not sure about doing any CNC work on an open-frame type machine. CNC throws dirt and debris everywhere. Those belts, motors, circuits, power supply, eeesh.

And then the guys doing laser work with their face right up to the printer without using any glasses?

That CNC precision doesn't look too fancy. Not sure I'd want to do my boards on that. And then there's the toxic dust from the PCB board.

We have a government agency in Quebec, loosely translated as Workplace Health and Safety Agency, they'd have a heart-attack just looking at this ad.

[Demon]

Holy poopen stuff!

5 nozzles, only CAD $3,718.00.

http://www.robotshop.com//media//catalog//product//cache//7//image//265x//9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95//r//o//rova3d-5-extruder-3d-printer-1.jpg

Print area size: 284 W x 301 L x 191 H mm (11.18” W x 11.88” L 7.55” H)
Build volume: Up to print area size, depending on multi- nozzle configuration
Layer height: Min 25 microns (0.0009”), Max 1000 microns(0.039”)
Print resolution: X: 5 microns (0.0002”)
Y: 5 microns (0.0002”)
Z: 0.25 microns (0.00001”)
Filament Diameter: 1.75mm (0.069”)
Nozzle Diameter: Available 0.35, 0.5, 0.7, 1.0 mm (0.014”, 0.020”, 0.028”, 0.039”)
Print Materials: PLA, ABS, Soft PLA, HIPS, PVA, PET, PETT, Taulman, Laywoo, Laybrick, ESD, Conductive, POM, Carbon Fiber, Wood, Brick, Nylon, Polycarbonate, carbon nanotube, and future high temperature materials that are in development

Wow, all the printers on AliExpress now look like ice-cream machines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdxzuBweoo8

http://www.robotshop.com/ca/en/rova3d-5-extruder-3d-printer.html

[Demon]

This looks promising as an upgrade:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpcH74DXyy0


Prusa is supposedly open-source (if I remember right), so in theory this should fit onto one of the made-in-china models. The Prusa original printers are triple the price.

[Demon]

If you can afford it, the original Prusa is the way to go ($699 in kit / $899 assembled). And then buy the dual ($199) or quad ($249) update above if you need more colours .

Prusa i3 MK2's X, Y and Z auto Calibration

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYrLT5G-a9I

[Ioannis]

Wow, alot of work you have done!

Indeed the evolution of the 3D printers is great!

Thanks for the info you posted.
Ioannis

[Demon]

Awesome machines! I would like to buy a one. Can anyone recommend me sth?

Did you bother to read post #20?

[astanapane]

All these are really impressive. Very good work. Congrats!!!