Sorry hope this is ok, not a code question but you smart guys can tell me...

[wdmagic]

Im looking at getting some other PICs, I've got alot of 18f4550's and 12f629's, but I wanted to know if this is a good deal on a sample pack of chips.
If he still has them in 2 weeks I can order 1 of his 4 sets, but I want to know if its a good deal first. I'm in the USA so he will ship to me. if these are gone, he said he does have other sets too so I might get lucky.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PIC-Microchip-Lot-18f4455-18f4580-16f877a-16f777-18f4320-16LF84a-12f675-12f683-/111016814769?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d91e28b1

[spcw1234]

If they are PICs you think you will use it seems like an ok deal to me.

[wdmagic]

well Im not sure if i will be buying more of them, just thought they would be usefull to play around with since they may have other option on them that I dont have on the 4550 chips, although im not sure what that would be, but if its a real good deal then it would be worth it to get them just to experiment with.

[HenrikOlsson]

Hi,
It's really only you who knows what you want to do and you can compare the features of each device to see if they have anything that you may want to play with.

The 16LF84 is a VERY old device, can't see why you or anyone else would want to use that for anything new today.
The 16f877a is rather old as well but does the job, don't think I'd pick it for a new design though.
The 16F777 seems to be pretty identical to the 16F877 but with the added internal oscillator block and power saving features.
The 18F4320 doesn't seem to have any features that "pops out" so to speak. It seems to be the 18F series equivalent of the 16F877.
The 18F4455 is exactly the same as your 4550 but with LESS program memory (24k instead of 32k).

The 12F675 and 12F683 are both cool little devices that can come in handy.
The 18F4580 has a built in ECAN module so if you see yourself playing with CAN networks then that might be good.

Overall, all of the above devices are rather old. There's nothing wrong with that but there are newer and cheaper alternatives.
The 18F46K22 for example, lets compare that to the 18F4320 above. It has the same amount of I/O (well, one less actually), 8 times the amount of program memory, 7 times the amount of RAM 4 times the amount of EEPROM, 60% higher clock frequency, internal oscillator, broader operating voltage, more analog channels for the ADC, the list goes on - yet it cost less than half of the 18F4320.

I've been kind of stockpiling chips over the years. When ever I'm doing a new project there are a new better, cheaper, cooler device available that I want to use instead of the old, kind of boring pile of chips. The only one I haven't been able to "updgrade" is the 18F2441 but I hope they come out with an alternative for that one too.

/Henrik.

[l_gaminde]

while we are on this off subject, I need an 18 pin pic chip to replace a 16f648a dip, with more than 4k memory.
Any ideas

[HenrikOlsson]

Microchip has some great selection tools where you just tick some boxes and it lists all the devices matching your selections. Pincount, I/O, RAM, FLASH, package, communications, timers etc etc etc.

I gave it a go feeding it 18-pins and at least 4k memory - it popped up with the 18F1330 which has 8k of flash. It's not 100% pin compatible with the 16F648 but Vdd, Vss, MCLR, PGD, PGC, TX, RX (and several others) are all in the same place. Obviosuly I don't know your application or circuit but I'd be surprised if it couldn't be made to work. Take a look at it.

/Henrik.

[wdmagic]

hey thanks henrik, the only problem i have and i may look stupid but...
on my programmer, I have to pick which chip im going to program, and it doesnt show any of those with letters between the numbers

for example, this is similar but not identical to my list

__________________________________________________
Programming software provides easy to use instructions.
PIC MCU models support:
10 Series: PIC10F200 * PIC10F202 * PIC10F204 * PIC10F206 *
PIC10F220 * PIC10F222 *
12C Series:
PIC12C508 PIC12C508A PIC12C509 PIC12C509A
PIC12C671 PIC12C672 PIC12CE518 PIC12CE519
PIC12CE673 PIC12CE674
12F Series:
PIC12F508 PIC12F509 PIC12F629 PIC12F635
PIC12F675 PIC12F683
16C Series:
PIC16C505 PIC16C554 PIC16C558 PIC16C61
PIC16C62 PIC16C62A PIC16C62B PIC16C63
PIC16C63A PIC 16C64 PIC16C64A PIC16C65
PIC16C65A PIC16C65B PIC16C66 PIC16C66A
PIC16C67 PIC16C620 PIC16C620A PIC16C621
PIC16C621A PIC16C622 PIC16C622A PIC16C71
PIC16C71A PIC16C72 PIC16C72A PIC16C73
PIC16C73A PIC16C73B PIC16C74 PIC16C74A
PIC16C74B PIC16C76 PIC16C77 PIC16C710
PIC16C711 PIC16C712 PIC16C716 PIC16C745
PIC16C765 PIC16C773 PIC16C774 PIC16C83
PIC16C84
16F Series: PIC16F505 PIC16F506 PIC16F54 PIC16F57 *
PIC16F59 * PIC16F627 PIC16LF627A PIC16F627A
PIC16F628 PIC16LF628A PIC16F628A PIC16F630
PIC16F631 PIC16F631-1 PIC16F636 PIC16F636-1
PIC16F639 * PIC16F639-1 * PIC16F648A PIC16F676
PIC16F677 PIC16F677-1 PIC16F684 PIC16F685 *
PIC16F685-1 * PIC16F687 * PIC16F687 *- 1 PIC16F688
PIC16F689 * PIC16F689-1 * PIC16F690 *
PIC16F716 PIC16F72 PIC16F73 PIC16F74
PIC16F76 PIC16F77 PIC16F737 PIC16F747
PIC16F767 PIC16F777 PIC16F83 PIC16F84
PIC16F84A PIC16F87 PIC16F88 PIC16F818
PIC16F819 PIC16F870 PIC16F871 PIC16F872
PIC16F873 PIC16F873A PIC16LF873A PIC16F874
PIC16F874A PIC16F876 PIC16F876A PIC16F877
PIC16F877A
18 Series: PIC18F242 PIC18F248 PIC18F252 PIC18F258 PIC18F442 PIC18F448
PIC18F452 PIC18F458 PIC18F1220 PIC18F1320 PIC18F2220 PIC18F2320
PIC18F2321 PIC18F4210 PIC18F2331 PIC18F2450 PIC18F2455 PIC18F2480
PIC18F2510 PIC18F2515 PIC18F2520 PIC18F2525 PIC18F2550 PIC18F2580
PIC18F2585 PIC18F2610 PIC18F2620 PIC18F2680 PIC18F4220 PIC18F4320
PIC18F6525 PIC18F6621 PIC18F8525 PIC18F8621 PIC18F2331 PIC18F2431
PIC18F4331 PIC18F4431 PIC18F2455 PIC18F2550 PIC18F4455 PIC18F4550
PIC18F4580 PIC18F2580 PIC18F2420 PIC18F2520 PIC18F2620 PIC18F6520
PIC18F6620 PIC18F6720 PIC18F6585 PIC18F6680 PIC18F8585


but as you see there are no numbers like 18F46K22
im not sure how to get these programmed, if its something like just use the 18F4622 settings im going to be sick
but otherwise i would need to get a new programmer and I cant afford much of anything right now.

but if i'm mistaken then please tell me, I would love to use the newer chips.

[HenrikOlsson]

Hi,
As far I know there is no 18F4622 device, so if your programmer really did support that one I'd be surprised ;-) Which programmer is it you have?

If it was me I'd first look to see if there's a software update available for the programmer giving it support for more devices. If there's not I'd take the $25 the "EBAY-PICs" costs and put that towards a PICKit3 (which is $45 from Digikey and support ALL Microchip controllers). I don't know how big of a gamble it is but there are PICkit3 clones available on EBAY for around $25 with free shipping. The PICKit3 works with MPLAB or with a standalone program or via a commandline interface so it can be used from within Microcode studio - one click compile and program.

If you're stuck with the programmer you have and are on a tight budget then don't go out and buy a pile of old chips you may never use, even if they are cheap. Figure out what you really need or want in a PIC, find one that provides it and make sure your programmer supports it.

/Henrik.

[wdmagic]

my programmer is a Kit149 modified, its old i got it back in 2006, it does not work with any other software than what came with it. I saw the pickit3's but i thought they were 99$. I have tried to upgrade my software but it didnt work.
I literally have 0 income right now so I do odd jobs and such. I am building a project for a guy that ill get maybe $5 for but will give me some experiance working with some features of pic's. I could do so much more if I could interface the PC to my 4550 chips, but USB is boggling me right now. I will start a thread up for that later.

What i have installed right now is
Microcode Studio 4.0
PBP 2.6
MikroBasic 2.0.0.4 <-I never used this even though it installed
MPLAB IDE 8.6 <- Cant use it gives dll error even after reinstalling???
KIT149 Programming software <-custom software for this programmer

What i want is PBP3 and a new programmer(s) including the PicKit3 but that has to wait.

HEHE that last comment about a 18F4622 was just an example of the naming convention.

[HenrikOlsson]

Yeah, in that situation I'd hold on tight to the few pennies coming in, I hope the situation gets better soon!
If USB is proving difficult why not use the good old UART aproach? It's straight forward and just plain works (so does USB of course - once you get to that point, atleast that's what I've been told - never been able to get there myself...).

If you're on an old version of PBP make sure it supports any new PIC you might choose. I can't seem to find the device list for 2.6 on MELABS site but I know it's there somewhere. I think the 46K22 is supported in 2.6 but I'm not entirely sure.

As for the PICkit3, there are "bundles" available where you get a little demoboard together with the actual PICKit3 device programmer/debugger. Those bundles costs more a bit more but the bare programmer/debugger (Microchip part number PG164130) is $49 from Digikey or $45 from Microchip Direct (http://www.microchipdirect.com/productsearch.aspx?keywords=PG164130) - half that for a clone on EBAY.

I'm afraid I can't help with MikroBasic (is that the Mikro Electronika compiler or what is it?) or the software for the programmer.

[wdmagic]

Yes, MikroBasic is the IDE, it can program chips provided you have a board supported by it, its code used though is similar but it does not use PBP as its code core. it uses MikroBasic similar but also different. there are some cool ways it uses its code that just puts PBP to shame, however its not what I started with and PBP was, so now I am a PBP guy :)
also PBP is pretty much a standard if your not using C or ASM. neither of which I know.

Just a FYI, I talked to one guy online that said I should be able to modify my Chip ID file to add new chips but he was unsure how to do it, I opened my chip.id file in the programming software in notepad, it has all the chips listed with alot of data for each one, here is the info for the 18F4550 chip, perhaps i could make a new entry for a new chip?

CHIPname=18F4550
INCLUDE=Y
KITSRUS.COM=40pin
EraseMode=4
FlashChip=Y
PowerSequence=VccVpp1
ProgramDelay=10
ProgramFlag2=1
PanelSizing=05
CoreType=bit16_B
ROMsize=004000
EEPROMsize=00000100
FUSEblank=CF3F 1F3F 8700 00E5 C00F E00F 400F
CPwarn=N
CALword=N
BandGap=N
ICSPonly=N
ChipID=1200
LIST1 FUSE1 "USBPLL" "Divide by 2"=FFFF "No Divide"=FFDF
LIST2 FUSE1 "CPUDIV" "Div/6 wPLL, Div/4"=FFFF "Div/4 wPLL, Div/3"=FFF7 "Div/3 wPLL, Div/2"=FFEF "Div/2 wPLL, NO Div"=FFE7
LIST3 FUSE1 "PPLDIV" "Osc/12 (48Mhz)"=FFFF "Osc/10 (40Mhz)"=FFFE "Osc/6 (24Mhz)"=FFFD "Osc/5 (20Mhz)"=FFFC "Osc/4 (16Mhz)"=FFFB "Osc/3 (12Mhz)"=FFFA "Osc/2 (8Mhz)"=FFF9 "No Divide (4Mhz)"=FFF8
LIST4 FUSE1 "OSCSEN" "Disabled"=FFFF "Enabled"=DFFF
LIST5 FUSE1 "Oscillator" "HS OSC w/PLL, HS used by USB"=FFFF "HS osc, HS used by USB"=FCFF "Intrn osc, HS used by USB"=FBFF "Intrn osc, XT used by USB"=FAFF
LIST6 FUSE2 "VREGEN" "Enabled"=FFFF "Disabled"=FFFD
LIST7 FUSE2 "Brownout Voltage" "2.0V"=FFFF "2.7V"=FFFB "4.2V"=FFF7 "4.5V"=FFF3
LIST8 FUSE2 "Brownout Detect" "Enabled"=FFFF "Disabled"=FFFD
LIST9 FUSE2 "Powerup Timer" "Disabled"=FFFF "Enabled"=FFFE
LIST10 FUSE2 "Watchdog Timer" "Enabled"=FFFF "Disabled"=FEFF
LIST11 FUSE2 "Watchdog Postscale" "1:32768"=FFFF "1:16384"=FDFF "1:8192"=FBFF "1:4096"=F9FF "1:2048"=F7FF "1:1024"=F5FF "1:512"=F3FF "1:256"=F1FF "1:128"=EFFF "1:64"=EDFF "1:32"=EBFF "1:16"=E9FF "1:8"=E7FF "1:4"=E5FF "1:2"=E3FF "1:1"=E1FF
LIST12 FUSE3 "MCLRE" "Enabled"=FFFF "Disabled"=7FFF
LIST13 FUSE3 "LPT1OSC" "LOW Power Mode"=FFFF "High Pwr Mode"=FBFF
LIST14 FUSE3 "PBADEN" "AD 4:0 Reset=Analog"=FFFF "AD 4:0 Reset=Digital"=FDFF
LIST15 FUSE3 "CCP2MX" "MUC RC1"=FFFF "MUC RE7/RB3"=FEFF
LIST16 FUSE3 "ECCMUX" "ENH CCP1 RE6 3"=FFFF "ENH CCP1 RH7 4"=FDFF
LIST17 FUSE4 "XINST" "Enabled"=FFFF "Disabled"=FFBF
LIST18 FUSE4 "Low Voltage Program" "Enabled"=FFFF "Disabled"=FFFB
LIST19 FUSE4 "Stack Overflow Reset" "Enabled"=FFFF "Disabled"=FFFE
LIST20 FUSE5 "BOOT ROM Protect" "0000-01FF Disabled"=FFFF "0000-01FF Enabled"=BFFF
LIST21 FUSE5 "ROM Protect" "0200-1FFF Disabled"=FFFF "0200-1FFF Enabled"=FFFE
LIST22 FUSE5 "ROM Protect" "2000-3FFF Disabled"=FFFF "2000-3FFF Enabled"=FFFD
LIST23 FUSE5 "ROM Protect" "4000-5FFF Disabled"=FFFF "4000-5FFF Enabled"=FFFB
LIST24 FUSE5 "ROM Protect" "6000-7FFF Disabled"=FFFF "6000-7FFF Enabled"=FFF7
LIST25 FUSE5 "EEPROM Protect" "Disabled"=FFFF "Enabled"=7FFF
LIST26 FUSE6 "BOOT Table Write Protect" "0000-01FF Disabled"=FFFF "0000-01FF Enabled"=BFFF
LIST27 FUSE6 "ROM Table Write Protect" "0200-1FFF Disabled"=FFFF "0200-1FFF Enabled"=FFFE
LIST28 FUSE6 "ROM Table Write Protect" "2000-3FFF Disabled"=FFFF "2000-3FFF Enabled"=FFFD
LIST29 FUSE6 "ROM Table Write Protect" "4000-5FFF Disabled"=FFFF "4000-5FFF Enabled"=FFFB
LIST30 FUSE6 "ROM Table Write Protect" "6000-7FFF Disabled"=FFFF "6000-7FFF Enabled"=FFF7
LIST31 FUSE6 "EEPROM Table Write Protect" "Disabled"=FFFF "Enabled"=7FFF
LIST32 FUSE6 "CONFIG Table Write Protect" "Disabled"=FFFF "Enabled"=DFFF
LIST33 FUSE7 "BOOT Table Read Protect" "0000-01FF Disabled"=FFFF "0000-01FF Enabled"=BFFF
LIST34 FUSE7 "ROM Table Read Protect" "2000-3FFF Disabled"=FFFF "2000-3FFF Enabled"=FFFD


I'm not sure what i would have to do to add a chip, it looks complicated. It would probobly be easier to just upgrade;)

As far as usb, I do alot with laptops and none that I use have serial ports, but has plenty of USB. and Since I have tons of 18F4550's might as well use that option. I dont know how to use usarts either so it may be easier to start with USB. i know I could use a exteral usb to serial converter but I prefer not to.

I did send a message to that guy selling the chips on ebay, he revised his price, he said he ment to type that it was supposed to be $20 with $5 s&h for a total of $25, so he fixed it.
Not sure If I will get any of these kits, but I checked my list of supported chips and all of them are on there.

[lester]

I read this thread with interest and a hint of a smile. Its funny to see people selling 'old stock' when i cannot give the stuff away. Look here (http://www.protonbasic.co.uk/forumdisplay.php/365-ReCycle-IT) , on our other forum, you'll see that we give away old devices that we can no longer find a market for.

Many people have 'old stock' and other IT items they no longer have a use for, maybe we should have a recycling section on this forum too, where users can offer items free of charge to other users that can make good use of unwanted devices and IT equipment.??

[wdmagic]

thats actually a very good idea, I took a look at that forum, looks like a good idea, only problem i have is im in USA. shipping cost to us is different. its a great idea though.

[lester]

I'd be happy to set up a similar area on this forum. It does not matter where you are really. users can post what they have, if you're in the same postal area postage is cheap and in the US your postal service maybe a little slow, but from my experience it gets where its go to go and costs next to nothing compared with the fast, unreliable service we have in UK and Europe (speaking from my experience).

So you cannot benefit from Crownhills caste offs, but i'm sure that some of the US PBP resellers could do what we have done and offer excess old inventory for free, rather than bin it or see it gather dust.

Old part number devices are still very useful. for those starting out, it matters not what you use, 16F84 or 877 or 452, for flashing an LED and hello world to basic projects, for learning anything will do.

Make a decision on buying new devices, once you really understand what you want.

Anyway its just an idea. If its something that forum users here think might work, its easy enough for me to set up.

And it does not have to be limited to components, PCs laptops photo copiers fax machines etc are all useful to someone. This Xmas break i filled an 8CuMtr skip with electronic waste. most of it functional and working. Such a shame and an environmental crime. But what can one do, we need to move on and there is often no where to give such items away - especially with EU legislation being as tight as it is - So it gets scrapped.

[wdmagic]

Thanks, that would be great, i like the idea of other items too, i have alot of stuff here that someone may get some use out of, I have a handheld device here with ~30 keys and a display and it has a barcode wand attached. not sure what it was for but looks like it could be used for a cool project. Ive also got a case of AVR stuff that I have no idea how to program or what to do with it.

could you also put in a request area for stuff people are looking for wether its a part, some equipment, etc...?
Also what about something where we can post links to really good deals,
like I found backlit NKK $20 switches for $.75/ea so I bought 60. 8 days later they raised it to 1.25/ea. then they ran out 2 weeks later.

[lester]

could you also put in a request area for stuff people are looking for wether its a part, some equipment, etc...?
Also what about something where we can post links to really good deals,
like I found backlit NKK $20 switches for $.75/ea so I bought 60. 8 days later they raised it to 1.25/ea. then they ran out 2 weeks later.

You already have such an area (http://www.picbasic.co.uk/forum/content.php?r=60-Useful-Links), in the often overlooked WIKI in the users area (http://www.picbasic.co.uk/forum/content.php?r=5-Wiki) of the web site.

http://www.picbasic.co.uk/forum/content.php?r=60-Useful-Links

[lester]

Anyone else think this is a good idea??, i'm not going to take time out to set it up , if no one will use it.