pbp 3 and MPLAB X

[Marcick]

Anybody has success in setup MPLAB-X, ICD3 and Picbasic3 ?
Actually I'm able to write a simple program, build but then an error

BUILD SUCCESSFUL (total time: 2s)
Loading C:/Users/Marco/Desktop/Nuova cartella/prova.X/dist/default/production/prova.X.production.cof...
Loading C:/Users/Marco/Desktop/Nuova cartella/prova.X/dist/default/production/prova.X.production....
The program file could not be loaded: java.lang.NullPointerException

ICD3 works fine with MPLAB 8
Marco

[Ioannis]

My theory is keep it simple. So I use what Melabs gives with PBP3, the MCSX. When I was using ICD3 as a programmer, I just loaded the hex file in MPLAB8.xx and programed the chip.

Now I find Pickit2 or 3 much more easy to use, specially with the stand alone program.

Out of curiosity, I wonder what MPLABX can offer more as na IDE. Please elaborate on this if you have the time.

Ioannis

[Marcick]

well, because I have these three products, I just want to know if they must work or if actually there are a lot of compatibility problems.

PBP3 says it works with MPLABX
MPLABX says it works with ICD3

These three parts works togheter or not ?
Marco

[HenrikOlsson]

Marcick,
I'm afraid I can't help much. I tried to get PBP3 integrated in MPLABX but couldn't even manage to get that working. But anyway, have you seen this page (http://microchip.wikidot.com/mplab:_start)? There's a topic about installing the ICD3. Unfortunately the page doesn't exist but perhaps you can find some other pointers as to where the problem might be.

Ioannis,

Out of curiosity, I wonder what MPLABX can offer more as na IDE.
Well, compared to MCSX, here are three things that I personally would like to have (and that MPLABX offers).

* Source level debugging
* Code folding
* Version control

But, as I said, I couldn't even manage to integrate PBP into the thing so until someone more intelligent than me writes a step by step guide I'll stick with MCSX.

/Henrik.

[Ioannis]

Source level debuging would be nice, but is it valid for a higher level lanquage like PBP or is it possible only for ASM or C?

If this works for PBP, I want it and may do the experiments :)

Ioannis

[HenrikOlsson]

Hi,
PBP source level debugging works with MPLAB 8 so it should work with MPLABX as well.

/Henrik.

[Ioannis]

Henrik, I think you are refering to an example of Bruce about this?

I am trying to locate this. Any help appreciated.

Ioannis

[ScaleRobotics]

Marcick, that's a pretty long folder path. It could be complaining about that. I think I had some problems when my folders were that long, so I made them shorter.

I followed the instructions here: http://support.melabs.com/threads/91-Mplab-X
But I did have a heck of a time. I tried it on two separate computers, and it seemed to me that on both of them I needed to install the PBP2.60 plugin first (don't ask me why that helped) first, to get PBP3 to work.

Here are some pictures of the settings I currently have, and a screen shot of code stepping PBP3 in MPLABX.



6352

6353

6354

[Marcick]

Thanks to everybody,
now that I see it must work, I'll stuck my head til it worsk for me too ...
After try and try now I have a different error:

ERROR: Unable to find proper .org_n section in file C:\Pbpx\prova.X\pippo.O
Error processing COFF file C:\Pbpx\prova.X\pippo.O
make[2]: *** [build/default/production/pippo\.cof] Error 1
make[1]: *** [.build-conf] Error 2
make: *** [.build-impl] Error 2
make[2]: Leaving directory `C:/Pbpx/prova.X'
make[1]: Leaving directory `C:/Pbpx/prova.X'



How to install the PBP2.60 plugin also now that I have 3 ?

[Marcick]

Sorry, I correct my previous post:
I can build with success a simple program, but then the error is the same:

BUILD SUCCESSFUL (total time: 2s)
Loading C:/Pbpx/prova.X/dist/default/production/prova.X.production.cof...
Loading C:/Pbpx/prova.X/dist/default/production/prova.X.production....
The program file could not be loaded: java.lang.NullPointerException

[Demon]

Could it be a problem with long file destination again?

Robert

[ScaleRobotics]

All is not exactly rosy over here either.

I do get a file not found error, after I successfully compile. Which I notice is slightly different than you. Are you using the new MPLAB X 1.0 (first non beta)?

I can run through with the simulator, I can create hex files that I tested to make sure they really worked. But in my testing of MPLAB X, I can't seem to program the devices directly from MPLAB X when using PBP3. For C, the programmers all work, ICD3, Pickit3. I notice in MPLAB X PBP3, the .cof file is put in \dist\default\production file of the project, but the hex is left in the base file of the project. This is not how it works in MPLAB X C. The hex file and the cof file would be found in the \dist\default\production file for C. So I am wondering if the error I am getting is the rest of MPLAB not finding the hex where it thought it would be. This leads me to wonder if the plugin is set right? This doesn't look like any settings I can select, as far as I can tell. I will ask Charles Leo on the MeLabs site, and pass the answer here when he responds.

Here is a my compiling message:

CLEAN SUCCESSFUL (total time: 101ms)
make -f nbproject/Makefile-default.mk SUBPROJECTS= .build-conf
make[1]: Entering directory `C:/local/new/altimeter.X'
make -f nbproject/Makefile-default.mk dist/default/production/altimeter.X.production.cof
make[2]: Entering directory `C:/local/new/altimeter.X'
gnumkdir -p build/default/production
"C:\PBP3\PBPX.EXE" -ampasmx -k# -os -p12f683 alt-683.pbp
PICBASIC PRO(TM) Compiler 3.0.4.4, (c) 1998, 2011 microEngineering Labs, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.
gnumkdir -p dist/default/production
cp alt-683.COF dist/default/production/altimeter.X.production.cof
rm -f alt-683.COF
make[2]: Leaving directory `C:/local/new/altimeter.X'
make[1]: Leaving directory `C:/local/new/altimeter.X'

BUILD SUCCESSFUL (total time: 3s)
Loading C:/local/new/altimeter.X/dist/default/production/altimeter.X.production.cof...
The program file could not be loaded: File not found.

[Marcick]

Thank you guys,
Yes, I'm using MPLAB X 1.10, the version actually available for download.
I don't think it's a problem of long paths. I've choosen c:\pbpx for my development and the other subpath are choosen from MPLAB. I can't do anything else to make the path shorter ...
Hope Charles will solve everything ...
Marco

[ScaleRobotics]

Ok, I uninstalled MPLAB X 1.00 (required for "upgrade") and installed MPLAB X v1.10, I was asked during install if I wanted to use the old settings, I selected yes.

Now I get no errors after build, and my .hex file ends up in the correct spot. Seems to me, this is something corrected in MPLAB X v1.10

Now I am able to get the Pickit3 to program my project from MPLAB X v1.10. Yay!

I am now wondering if your errors could be a Java problem, with incorrect version. What do you get when you click on help, and info?

Here is mine:

6357

Results:

CLEAN SUCCESSFUL (total time: 101ms)
make -f nbproject/Makefile-default.mk SUBPROJECTS= .build-conf
make[1]: Entering directory `C:/local/new/altimeter.X'
make -f nbproject/Makefile-default.mk dist/default/production/altimeter.X.production.hex
make[2]: Entering directory `C:/local/new/altimeter.X'
gnumkdir -p build/default/production
"C:\PBP3\PBPX.EXE" -ampasmx -k# -p12f683 alt-683.pbp
PICBASIC PRO(TM) Compiler 3.0.4.4, (c) 1998, 2011 microEngineering Labs, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.
gnumkdir -p dist/default/production
cp alt-683.HEX dist/default/production/altimeter.X.production.hex
cp alt-683.COF dist/default/production/altimeter.X.production.cof
rm -f alt-683.COF
make[2]: Leaving directory `C:/local/new/altimeter.X'
make[1]: Leaving directory `C:/local/new/altimeter.X'

BUILD SUCCESSFUL (total time: 4s)
Loading C:/local/new/altimeter.X/dist/default/production/altimeter.X.production.hex...
Loading C:/local/new/altimeter.X/dist/default/production/altimeter.X.production.cof...
Loading completed

[Marcick]

wow, happy for you ...
My java version results 1.6.0_31 that seems newer than yours.
6359

[Charles_Leo]

After updating all of my software, I have the same problem as Marcick. I've been in touch with Microchip and I'm told that the hex file handling needs to be updated in our plugin. I hope to have a new plugin packaged with MPLABX 1.20.

I'm still a bit confused as to why some installations work and some don't.

[ScaleRobotics]

Very interesting. Thanks Charles for looking in to it, and trying to update the plugin for the next MPLAB X release!

It worked on both Windows 7 professional 32 bit, and Windows 7 professional 64 bit here.

On the 32 bit, my info seems to be the same as Marcick's execpt for I have

Java 1.6.0_26, and he has 1.6.0_31
java hotspot 20.1-b02 , and he has 20.6-b01:

6361

I may try updating my Java and see if it breaks my setup, or try a fresh install on a different computer. Will let you know what I find.

[Marcick]

no news ?
marco

[Acetronics2]

Hi,

using Win SP3 Home / I7 2600K ... and a Pickit2.
of course everything ( java, pbp, etc ... ) up to date ...



make -f nbproject/Makefile-default.mk SUBPROJECTS= .build-conf
make[1]: Entering directory `C:/Program Files/Microchip/MPLAB IDE/Projets/X/Servotest.X'
make -f nbproject/Makefile-default.mk dist/default/production/Servotest.X.production.cof
make[2]: Entering directory `C:/Program Files/Microchip/MPLAB IDE/Projets/X/Servotest.X'
gnumkdir -p build/default/production
"C:\PBP3\PBPX.EXE" -ampasmx -k# -os -p16f887 Servotes.pbp
PICBASIC PRO(TM) Compiler 3.0.5.4, (c) 1998, 2012 microEngineering Labs, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.
gnumkdir -p dist/default/production
cp Servotes.COF dist/default/production/Servotest.X.production.cof
rm -f Servotes.COF
make[2]: Leaving directory `C:/Program Files/Microchip/MPLAB IDE/Projets/X/Servotest.X'
make[1]: Leaving directory `C:/Program Files/Microchip/MPLAB IDE/Projets/X/Servotest.X'
BUILD SUCCESSFUL (total time: 3s)
Loading C:/Program Files/Microchip/MPLAB IDE/Projets/X/Servotest.X/dist/default/production/Servotest.X.production.cof...
Loading C:/Program Files/Microchip/MPLAB IDE/Projets/X/Servotest.X/dist/default/production/Servotest.X.production....
The program file could not be loaded: java.lang.NullPointerException



may I add my graphics card ( an ATI Radeon 6870 ...) doesn't like MPLABX at all and frequently crashes ... :mad:
but everything is fine With MPLAB 8.84 ...

Alain

[Charles_Leo]

I just kicked back a beta version for a minor fix. I hope to release an updated plugin tomorrow.

[CipOne]

Up

same problem:
"The program file could not be loaded: java.lang.NullPointerException"

[Charles_Leo]

I've updated the plugin download.

http://pbp3.com/downloads/com-melabs-pbptoolchain.zip

Let me know what you find.

I tested with a PICkit3. Source-level debugging works and it will show PBP variables in the watch window.

MPLABX still seems a bit spotty for debugging. I'm hoping for some improvement in version 1.20.

[Marcick]

Hi Charles,
I still have to understand how MPLABX works, but I can confirm that with the udated plugin I no longer have that java error after build.
I'll come back here again next week. For the moment, many thanks.
Marco

[CipOne]

I've updated the plugin download.

http://pbp3.com/downloads/com-melabs-pbptoolchain.zip

Let me know what you find.

I tested with a PICkit3. Source-level debugging works and it will show PBP variables in the watch window.

MPLABX still seems a bit spotty for debugging. I'm hoping for some improvement in version 1.20.


Thank you, Charles

No errors with new plugin. :)

Fabio

[.W4GNS]

I've updated the plugin download.

.

Works like a charm for me also. Thanks !

[Acetronics2]

Hi, SupaCharles :angel:

Works fine here :




CLEAN SUCCESSFUL (total time: 62ms)
make -f nbproject/Makefile-default.mk SUBPROJECTS= .build-conf
make[1]: Entering directory `C:/Program Files/Microchip/MPLAB IDE/Projets/X/Servotest.X'
make -f nbproject/Makefile-default.mk dist/default/production/Servotest.X.production.hex
make[2]: Entering directory `C:/Program Files/Microchip/MPLAB IDE/Projets/X/Servotest.X'
gnumkdir -p build/default/production
"C:\PBP3\PBPX.EXE" -ampasmx -k# -os -p16f887 Servotes.pbp
PICBASIC PRO(TM) Compiler 3.0.5.4, (c) 1998, 2012 microEngineering Labs, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.
gnumkdir -p dist/default/production
cp Servotes.HEX dist/default/production/Servotest.X.production.hex
cp Servotes.COF dist/default/production/Servotest.X.production.cof
rm -f Servotes.COF
make[2]: Leaving directory `C:/Program Files/Microchip/MPLAB IDE/Projets/X/Servotest.X'
make[1]: Leaving directory `C:/Program Files/Microchip/MPLAB IDE/Projets/X/Servotest.X'
BUILD SUCCESSFUL (total time: 3s)
Loading C:/Program Files/Microchip/MPLAB IDE/Projets/X/Servotest.X/dist/default/production/Servotest.X.production.hex...
Loading C:/Program Files/Microchip/MPLAB IDE/Projets/X/Servotest.X/dist/default/production/Servotest.X.production.cof...
Loading completed



lots of thanks to you once more ...

Alain

[Acetronics2]

Hi, Charles

just a little error I Can't explain ...




make -f nbproject/Makefile-default.mk SUBPROJECTS= .build-conf
make[1]: Entering directory `C:/Program Files/Microchip/MPLAB IDE/Projets/X/Train_Rentrant.X'
make -f nbproject/Makefile-default.mk dist/default/production/Train_Rentrant.X.production.hex
make[2]: Entering directory `C:/Program Files/Microchip/MPLAB IDE/Projets/X/Train_Rentrant.X'
gnumkdir -p build/default/production
"C:\PBP3\PBPX.EXE" -ampasmx -k# -os -p16f628 Train_R.pbp
Error[113] C:\PBP3\PBPPIC14.LIB 451 : Symbol not previously defined (TMR1)
Error[113] C:\PBP3\PBPPIC14.LIB 465 : Symbol not previously defined (TMR1)
Error[113] C:\PBP3\PBPPIC14.LIB 479 : Symbol not previously defined (TMR1)
.
.
.



Compiles ( and runs in real life ... ) fine with MPLAB 8.84, but doesn't want to compile with MPLABX ...

looks a definition for TMR1 ( as a word ) is missing somewhere ... but where ???

Here is the program



'************************************************* ***************
'* Name : Train_Rentrant
'* Author : Alain
'* Notice : Copyright (c) 2010
'* : All Rights Reserved
'* Date : 9 avr. 2012
'* Version : 1.0
'* Processor :
'* Notes : Gestion de train rentrant électrique
'* :
'************************************************* ***************

'************************************************* *****************************
'Configuration
'************************************************* *****************************
#CONFIG
__CONFIG _BODEN_ON &_CP_OFF & _PWRTE_ON & _WDT_ON & _LVP_OFF & _MCLRE_ON & _XT_OSC
#ENDCONFIG
'************************************************* *****************************
'Config Timer 1
T1CON = 110100 ' 1/8, internal osc,stopped
INTCON = 000000
PIE1 = 000001
PIR1 = 0
TMR1 = 0
'************************************************* *****************************
'Definitions
'************************************************* *****************************
DEFINE PULSIN_MAX 2500
DEFINE BUTTON_PAUSE 255
'************************************************* *****************************
'Definitions
'************************************************* *****************************
Temp var Word
Servoval var Word
mesure var Byte
meanval var Byte
dureeprog var Byte
Pos1 var Byte
Pos2 var Byte
Timecounter var Byte
echantil var Byte
delay var Byte
side var byte
Timeout var Byte
CLEAR
'************************************************* *****************************
' I/Os
'************************************************* *****************************
Sorti var PORTA.0 ' Closed = GND
Rentre var PORTA.1 ' Closed = GND
LedA var PORTA.2
LedB var PORTA.3
prog var PORTB.0 ' jp2 reglage enclenchement
Signal var PORTB.1 ' Entrée Signal
Boost var PORTB.3 ' Sortie PWM
T2 var PORTB.4
T3 var PORTB.5
T8 var PORTB.6
T5 var PORTB.7
'************************************************* *****************************
'Initialisation des ports
'************************************************* *****************************
CMCON = 7 ' All digital
PORTA = 0
PORTB = 000000
TRISA = 000011
TRISB = 000011
Neutre CON 150
Traveltime CON 50
DATA @1,180,170,130,1 ' Protection 1ère utilisation
'************************************************* *****************************
'Lecture des valeurs en EEPROM
'************************************************* *****************************

READ 1, Dureeprog, Pos1, Pos2, Side
IF dureeprog <> 255 THEN start

'************************************************* *****************************
'Mesure de l'impulsion d'enclenchement
'************************************************* *****************************
mesurepro:
dureeprog = 255

LOW LedA
LOW LedB
mesurep:

LedA = 0 ' Led Verte
LedB = 1
FOR echantil = 1 to 50
PULSIN Signal,1,mesure
IF ( mesure < 75) OR ( mesure > 220 ) THEN
GOTO mesurep
ENDIF

IF dureeprog = 255 THEN valable
' Stability check
IF ( mesure < ( dureeprog - 1 )) OR ( mesure > ( dureeprog + 1 )) THEN
GOTO mesurep
ENDIF
' Valid mesure
valable:
dureeprog = mesure

NEXT echantil
LedB = 0
delay = 0
BUTTON prog,0,255,0,delay,1,mesurepro 'Enlever le cavalier
'************************************************* *****************************
' Calcul Pos1, Pos2
'************************************************* *****************************
SELECT CASE Dureeprog
CASE is => ( Neutre + 20 )
Pos1 = ( Dureeprog - 10 )
Temp = 2*Neutre - Pos1
Pos2 = Temp
Side = 1

CASE is < ( neutre - 20 )

Pos1 = ( Dureeprog + 10 )
Temp = 2*Neutre - Pos1
Pos2 = Temp
Side = 0
CASE ELSE
IF Dureeprog => Neutre THEN
Pos1 = Neutre + 10
Pos2 = Neutre - 10
Side = 1
ELSE
Pos1 = Neutre - 10
Pos2 = Neutre + 10
Side = 0
ENDIF
END SELECT
WRITE 2,Pos1, Pos2, Side ' Save Switching Positions
'************************************************* *****************************
'************************************************* *****************************
start:
'************************************************* *****************************
IF Timeout THEN ' Locking for Timeout
GOTO NoSignal
ENDIF
Servoval = 0

FOR Echantil = 1 to 5 ' Check 5 cycles and take mean value

PULSIN Signal,1,mesure

IF ( mesure < 75) OR ( mesure > 220 ) THEN

GOTO NoSignal

ENDIF

IF Meanval = 0 THEN Valable1
' Stability check

IF ( mesure < ( meanval - 2 )) OR ( mesure > ( meanval + 2 )) THEN

GOTO start ' Reset cycle

ENDIF

Valable1:

Servoval = Servoval + mesure

NEXT echantil
Meanval = Servoval/5
'************************************************* *****************************
'
IF Side THEN
SELECT CASE Meanval

CASE is => pos1
'IF T2CON.2 = 0 THEN HPWM 1,127,20000
GOTO UP ' _________________ Gear UP

CASE is < pos2
'IF T2CON.2 = 0 THEN HPWM 1,127,20000
GOTO DOWN '__________________ Gear DOWN

CASE Else
'IF T2CON.2 = 1 THEN HPWM 1,0,20000
GOTO NoMove ' _________________ Gear LOCKED

END SELECT
ELSE
SELECT CASE Meanval

CASE is <= pos1
'IF T2CON.2 = 0 THEN HPWM 1,127,20000
GOTO UP ' _________________ Gear UP

CASE is > pos2
'IF T2CON.2 = 0 THEN HPWM 1,127,20000
GOTO DOWN '__________________ Gear DOWN

CASE Else
'IF T2CON.2 = 1 THEN HPWM 1,0,20000
GOTO NoMove ' _________________ Gear LOCKED

END SELECT
ENDIF
'************************************************* ****************************
UP:
'************************************************* ****************************
IF Rentre = 0 OR Timeout THEN ' Verification fins de course

T1CON.0 = 0 ' Stop the timer
TMR1.0 = 0 ' Reset the timer
LedA = 1 ' Solid GREEN Led
LedB = 0
GOTO NOMOVE
ENDIF

T1CON.0 = 1
LOW T8 ' T8 + T3 OFF
LOW T3
PAUSEUS 100
HIGH T5 ' T5 + T2 ON
HIGH T2
LedA = 0
IF PIR1.0 THEN
LedB = ~ LedB
TMR1 = 0
TimeCounter = Timecounter + 1

IF Rentre THEN
IF timecounter => TravelTime THEN
Timeout = 1
GOSUB NoMove
ENDIF
ELSE
GOSUB NoMove
ENDIF

ENDIF

TMR1.0 = 1
PIR1.0 = 0 ' Clear Flag
GOTO Start

'************************************************* ****************************
DOWN:
'************************************************* ****************************
IF Sorti = 0 OR Timeout THEN ' Verification fins de course

T1CON.0 = 0 ' Stop the timer
TMR1.0 = 0 ' Reset the timer
LedA = 0 ' Solid RED Led
LedB = 1
GOTO NOMOVE
ENDIF
T1CON.0 = 1
LOW T5 ' T5 + T2 OFF
LOW T2
PAUSEUS 100
HIGH T8 ' T8 + T3 ON
HIGH T3
IF PIR1.0 THEN
LedA = ~ LedA
TMR1 = 0
TimeCounter = Timecounter + 1


IF Sorti THEN
IF timecounter => TravelTime THEN
Timeout = 1
GOTO NoMove
ENDIF
ELSE
GOTO NoMove
ENDIF
ENDIF
LedB = 0
T1CON.0 = 1
PIR1.0 = 0 ' Clear Flag
GOTO Start

'************************************************* ****************************
NOMOVE: ' Bridge switched OFF , Led Remains unchanged
'************************************************* ****************************
'Brake a While
LOW T5 ' Hi part of Bridge OFF
LOW T8
Pauseus 100
HIGH T2 ' Low part of Bridge ON
HIGH T3
PAUSE 500

' LOW T5 ' Hi Bridge OFF
' LOW T8
LOW T2 ' Low Bridge OFF
LOW T3
GOTO Start
'************************************************* ****************************
NoSignal:
'************************************************* ****************************
IF PIR1.0 THEN
LedA = ~ LedA
TMR1 = 40536 ' Quick 5Hz RED Flash
PIR1.0 = 0 ' Clear Flag
ENDIF

LedB = 0
T1CON.0 = 1

GOTO Start
'************************************************* ****************************
'************************************************* ****************************
END

Alain

[Darrel Taylor]

The 16F628.inc file for MPASMX doesn't have an EQU for TMR1.
The 16F628.inc file for MPASM in MPLAB 8 does have TMR1.

You can add this to your program for a workaround ...



ASM
ifndef TMR1
TMR1 = TMR1L
endif
ENDASM

[Acetronics2]

Hi, Darrel

Thanks for the tip.

I finally have modified the Mpasmx .inc file ... :miserable:

With PBP3 there is no more need to modify the PBP . inc files .... but the Mpasmx have to be now .... :uncomfortableness:

You right : customers ALWAYS complain !!! :devilish:

Alain

[Tcrook]

Just wondering if there are any updates on this. Been using PBP 2.50 and MPLAB v8.15 for many years.

After 30 hours of trying, I have yet to get to first base trying to get MPLABX v3.45 and PBP (2.50 or 3.08) to play together. Can open the PBP source file and edit but MPLABX says the project file is empty when building. Navigator view shows the file as being there.
Using Windows 10 if it matters.

Going back to an old desktop PC with MPLAB 8.15 and PBP 2.50 to get some work done.

[Demon]

Win10, tried executing as administrator?

[Tcrook]

Yep, tried being Administrator, still no joy. I did go back to IDE v8.92 and things started working. Think I've officially given up on MPLABX. Nothing should be that hard. Or maybe I'm getting too old to learn new shit.

[HenrikOlsson]

You're not alone, that's all I've got to say unfortunately.

MCSP is simple to use but lacks advanced features (source level debugging mainly), isn't aware of some features in added in PBP3 and is prone to crashing on several systems (mine including) which SUCKS.

MPLAB 8 is outdated and lacks support for the latest devices and MPLABX is too bloody hard to set up and apparently Microchip keeps changing things and Melabs can't keep up. It's quite a mess IMHO.

[retepsnikrep]

I agree with Henrik.. I just use what was given.. MCSP: crashes on my systems as well, especially when copying and pasting stuff..