Simulator

[Lionheart]

Hey,

I was wondering if someone know a good simulator for picbasic pro.

Thanks at advance,
Ward

[Normnet]

Some PIC simulators to look into:
Tina (http://www.tina.com/English/tina/start.php)
Oshon (http://www.oshonsoft.com/pic.html)
Proteus (http://www.labcenter.co.uk/index.cfm)
Microchip's MPLAB (http://www.melabs.com/support/mplab.htm)
and of course MicroCode Studio Plus. (http://www.melabs.com/products/mcs.htm)

Norm

[ScaleRobotics]

I have been playing with Virtual Breadboard for about 30 minutes now. It is very cool for the price (free). I have not gotten this far yet, but it looks like it can do many of the things a $$$ simulator can. I am not saying it is as good, just saying that so far, looks like it is worth it's free price many times over.

Here is a video of a few things that can be done with it.
http://www.virtualbreadboard.com/videos/VBB_3_RunHEX/RunHex.html

Site: http://www.virtualbreadboard.net/Home/tabid/38/Default.aspx

[Ioannis]

Their 3D is very impressive. But limited to the chips they support by hardware.

Ioannis

[Acetronics2]

I have been playing with Virtual Breadboard for about 30 minutes now. It is very cool for the price (free).


Hi, Walter

Got a computer self-reset for a right click on a wire I was placing ...

not so good, it seems ... :(

Alain

[ScaleRobotics]

Got a computer self-reset for a right click on a wire I was placing ...


That is not good at all! Sorry to hear that Alain.

Probably not your issue, but you do need to load 3 supporting programs:


Latest version of DirectX -
.Net 2.0 Redistributable.
J# 2.0 Redistributable.

Here is some trouble shooting information: http://www.virtualbreadboard.com/troubleshooting.html

I worked with it for about two hours, with mixed results. Some larger files with multiple include files did not behave as expected. I never received a reset, but I did have some stackunderflow errors. (I didn't know you could underflow). I had success with smaller programs though. I got mister_e's matrix keypad (using 4x4) to work on it, which I thought was kind of cool. Also got a few blinky and serial lcd programs to work. It did not behave correctly on my altimeter program with the oversampling include file. I kept getting 0 for altitude, and used the slider for my pressure sensor.

So, I think mixed results is the best way to put it. Who knows, maybe they can eventually fix some of the bugs. Maybe something to keep an eye on.

[Acetronics2]

I knew VBB for a while and still have the V 1.4 ansd 1.9 Aboard ... never noticed such behaviour ...

I think Previous versions, ISIS VSM or Multisim 11 give " less worse " results ... despite the free download ... :D

BTW ... lost all my loging cookies ... that's the worse of all !!!

Alain

[Darrel Taylor]

BTW ... lost all my loging cookies ... that's the worse of all !!!

I hate "Losing Cookies". Although it's usually from "Lager" instead of loging. http://bestsmileys.com/puking/1.gif

But, I am SOOOOO impressed with Proteus/ISIS, I would never even bother trying any other simulators.
It is worth every penny, and I figure it's already saved several thousand $ in hardware, test equipment and time not wasted.

Everyone should have it.

[Ioannis]

I am impressed too. By the price also!

It seems that they do not support PBP. I know hex files can be imported. But not Basic files, right?

Ioannis

[Acetronics2]

I am impressed too. By the price also!

It seems that they do not support PBP. I know hex files can be imported. But not Basic files, right?

Ioannis

Hi, Ioannis

COFF files also can be imported ... I was told it was better for debugging tools use ...

BUT I never could make the RTC chips work in their simulations ... always read "0" ( despite screen shows good data ) ... but the " live " circuit runs perfectly well ...

ISIS do not like mixing analog and digital circuitry nor ... ;)

Alain

[malc-c]

Nice find, but would be nice if it had loads of more components were available. I too experienced issues even after installing the J# update (I already have up to date .Net etc) in that when adding a link the layout area went black and Vista reverted to basic colours. The program then became non-responsive.

On the subject of breadboarding, anyone know of an application that can take an Eagle schematic and lay it out automatically on stripboard. I've used DIY Layout creator, which is a manual process, but this leads to human error creeping in a when mixing 240V with 5V dc there could be nasty consequences...

[F1CHF]

hello
As I am not super fluent in english, could you check my affirmations ?
1/ Isis ask for HEX file, we can't feed the simulator with PBP files ?
2/ we can see datas from PIC registers (trisa , etc ..) but it is not possible to see the datas from our VARIABLES
lest say TOTO var BYTE and the big application like TOTO = TOTO + 1 !
for hardware simulation, it is super nice (voltmeter, oscillo, LED, relays, etc ..) but in my case (sending in serial mode
21 bits with clock and enable line ... using Three outputs pins from a PIC) is it not so easy to see if everything is OK
and in front of that, I have some Bitwise operation on the datas line , that why I try to see my TOTO variable !

that's all folks

Francois

for the moment I will continue with my breadboard ...using debug, or LCDOUT or serout ... but normally the PIC
is a 8 pins ... so I must devellop on a big one first ... that why I try to get a Software simulator.
best regards,

[Darrel Taylor]

If you have PBP 2.60A, then you can use .pbp files directly in Proteus.
Or you can use Proteus inside of MPLAB with more debugging options.

With previous version of PBP, you can only simulate the .HEX files.

[F1CHF]

OK darrel
you know everything !
and we got answer as soon as the enter key is done !
about this sentence
"Or you can use Proteus inside of MPLAB with more debugging options."
Mplab is too complicated for me ... may be I'm too old now "$3E" years old ! hi ...
best regards,
francois

just one question (off topic) what about Mélanie ?
She is still in the support group ?
I always appreciated her support way of life.

[F1CHF]

hello 23h35
I spent hours with the big BLINK application (bas and pbp under Pic Basic PRO 2.60A)
with ISIS version 7.7 SP2 without succes !
he didn't accept pbp extension
simulation is working (LED blinking), but I can't see any Basic line to put breakpoint and display my variable (compteur)
nb: I got this INFO message at start time ! (speaking about PROTON ???)

here is my big application :
' Example program from manual to blink an LED connected to PORTB.3 about once a second
compteur var byte

cont: High PORTB.3 ' Turn on LED connected to PORTB.3

Pause 500 ' Delay for .5 seconds

Low PORTB.3 ' Turn off LED connected to PORTB.3

Pause 500 ' Delay for .5 seconds
compteur = compteur + 1

Goto cont ' Go back to loop and blink LED forever
End

[Darrel Taylor]

Proteus assumes that anything with a .BAS extension is a PROTON program.
So use .PBP instead for PicBasic Pro programs.

Then you need to tell proteus how to compile a PicBasic Pro program... (Note: this assumes you have PBP 2.60A)

In ISIS, go to the Source > Define Code Generation Tools... menu and click the New button.
Point it to the c:\pbp\PBPMPLAB.BAT file. It will create a PBPMPLAB "tool".
Enter the following fields.

Source Extn: PBP
Obj. Extn: COF
Command Line: %1 -ampasmwin -oq -k#
List File Extn: LST
Then click OK

4957

After drawing your circuit with a PIC chip in it ... Save it to a new folder first.
Then go to Source > Add/Remove Source files...
Under "Code Generation Tool", drop-down the box and select PBPMPLAB
Click the New button and either select the .PBP file, or give it a new name and it will create a new file.
AFTER giving it a Source Code Filename ... enter the PIC's part number in the Flags field -p12F683.
Then press OK.

4958

To edit the source code, go to Source menu and select the file you specified previously at the bottom.
When you try to start the simulation, it will automatically compile the program if you have changed it.
Or you can select "Source > Build All" and it will compile it even if you haven't changed it.

If the compile succeeds, it will begin running the simulation.
If you selected "Build All" it will show the results of the compile process.

On Sunday I will try to make a video of the process.
Going Kart racing tomorrow at Unser's in Denver. :eek:
Need some sleep first. And some Advil after ... OK, several Advil.

[F1CHF]

5h30 AM it is not serious ! hi ..
Many thanks for your nice explanation, is it great !
I was obliged to modify the PBPMPLAB.BAT to point on the MPASMWIN (no problem at all)
I use MPASM version 5.2 (thanks for the explanation about Path installation)
http://melabs.com/support/mpasm.htm

Now the last error message I got is in the screen copy (Isis msg)
(looking for a BLINK.O file ???)

have a nice week end first

all the best
Francois

[mackrackit]

Using PBP 2.60A and MPASM v5.36 "O" files are generated. Maybe an MPASM upgrade will help?

[F1CHF]

Using PBP 2.60A and MPASM v5.36 "O" files are generated. Maybe an MPASM upgrade will help?

You can tell me that I am "outside my shoes"
I spent half an hour , but I am not able to locate where I can download
MPASM V5.36 !
thanks ...
francois

[mackrackit]

MPASM is part of MPLAB.
The latest version can be found here
http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1406&dDocName=en019469&part=SW007002

[F1CHF]

Hello
one week after, same player ...
With your kind help, I am able to "play" under Isis simulation
not completly : I can't see my variable "compteur" , I see that it is possible
to see most of the Internal variables from the Pic itself, but not the declared
variable coming from the .PBP file
but it is great (I use an LCD to see the value !)
I made some update in the wonderfull explanation, may be this will help other
see the attached file
I will try no to use the I2C debugger and the Logic analyser under Isis (not a piece of cake !)
all the best,
francois

[F1CHF]

hello
May be in this page here is the explanation (PBP and Proteus)
http://www.labcenter.com/products/crownhill.cfm
they don't refer to Pic Basic Pro they speak about PROTON products

nb: just a new for your marketing dpt ; the links to Crownhill are dead !

but at least it is working.
Francois

[jellis00]

Proteus assumes that anything with a .BAS extension is a PROTON program.
So use .PBP instead for PicBasic Pro programs.

Then you need to tell proteus how to compile a PicBasic Pro program... (Note: this assumes you have PBP 2.60A)

In ISIS, go to the Source > Define Code Generation Tools... menu and click the New button.
Point it to the c:\pbp\PBPMPLAB.BAT file. It will create a PBPMPLAB "tool".
Enter the following fields.

Source Extn: PBP
Obj. Extn: COF
Command Line: %1 -ampasmwin -oq -k#
List File Extn: LST
Then click OK

4957

After drawing your circuit with a PIC chip in it ... Save it to a new folder first.
Then go to Source > Add/Remove Source files...
Under "Code Generation Tool", drop-down the box and select PBPMPLAB
Click the New button and either select the .PBP file, or give it a new name and it will create a new file.
AFTER giving it a Source Code Filename ... enter the PIC's part number in the Flags field -p12F683.
Then press OK.

4958

To edit the source code, go to Source menu and select the file you specified previously at the bottom.
When you try to start the simulation, it will automatically compile the program if you have changed it.
Or you can select "Source > Build All" and it will compile it even if you haven't changed it.

If the compile succeeds, it will begin running the simulation.
If you selected "Build All" it will show the results of the compile process.


Darrel, I am trying to start using Proteus ISIS with simulator. Followed these instructions of yours and when I do a Build ALL I get the following error:
Processing ..\..\..\PBP26\Ellis_Codes\Temperature\0DisplayLM3 4temp.pbp...
PBPMPLAB ..\..\..\PBP26\Ellis_Codes\Temperature\0DisplayLM3 4temp.pbp -ampasmwin -oq -k# %1 -ampasmwin -oq -k#
\Microchip\MPASM was unexpected at this time.
ERROR: PBPMPLAB.BAT reported error code (255L).
Build FAILED with 1 error(s).

Looked at PBPMPLAB.BAT statements and can't figure out what error 255L is telling me. Can you advise??

[Darrel Taylor]

Normally, you get those kind of paths when you haven't saved the .DSN yet.

Each .dsn should be saved in it's own folder, and the source code should be in the same foler.

[jellis00]

Normally, you get those kind of paths when you haven't saved the .DSN yet.

Each .dsn should be saved in it's own folder, and the source code should be in the same foler.
Double checked that and .dsn file and source code are in the same folder. Still get same errors.
Maybe I should clarify, I am attempting to use Proteus Lite 6.7 to evaluate whether I want to buy VSM Startup Kit or not. I was under impression that I could simulate running my PBP v2.6A code on an 18F2620 model of CPU with Proteus Lite 6.7....not true?? I do notice that BUILD ALL is only option not grayed out...the Debug options are all grayed out, so maybe that means I can't simulate with Proteus Lite 6.7.

[Darrel Taylor]

It's been a few years since I had the Demo version.
So I installed it on another machine.

I do not see any example design files that use an 18F2620.
Which means you would have drawn a new schematic with an 18F2620.

The demo version does not allow you to save new designs, so I think your "Double checked that" may not have included the "save the file first" part.
But it won't let you simulate a new design either.

You can use any of the existing demo designs (without changing the design), and change the .hex file that it executes.
But most of them are 18F452's, and the designs are limited.

[jellis00]

Thanks for that reply, Darrel. I see from your comments now why it wasn't working.
Since I was running Proteus Lite 6.7 and Labcenter doesn't support it anymore, they sold me the Proteus VSM Starter Design Kit (SDK) for their special price of $125. This will at least let me thoroughly evaluate ISIS for all my schematic work and will also at least let me do some simulations for the three MCUs that the SDK supports. I already have it running and have been running and looking at some of the samples to see how the VSM works. Looks like it may be a big help if I later decide to spend the $ and upgrade to the full 18F version of VSM. Since they credit the $125 towards the 18F version it makes is almost affordable.
Which Proteus versions do you use? I tend to use 18F version MCUs so I hope that if I do upgrade that the 18F version is all I would need....your opinion as to whether it would be worth it?
John

[jellis00]

Darrel, I have Proteus VSM SDK working now. However, when I run a simulation in the debug step mode I don't see variables listed in the Variables Window. In checking the VSM help files it says that most COF files from compilers will support the Variables Window. Does the PBP 2.6C compiler create a COF file that will let Proteus VSM show the variables in the program in the Variables Window??
John

[Darrel Taylor]

Yes, unfortunately the variables don't show when simulating directly in ISIS.

But if you run Proteus as a debugger in MPLAB 8 the watch window will show the variables.
MPLAB uses the same .cof file, so it's not currently known why they work in MPLAB and not ISIS.

Since you can have as many serial lcd's or virtual terminals as you want, it easier to just put a few statements in your program to spit out the variables at key points.
I don't really miss the variable window too much.

[AvionicsMaster1]

Boss says we might have some extra money and I'd like to order simulation software and an upgrade to PBP3.0.

Do you still recommend Proteus/ISIS when using PBP 3.0?

Thanks for your time.

[Darrel Taylor]

It's not very often that you won't see Proteus running on my computer.
It works great with PBP3.

I highly recommend getting the ARES (PCB layout) package with it.
I used to hate laying out PCB's, but it's almost enjoyable now. :)

Draw it, simulate it, lay it out, export gerbers, and order your proto's all in the same day.

[aliciaDJones]

Informative thread, every one give best information on discussion.