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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe S. View Post
    Hey Dave,
    That's like my B.E. then, stands for Backyard Engineering . . .
    And I'm an M.D. (Master Debater)

    But I like this one:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bologna_process
    Last edited by skimask; - 11th June 2008 at 17:07.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe S. View Post
    Hey Dave,
    That's like my B.E. then, stands for Backyard Engineering . . .
    Well that is better than a B.S. = B_ _ _ S_ _ _

    P.S.
    No offense to those that do have real degrees. My wife is an Archaeologist (Masters), and my oldest daughter is currently working on her BS in genetics.

    It is a lot of hard work to get those letters!
    Dave
    Always wear safety glasses while programming.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by mackrackit View Post
    It is a lot of hard work to get those letters!
    24 units for your typical degree in Australia. I've only done 6 so far.

    Trent Jackson

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.Jackson View Post
    24 units for your typical degree in Australia. I've only done 6 so far.

    Trent Jackson
    And a heck of a lot of money. I will be digging Post Holes (with a )for some time to come.
    Dave
    Always wear safety glasses while programming.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by mackrackit View Post

    My wife is an Archaeologist (Masters), and my oldest daughter is currently working on her BS in genetics.
    Hi, Mack

    you can quietly leave your body to science ...

    you're sure it will stay home !!!

    ...

    Alain
    ************************************************** ***********************
    Why insist on using 32 Bits when you're not even able to deal with the first 8 ones ??? ehhhhhh ...
    ************************************************** ***********************
    IF there is the word "Problem" in your question ...
    certainly the answer is " RTFM " or " RTFDataSheet " !!!
    *****************************************

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by mackrackit View Post
    And a heck of a lot of money. I will be digging Post Holes (with a )for some time to come.
    Personally I'd prefer to detail cars. VIP car care franchise would be a ripper for not that much cash outlay (I have in the past and am still considering one for the future) I absolutely love working on exotic cars. 300ZX, 3000GT / GTO, MR2, HSV. For the same amount of "hard yacka" with digging those post holes you'd rack tripple the amount of cash.

    Trent Jackson

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acetronics View Post
    Hi, Mack

    you can quietly leave your body to science ...

    you're sure it will stay home !!!

    ...

    Alain
    Yes, my home is like a laboratory as is.
    Wife = Archaeologist
    Daughter = Genetics
    Son 1 = Computer Science
    Son 2 = Entomologists

    I wonder what they have planned for me?
    Dave
    Always wear safety glasses while programming.

  8. #48
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    What's your definition of science Dave?

    Trent Jackson

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.Jackson View Post
    What's your definition of science Dave?
    Science is what you do...when you don't know what you're doing.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.Jackson View Post
    What's your definition of science Dave?

    Trent Jackson
    I guess I would have to use a definition along the lines of:
    The study and exploration of ______.
    The blank being where ever the interest lies. I do not like to use "the physical world" for the blank because then, things like String Theory and Quantum Computers (maybe) would not fall into the realm of science.

    Science is what you do...when you don't know what you're doing.
    That sounds like the way I write code.
    Dave
    Always wear safety glasses while programming.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by mackrackit View Post
    That sounds like the way I write code.
    You write code?
    I wish I could do that...

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by skimask View Post
    You write code?
    I wish I could do that...
    You heard the thing about a hundred monkeys and a hundred typewriters producing novels?
    When it comes to coding I am Monkey 99
    Dave
    Always wear safety glasses while programming.

  13. #53
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    There's 3 things that make a programmer good.

    1. Reasoning
    2. Terminology
    3. Imagination

    Put simply, "reasoning" is logic. Terminology is knowledge. Imagination is passion.

    You're an expert programmer if you've got a strong strength in all 3 ...

    Trent Jackson

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.Jackson View Post
    There's 3 things that make a programmer good.

    1. Reasoning
    2. Terminology
    3. Imagination

    Put simply, "reasoning" is logic. Terminology is knowledge. Imagination is passion.

    You're an expert programmer if you've got a strong strength in all 3 ...

    Trent Jackson


    Come on TJ,

    Those are what you think.
    You should have started with "I think there are three things ....".

    The word "good" is not a good choice to express whether a programmer is good or not.

    And who determines the level of being "good" for a program or code or programmer?

    In mechanical engineering, or chemical engineering or electrical engineering etc. there are rules and formulas that you are entitled to.
    Those are the law of the nature, no one can change them.
    The engineers in those fields must use those formulas to calculate & built something.
    AND if one day the building collapses, then you can use the expression of "good" or "bad" for the engineering.

    However, when it comes to programming, there are no rules, just "shoulds" and "should nots"; you design and then create your laws, rules and the nature.

    There is always a better code writer TJ, you know it very well.

    If your code works, and it does what you need, whether in two lines or 10 lines then it is good enough for the application. And if you are happy with it, then it is good enough programming.


    Therefore, there is no good programmer TJ, but good enough programming.

    Your three things are something you think.

    ----------------------
    Last edited by sayzer; - 13th June 2008 at 09:18. Reason: typo
    "If the Earth were a single state, Istanbul would be its capital." Napoleon Bonaparte

  15. #55
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    Well ...

    They're my original thoughts anyhow. I've read 3 books and I'm a quarter of my way through a bachelorís degree in Information Technology. Plus I have 5 years experience as a programmer.

    Trent Jackson

  16. #56
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    Trent does make a good point

    Need to be able to think logically to solve problems.

    Need to have knowledge in the system you are working with and of what ever the program is to accomplish.

    Need to have an imagination to put it all together.

    And like sayzer said.
    If your code works, and it does what you need, whether in two lines or 10 lines then it is good enough for the application. And if you are happy with it, then it is good enough programming.
    IMHO
    Dave
    Always wear safety glasses while programming.

  17. #57
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    On another forum, one user have the following signature..
    'Good enough is perfect'


    and then ...
    http://paulbuchheit.blogspot.com/200...nough-and.html
    Last edited by mister_e; - 13th June 2008 at 13:57.
    Steve

    It's not a bug, it's a random feature.
    There's no problem, only learning opportunities.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.Jackson View Post
    They're my original thoughts anyhow. I've read 3 books and I'm a quarter of my way through a bachelorís degree in Information Technology. Plus I have 5 years experience as a programmer.
    Trent Jackson
    Could ya speak up a bit! I can't hear you very well from all the way up there!

  19. #59

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    I may be incorrect but I believe this thread has totally lost its original topic of discussion.

    People helping people is what this forum is all about is it not? If I have written/modified some code that can be of use to someone they are by means free to use it. I would like nothing better than to know that I helped someone out and that they appreciated it. It's all part of learning I think. I personally prefer the hands approach to learning things. I am quite certain there are numerous others much like myself here also. Reading a smart-ass reply does nothing but consume peoples times and discourage them from posting and sharing future postings. This however is just my 2 cents worth.

  20. #60
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    Hi All,
    Small comments to social request:
    Be helpful otherwise go get a life, have a Beer, etc etc
    IF you shift discussion to few newest PICs and print sample codes for old PICs
    on this site regularly it will really help.
    Working with wide range of PICs on MEL PICBASIC Forum it is the same that walks in wetlands.
    Best Regards

  21. #61
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    Cool

    Maybe i'm reviving the dead with this post (topic refered), but i like to make a statement in behalf of a lot of people here in the forum, including myself.

    The only teacher we will ever have for programming microcontrollers (or computer software in my case) is form "learning the way of thinking" out of code examples found on forums like this or on app notes from microchip in this particular case. No microprocessor or embedded systems degree, or any background in raw computer architecture is loaded on our brains, so there are a LOT of holes to fill in this learning curve and we usually miss something.

    The original spirit of languages like PicBasic is to give the chance to our kind of people to learn and be able to use this kind of resources, and with PicBasic they made a good job in that congratulations.

    The problem begins when you need to learn more than what the compiler gives you.
    Examples of this are starting to use and config the hardware peripherals by hand, specific config fuses that are different for every family of microcontroller, assembler code snippets, interrupt routines, etc..
    There is no manual for "what is important to look for using this peripheral" or for "what is the approach to learn this" they are huge learning steps if you are not familiar with the architecture of the chips or with assembler code itself (both a necessity for proper understanding of the datasheets). So our best chance to learn is to find some code example that is sufficiently well commented to know what's actually happening and that it actually works and extrapolate by trial and error.

    I've already learnt a lot of the background in the last few years but I completely understand some beginners asking for basic "datasheet config" type questions ,or for help in understanding a little bit of assembler, or using the "X" peripheral.

    It's difficult to find that kind of teaching and i'd like to thank every member of the forum that gives their time in answering us with some code snippets or solutions. Your time has helped others to be better programmers, and like in many classrooms there is always some "students" that are just lazy and want just to copy the neighbor but others we just want to learn.

    Cheers, and the beers are on me

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