Shall we see a new version soon?

[Bulman]

Too long from tha last release 2.45
But I'm bored seeing nothing in every new version.
I don't need 2.46, 2.47, 2.50 etc. I need a totally new and improved modern compiler. We all need PBP 3.0.
Shall we see it soon, or we'll be constrained to jump to CCS or Crownhill?
I've just bought The C Programming Language book by Kerninghan.
Melabs, what are you doing?

[Melanie]

The MeLabs Compiler that was bought yesterday, last month, last year, whenever, still does the job that it was bought to do. It handles the latest PICs, produces stable code that works, and that can be relied on day-in, day-out.

If you ever thought that MeLabs PICBasic Pro was lacking features and lagging behind the competition… think again…

The latest product released into manufacture by us is a 4-Pump Pressurisation & Water-Boost Controller for Building Infrastructure & HVAC Installation...

To bore the pants off you, this is a 'brief' run-down on the software specification...

4 Pump Control with pump-fail detection. 6 environmental Sensor Inputs. LCD Module with software controlled Contrast and Backlight levels. Three User Control Buttons (each with auto-repeat and audible feedback of key-press), Tri-State status LED, Piezo Beeper. Pressure Display from analogue Transducer to 16.9 Bar with 1 decimal place (100mB) - with Sensor noise cancellation done in software. 28 independent software Counter/Timers (that's right twenty-eight timers). 95-entry four level deep user-intuitive Set-Up Menu (with three levels of password access). Over 150 user System Messages with 4-language multi-lingual selection. 31-entry multi-event scrollable History/Event Log. Communications interface to TCP/IP module for full network or internet remote control and configuration.

All achieved with a 4MHz PIC16F876 in only 7.4kB (yes, ONLY 7.4kB!) of program code, powered exclusively by MeLabs PICBasic Pro. Yes, there's a whole stack of EEPROM in there, but basically at the heart of it is that 16F876 chugging away with code compiled by this MeLabs compiler that everyone is moaning about.

Floats are out there... but nobody can be bothered to do anything with them because it looks too difficult. Same with Trig and math functions, same with Graphic LCD routines, same with... etc etc.

“what you can achieve is only limited by your imagination” – Melanie Newman

[Bulman]

Well can you implement the TCP/IP stack into the PIC using the PBP compiler? We have no even 32 bit vars.

[Melanie]

No, I would have run out of codespace on the 16F876 and would have had to go to an 18 series which for various reasons I did not wish to do. Instead I interfaced to a Lantronix module.

TCP/IP software for the PICs is available free of charge on request from Microchip. Details on their website. Whatever you can do in Assembler, you can pretty much do in PBP. You can also happily mix both.

As for 32-bit vars, ready canned routines are available to handle variables greater than 16-bits. Look for them - or create your own.

[Bulman]

Tipically the software companies are supporting their clients, not clients the company. I know that I could have 32 bit vars in round-way, but why should I do the Melabs' job.
When I asked Crownhill for 24 bit sighned integers and floats, on the next day, Les said - OK. Where are Melabs, where is the feedback. I don't need 18F8680 and 18F8720 support (actually PBP even does not use the advantages of the 16-bit core PICs). I need a 32 bit signed math and I have no time to search the web for the routines and do tricks. Melabs must do that, because I pay them.

[Tim B]

Absolutely fundamental requirements of a compiler are variable and data handling support. After that you add the rest, Serial and coms handling, display etc etc.

I Stopped using Pbpro because 2 years ago because of the lack of the basic's. Since then I have seen Proton grow and grow with a very large collection of new commands and data structures being added. To add just one new variable type takes a massive amount of effort, every permutation of its interaction with another variable and command has to catered for and checked, but this is style of the support you get from Crownhill and Les, forever striving to improve there product and support there customers.

Who provides and runs this Forum and the Pbpro List? Who goes to all the effort to set up a dedicated site to provide a depository for users programs and tips (Proton Users site)? Who invests time and money and effort to provide Free Bug fixes and additional Pic support? Who puts effort into brining in third pary support?

Crownhill and Les that’s who!!!

You go to any site that supplies a compiler and you will see "Forum" listed. Go to Melabs and you see Buy Buy Buy. All there interested in is your money, product development? No that would cost to much!! Now that does not mean that Melabs are not putting some money back in but I can’t see it, and as per there normal practice you will have to pay for it and it will be through the nose

"create your own" is typical of Melabs attitude to there customers.

Sure you can spout your programming skills Melanie, you are obviously very talented but what you have done can be done with any compiler, its just down to the programmer manipulating simple statements, if then, else, a = b etc (and an eeprom because of the crap data handling). High level compilers are supposed to make life easy for the programmer, and if you are expected to do most of it your self (as with C) it should provide the core ability to do so i.e. Functions etc

BTW timers are piss easy I have a piece of code that has over 40 running, they are a basic core of any program.

[Melanie]

Gentlemen

You know what you bought when you bought it. There was no secret that MeLabs product did not have floats, or GLCD support, or Trig or whatever. You saw the features, you probably downloaded the manual, you made your choice and you bought it. You bought yourself a car, your neighbours got one with a turbo. Do you sit on your driveway crying that you've not got a turbo, and why isn't the manufacturer bringing out an upgrade kit? No, you go out and buy yourself one that has. If you've bought the wrong product for your needs, then you've only got one person to blame.

I've got Crownhill's Proton too. I don't cry when I need a feature that is lacking in one compiler - I either use one that's appropriate for my needs, or build the feature into the one that I've chosen to use. If more people chose that route, they would learn heaps along the way and the skill level of the user base would go up. Instead we have a situation where people want it handed to them on a plate, and when you do that, they haven't got a clue what to do with it anyway.

Quote: "When I asked Crownhill for 24 bit sighned integers and floats, on the next day, Les said - OK" By that statement Sir, it looks like you have Proton too. Why aren't you using it? Instead you becry the fact that MeLabs hasn't got a particular feature. Is it because you would prefer to use the MeLabs compiler? Why is that?

Quote: "(and an eeprom because of the crap data handling)." That's Bullshit and you know it. I'd like you to fit 64kb of system messages into 8kb of program codespace regardless whose compiler you're using.

Quote: "Sure you can spout your programming skills..." I've always been taught that it's the responsibility of those who know, to teach those who don't. Who in turn will become better and more skilled than you and pass on the knowledge. You may have a different attitude to this.

Actually, as an afterthought to writing the above paragraph, I'd also like to add that there are people from the Proton camp who have emailed and messaged me with "Can I use your code?" and "How can I convert this or that to Proton?" which I have also done... so there could well be a general skills shortage.

I only have a limited amount of free time, and have made the decision to stay mainly with just ONE forum. That DOES NOT mean I program exclusively with MeLabs product - I don't. I've always said I program with whatever is suitable for the job in hand. I don't support MeLabs in preference to any other vendor. In fact, I am aware that on my recommendation quite a number of a competitors product has been sold. But I sure as hell don't EVER go around slagging a vendors products on their product forum using it as an excuse as a veiled advert for a competitor - which I consider the height of bad manners.

[Bulman]

I have no the full Proton+ compiler I just wrote several programs with the demo. Now I have to decide what to buy - CCS or Crownhill.

I'm just trying to make MElabs read this forum, take care about their custumers and think about their future.

_______
Regards
Boyko

[Tim B]

Mmmm

Not sure quite what to say....

First of all I have to agree with what you said, and I do appologise for it sounding like a advert, not the place to do so and in it was in bad taste. One of those post before you think situations.

I do hold to my veiws but I should keep them to myself.

I offer my unreserved appologies if I offended anybody.

[Melanie]

One can stand up and argue for and against PBP vs Proton, and produce damn good arguments for each camp. The choice ultimately is individually subjective... but as long as you buy your product from Crownhill, I'm sure Lester won't care either way *smiles* and it'll pay for the upkeep of whichever forum.

[Dwayne]

Hello Melanie,

Melanie>>I've always been taught that it's the responsibility of those who know, to teach those who don't. Who in turn will become better and more skilled than you and pass on the knowledge. <<

Thanks a million Melanie...I don't know what else to say...When I taught at WSU, this has always been my attitude. And to see the smiles and faces of people who grasp the new ideas is worth a mint.

Dwayne

[highcopic]

Wow!!
I am new new to all this PIC stuff and the way I am learning is by all the people out their in the land of PICs! I learn about compilers /code/compiling from all you guys and gals!
Each to his own, what you like and what I like are two different things. What i have learnt so far there are is that there are things i would like to change in all the different compilers and intergrated development enviroments out there. If they all had (what i think is.. ) all their good points in one program, that would be great! The fact that people provide there time and knowledge , picbasiacally for free, is, fantastic. Stop and Think about what other people have done, what they provide, and how they do it. We learn by what others have done. That is how you learn to invent these days, by improving.... and trying do it better yourself. (and I am only a beginner!)
Regards
Terry
Age 44

[Dwayne]

Hello Terry,

t>>The fact that people provide there time and knowledge , picbasiacally for free, is, fantastic. Stop and Think about what other people have done, what they provide, and how they do it. We learn by what others have done. That is how you learn to invent these days, by improving.... and trying do it better yourself. (and I am only a beginner!)<<

Wecome to the forum...Its great to see you out there. What you have said is true... Its impossible to have the "Perfect" Compiler. What fits me, may not fit you. But to have a versital <sp> compiler like PBP is wonderful. Granted it may be expensive, but It is well worth it.

www.compilespot.com is a great place to see what the compiler can do. You are allowed only 900 byes of code, but that is enough to do many projects....if you leave out the comments.

We have many different kinds of talents here...We have professionals, as well as hobbiests. Some of us come from different backgrounds. I started out programming the Philips chips... all in assembly. I remember burning 25 min under a UV light, and hoping the chip was completely erased, because if it wasn't....it would not program. Then you were only allowed about 20 or so programmings per chip... and they were dead....at 15 to 20 dollars a piece...that was tough to swallow. <g>. I still have a Philips programmer that works... but it is getting dusty <g>.

Then I need a chip for a little invention I came up with...And decided to try these PIC chips...I have loved them ever since. Great powerful little chips, wonderful people, great compiler, This Flash Mem is wonderful. Price of the chips is darn cheap! All together the board and people are a wonderful group. To me that takes the cake.

Dwayne