The Future Of Hobby Electronics.


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    Post The Future Of Hobby Electronics.

    During the summer of 1947, Tuesday, December 16th, Walter Brattain & John Bardeen invented the World’s first solid-state transistor. Indisputably, you wouldn’t be reading this text on your computer screen right now without the advent of this discovery. Modern technology relies entirely upon millions of integrated transistors to perform some of today’s even “most simplest” tasks. Highly sophisticated computing soon to be approaching the usage of billions upon billions jam packed into an area about the size of the head on a matchstick. Some consumer electrical goods are now costing more to dispose of than to purchase new. The service technician’s days are undoubtedly numbered if not already over. Nothing that’s economically feasible to repair means little or next to no work for today’s aging serviceman.

    Currently the retail cost of consumer electronics is absolutely “mind-boggling”. And that’s even putting it mildly. Brand new DVD players with full warranty can be purchased for as little as $35 AUS. CRT televisions can be purchased in some cases for under $100. True, these are examples of yesterday’s technology. True also that because of the fast acceleration & growth of new technology, yesterday’s lineup must be priced accordingly for it to be able to compete. But, the real truth behind it is to do with the much more efficient, cost-effective manufacturing techniques that are currently being used. Over the next twenty years, the cost of consumer electronics will continue to fall even further. I absolutely guarantee it!

    Since the introduction of solid state, a hobby in electronics was considered to be a starting / entry point for anyone exploring the possibilities of a career as a technician or in some cases an engineer. True, some of the best engineers have no formal qualifications. Some self-employed engineers may have completed a technician qualification and then pursued other studies on their own accord. However, I feel, this will soon all be a well-known scenario that’s a thing of the past. Technology is becoming increasingly more and more complex while the cost of the finished product to the end-user is taking on a steep decent. Tomorrow’s engineers will need to have the intellect of a doctor and the creativity of an artist to even be considered.

    Turning the clock back say, twenty years, TV servicing, a thriving industry it indeed was. Well paid – (from what I’ve read) – always plenty of work, apprenticeships were the entry level, a hobby in electronics on the side always made for a better-equipped and much more knowledgeable tech. It is said that technicians can render themselves defunct if they don’t continuously keep up with the changes in technology by either doing a refresher course every five years, or reading hobby magazines / books on the side. Speaking of hobby magazines, they’ve all changed too. It’s seldom now that we see articles with insights on servicing & DIY test gear to aid the serviceman. Now all we see is gizmos & gadgets aimed at “gifted” people that love working with their hands.

    Most people, I believe, will not pay $100 for a KIT of parts that does very little when compared to a DVD player that they can go and buy for $35. It should be at least agreeable that this sort of arrangement wouldn’t encourage any new comers to the hobby. Even the most modern and elegant kits which incorporate double sided through hole-plated boards are still emphasizing on technology which is almost near prehistoric. There is very little to learn from building them nowadays. To top it off, in my opinion, they also do very little when compared with today’s boarder line “wow factor” consumer electronics. There are only three things that I believe would motivate someone to go and purchase a kit. 1) I’ll save money by building it myself. 2) I’ll learn something new from it. 3) There’s nothing else like it on the market so I’ll have to build it myself if I really want it.

    With nothing to learn, no money to save, the projects are boring; electronics magazines are soon to be a thing of the past! Over the last few years the cover price of most magazines in this domain has slowly increased to make up for the missing portion of readers that no longer buy it. The only thing keeping them currently alive is yesterday’s generation - You and I. In Australia, there’s no such thing as a formal trade in electronic service anymore. There is as such a course in electronics, which focuses a portion of it on GUI design! There will always be a call for engineers. But with tomorrow’s generation, there will be no service technician. It will continue to become increasingly more economically feasible to just throw faulty appliances in the trash and go and buy a new one.

    All told, as the number of enthusiasts continues to decline, components, tools and so on will become increasingly harder-to-obtain. Eventually, manufactures will no longer find it economically viable to produce them. If you’re still keen on it all then you’ll have to be prepared to work with surface mount. Already, in Australia, many retail outlets are ceasing to stock these goods. Some outlets have transformed themselves into toy shops. No longer relying just on the sale of electronic components, they now sell radio controlled cars and other cheap gizmo's and trinkets. You’ll always be able to buy a soldering iron from somewhere, don’t get me wrong, it’s just that you may not always be able to find a 100 ohm through hole mount resistor.

    In a nutshell, the only thing that’s really foreseeable in the future for electronics as a hobby is remembrance. To really appreciate what I’m saying, you need to try and consider what technology you’ll be surrounded by in the future. Do you really think that you’re going to be able to build anything even remotely as good yourself?

    Trent Jackson - 05/03/07

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    Hi Trent,

    This is true for consumer electronics in most parts of the world.

    * * *

    What about industrial electronics?

    How do you control your Vegemite packaging machines?
    There are so many applications for microcontrollers!

    Best regards,

    Luciano

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    People used to make (and still do!!) Crystal Set Radios despite the fact that tripple-superheterodyne receivers with digital displays probably cost the same amount of money as the Retail price of the sum of parts for the Crystal Set. Why? To learn something. To get a sense of achievement and accomplishment. Just for the fun of it.

    When tag-strips and point-to-point wiring became obsolete in favour of PCB's, hobbyists probably cried that they wouldn't be able to make PCB's and it would kill the hobby. It didn't. People adapt. Moving forward, folks on this forum play with, and interface with, GPS for example. They didn't make the receiver - it was bought-in as a module, but there's still a lot of mileage and fun playing with, and designing products with those.

    I've got a drawer full of ideas that I want to progress when I've a free moment... some of those ideas are for valves... you know those things with heaters and anodes and grids... Why? "It's all been done before" you might say. Sure, but it's not been done MY WAY, and there's nothing nicer than walking down Hight Street Anytown and seeing something you've designed in a shop window. There's that feeling of satisfaction and accomplishment again. Not quite orgasmic - but close.

    I do really think however that one thing has gone down the pan... fifty years ago when you played with 400v HT supplies and you didn't know what you were doing, you didn't last long - kinda survival of the fittest. Those wannabe's ended up falling by the wayside (usually in a smoudering heap). Evolution at work - you had respect for the survivors. Sadly, there is a perfect example of the true state of affairs today, with a request for conversion of code from Assembler to Basic where the poster hasn't a clue of either, yet still wants to produce a working PIC project of some complexity. Gimme strength!

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    I don't think hobby electronics will ever die and fade away.. there will always be people with an interest and a market to cater for that interest nomatter how small. Years ago most large towns had a component shop, where now most parts have to be ordered online / mailorder from places like RS / Farnell / Rapid (in the UK) and Digikey / Mouser etc in the US. Having said that Maplin here in the UK still offer the option to buy most common components at most of there shops throughout the UK.

    Agreed as far as consumer electronics go we are in a throw away world, and that has killed of the service industry in countries where labour rates are fairly high by comparason to what the units can be imported for. having said that I've always been interested in the challange to keep things working and will always source out a part to keep the washing machine / tumble dryer running. And as Mel said you get that nsatisfaction of knowing that I did that

    I'm new to PICs and for me I still find it exciting when you type some words into an application on the screen and then after a few clicks load the code into a small device, plug it in to my breadboard and it works first time (well most of the time )

    I also echo Mel's comments about knowing that something you've made or developed your way is in use somewhere in the world. With the help of then guys here I've just completed a project for a local club. True we could of gone out and purchased a commercial unit for about twice the cost of the component, and it would of saved me hours of head scratching (both mine and those who helped with the code).. but it gives me a nice feeling to know that something I built is working better than any commercial unit and is giving pleasure to others who don't have any interest or understanding of these things.

    Also, there is the learning aspect. A few years I had no idea how a PIC worked (still don't if I'm totaly honest) but I've picked up enough understanding and learnt from the guys here to be able to program a PIC to do most things that I have an interest in - some having no real use commercially or to anyone else, but itsn given me a lot of fun in developing each project and learning along the way.

    Mel also commented on the advancement of technology, from strip board to PCB's. We've also seen the PC enter the home and now its possible for anyone to use a free application to produce some really good PCB's using either toner transfer method or UV photo. We also use the PC to author our PBP programs, and load the HEX to the PIC via suitable software and hardware... I don't see this as being detrimental to hobby electronics... just that where in the past we used to work out the type and array of logic chips etc we needed, now we look at doing the whole thing in a small 8 pin package instead

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    Quote Originally Posted by Melanie View Post
    People used to make (and still do!!) Crystal Set Radios despite the fact that tripple-superheterodyne receivers with digital displays probably cost the same amount of money as the Retail price of the sum of parts for the Crystal Set. Why? To learn something. To get a sense of achievement and accomplishment. Just for the fun of it.
    Having been the author of a dozen practical projects that have been published in the Silicon Chip magazine, I can truly appreciate the term "Just for the fun of it". I have been involved in some way or other with DIY electronics for the past 10 years. My main motivation has always been for "a sense of achievement and accomplishment" Some of my projects have been sold as commercial kits. Two of my most recent use a PIC16f877a.

    There's always going to be some people around, perhaps 1 in a 1,000 that are wanting some involvement in electronics as a hobby. Problem is, when 1 in 1,000 becomes 1 in 100,000 sources for it as a hobby will vanish. Magazines, books, kits (already starting to happen), parts and so on.

    Like anything else in this World, it's a mere case of "supply & demand". It's what makes the World go round. No rocket science here.

    Best Regards,
    Trent Jackson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luciano View Post
    Hi Trent,

    This is true for consumer electronics in most parts of the world.

    * * *

    What about industrial electronics?

    How do you control your Vegemite packaging machines?
    There are so many applications for microcontrollers!

    Best regards,

    Luciano
    Hi Luciano,

    Industrial electronics?
    In all honesty, I don't know enough about it to comment. Anyone care to share some thoughts?

    Best Regards,
    Trent Jackson

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    Quote Originally Posted by malc-c View Post
    Years ago most large towns had a component shop, where now most parts have to be ordered online / mailorder from places like RS / Farnell / Rapid (in the UK) and Digikey / Mouser etc in the US.
    Agreed. I can still remember buying my first LED from MM Electronics in Norwich about 30 years ago when I was at college. We sat in the corridor waiting for the classroom to open and were playing with the LED, a few resistors and a 6V lantern battery.

    We experimented with different resistor values and observed that lower value resistors gave a brighter light except that strangely with no resistor it got dimmer and the leads got warm. After a few comparisons of resistor/no resistor a horrible smell filled the corridor and the magic smoke escaped from the LED after which it was a DED (Dark Emiting Dud).

    So, approximately 30 minutes after buying the first LED we were planning a trip the following lunchtime to buy the second having learnt an expensive lesson as the LED cost the same as two pints of beer !!!!

    The vast majority of my components now come from Rapid. I started using them over 20 years ago when the catalogue was about 1/4inch thick, now it is about 2 inches thick!!!

    Having said that Maplin here in the UK still offer the option to buy most common components at most of there shops throughout the UK.
    You can not be serious !!!!

    I first became a Maplin customer in 1978 and for many years they were my prefered supplier, good catalogue, good prices and excellent service but since they turned into a replacement for Tandy (Radio Shack) I have hardly bought a thing from them as they no longer stock most of the components I want to buy and where they do still sell components that I buy they are vastly overpriced.

    I remember the first time I walked into a Maplin Shop, it was Manchester and it was superb. What I particularly liked was the fact that things like cases were openly on display and you could then visualise your project built into one whereas looking at a picture and the dimensions just didnt have the same effect.

    I looked forward to the opening of the Norwich store which although 20 miles away would still mean that I could be browsing within the hour and potentially building within 2 hours. Then the store opened..... what a disappointment.

    It was like being in Tandy. The majority of the display space was taken up by ready made toys and several of the staff looked/sounded as if they would only be able to identify the hot end of a soldering iron if it was actually turned on.

    Attempting to buy components was even worse. Maybe I have peculiar demands in purchasing parts but it seemed that many of the parts I tried to buy werent stocked in the shop but had to be sent from the main warehouse which at first they would do without any postal charges but last time I tried they also wanted P&P. Even "common" components only had minimal stock holding. I wanted 4 Standard Mono Jack Plugs. I ended up buying 2 mono and 2 stereo and strapping them to Mono because they didnt have enough.

    Maplin are now bottom of my list of component suppliers which is a shame as the "original" Maplin company was superb.
    Keith

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    Post There is still hope but don't hold your breath!

    One thing that I forgot to mention, it is possible that it might "bounce back".
    innovators, highly skilled creative geniuses might save the day.

    How?
    By getting more people interested in it. The only way to do this is to come up with projects that just simply can't be bought pre-made. Projects that will dazzle even the most hard-to-impress people. Projects that will make a salesman run down the road to purchase a soldering iron just to build it...

    Otherwise, I give it all 5 to 10 years. Within 5yrs there will be no magazines. Within 10 there will be no suppliers.

    I rest my case.

    Trent Jackson

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    I think a lot also stems from the way kids "toys" have changed.

    When I was a boy, you would have things like Train Sets and Meccano construction sets where you used your imagination to create something from the most basic of parts. As you got a bit older then you would get a chemistry set or an electronics kit and again start from first principles and create something from a pile of bits.

    Now everything is available ready made from China for less than the cost of the parts, and in the case of electronic toys, often for less than the cost of one of the parts eg display. Kids sit in fron of video games for hours on end and have little or no interest in being "creative" be it woodwork, metalwork, electronics etc instead they just sit a destroy virtual aliens.

    Even somethign a basic as a Lego set doesnt offer the stimulation it once did. Lego sets used to have brick in red or white, green baseboards and blue roof tiles. Apart from a few doors and windows almost everything needed imagination to create the finished work of art. Lego resided in a huge bucket that you rumaged through to find the bits you wanted. Now it is sold in small sets that are designed to create just one specific design, where is the imagination in that
    Keith

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    For the professionals there will always be component suppliers, but for the hobbyist there is a problem...

    You want 4 x 1k 1/4W, 3 x 33k, 1 x 8K2 and sixteen other values... half a dozen capacitor and a couple of Transistors. You hand the list to the shop assistant and half an hour later he comes back with your $1.85 worth of parts whilst costing his employer $8 in Labour. The figures just don't add up anymore. A box of 1000 resistors costs under $5 but already I can hear the hobbysists and students on the forum rioting "but I don't want 1000 of the same value"!!!! So suffer... instead of that Resistor costing you 0.5 cents, you end up paying 20 cents for a 1-off. You won't pay the money, and stop going to the shop, the shop closes down and everyone moans that the hobby is dying....

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    Default Order??? Catalog?? no way :-)

    I just went to my favorite store. It is acctually 3 big supremarkets with several floors selling everything you can wish for over the counter in single units, surface mount to things used in the WW1 russian radios :-). Today's shopping list was:

    5 pcs LM3940-3.3
    2 pcs (two) 0.25W 22 ohm hole mounted resistors
    2 pcs 5mW lasers
    2 pcs 10 mW lasers
    10 pcs 22k variable resistors
    2 MicroSD card holders

    total cost USD 12

    I really can't see the problem and tomorrow I will order PCB's with a 7 days delivery time, but I could get it in 24 hours....

    /me

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    Default hobby and business electronics

    I got into electronics about when the old amateur radio operators were dieing off. My first short wave radios were home made using tubes. Back before PCBs I collected dead TVs and cut the parts out to reuse. The resistors and capacitors were point to point connected with long leads. The use of PCB really hindered my collecting used parts.

    Twenty years ago I said I will get out of this business when my eyes are so bad I can no longer see the color code on resistors. They do not put color on resistors now! I hand solder parts the size of pepper. How can a hobbyist work with surface mount parts? Radio Shack does not sell resistors.

    I feel sad there are no HAM / electronics clubs left where we build fun stuff. There are many kids writing PC code, maybe the creative minds are there or maybe they are watching “adult cartoons”.

    Design jobs are hard to find so I have been doing ½ time plumbing and electrical for the same money. I hire engineers from Russia and China for 1/10 rate. I can see the writing on the wall---we are starting a new company with no electronics. I am very reluctantly giving up on my “hobby and business” of 35+ years. –I am feeling down today and this thread hit me wrong—sorry! I must pick my self up and finish that FPGA design.
    Hobby electronics was powered by HAM radio and that has vanished years ago. Micro-computers and robots fuel hobby electronics. Our club is getting smaller—it will not die!

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    Quote Originally Posted by keithdoxey View Post


    You can not be serious !!!!
    I didn't say they were cheap, and I did say most components

    I agree that Maplin now seem to fill their shelves with these cheap toys and the like, rather than stocking full range of components and modules, and I guess that it will only be a matter of time before the racks space for the components will be replaced with more tat. However, Maplin are fairly cheap, when compared to RS for example, and yes you can buy single resistors rather than 10 or 100.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Melanie View Post
    For the professionals there will always be component suppliers, but for the hobbyist there is a problem...

    You want 4 x 1k 1/4W, 3 x 33k, 1 x 8K2 and sixteen other values... half a dozen capacitor and a couple of Transistors. You hand the list to the shop assistant and half an hour later he comes back with your $1.85 worth of parts whilst costing his employer $8 in Labour. The figures just don't add up anymore. A box of 1000 resistors costs under $5 but already I can hear the hobbysists and students on the forum rioting "but I don't want 1000 of the same value"!!!! So suffer... instead of that Resistor costing you 0.5 cents, you end up paying 20 cents for a 1-off. You won't pay the money, and stop going to the shop, the shop closes down and everyone moans that the hobby is dying....
    In Australia, Dick Smith Electronics - a very large supplier to the enthusiast is starting to pull out. Their power house outlets, once relying on the sale of resistors, kits, etc.. are now primarily focusing on consumer electrical. As Melanie pointed out, the cost of labor can sometimes place the employer in a situation of loss. However, this can of course occur in any business that relies on the sale of "mixed bag" goods. The sale of larger, more expensive items is what makes the ends meet.

    I have often found myself walking into a store with the intentions of a specific $20 purchase only. After several minutes of browsing, something has caught my eye that I just had to have. So instead I walked of the store having spent $500! "Hmm, I only wanted parts but instead I now have a new CRO"

    Sound like an all too familiar story?

    Trent Jackson

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    Actually I disagree - Its true most DIP/through hole stuff will be gone in 10-15 years but SMD will be around for a good while longer. Most of the stores you can walk into will no longer sell parts BUT I believe mail order places will still exist, when I buy parts - for example resistors or diodes I always get them in packs of 100-200, I believe that the electronics industry will still produce packages that are usable by us.

    I can see in the future a low cost Pick and place machine coming out along with a reflow soldering station.

    But to say that all hobby electronics is going to die is hopefully absurd.

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    As Melanie pointed out earlier, "people will adapt". People who are still keen on it that is. People who are prepared to continuously educate themselves though possibly a lot of trial & error because of an absence of published literature, projects, kits, and they'll be working with surface mount components. Sure, there will always be a few people floating around with a hot soldering iron in their hand on a lazy Sunday afternoon attempting to make a LED flasher for the cost of the tools alone. No thanks.

    Trent Jackson

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    So beyond trying to depress everyone what exactly is the point of your post?

    Complaining, bickering and bringing everyone down certainly doesn't help.....

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    My intentions are far from trying to depress anyone. My motivation behind this post is to provide somewhat of an insight, on what I believe is install for the future. It's informative news. It's life. Simply put, if you're involved in some way or other with electronics in 20 years time you're either a genius or an engineer. Plenty of other hobbies around. Don't sweat it, I'm not.

    Trent Jackson

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    heh well hopefully in the future I will reach the engineer status (going to college right now), I can't belive you mainly becuase currently its my main hobby.

    I take a more optimistic look at the future - what you think will happen will happen.

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    Can't argue with that. Best of luck with your studies.

    Trent Jackson

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    back in Soviet Union there was electronic, air and r/c clubs almost in every school, it keep teens off streets and produce smart generation. Now im surprise and dont understand why in one of largest city, NY I cant find any hobby club and have to buy components online ( i know there is Radioshack but they ripoff)

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    Quote Originally Posted by T.Jackson View Post
    People who are prepared to continuously educate themselves though possibly a lot of trial & error because of an absence of published literature, projects, kits, and they'll be working with surface mount components.
    Sorry, but I dont get that comment!!!

    In most subjects you are "continuously educated" because no-one can ever know everything. New tools, components, methods are always emerging in most fields.

    Trial and error is how you learn. If you assemble a kit and it works then you know how to assemble a kit. If you assemble a kit or build something from scratch and it DOESNT WORK then you have to fix it. That means you have to learn what all the components do and how it should function. Once you have fixed it you then understand far more about the circuit and use that information in the future.

    As for the absence of "published literature", 20 years ago, if a new IC came out that looked interesting you had to pay for a poorly photocopied datasheet from your component supplier, now you just download it.

    If YOU didnt know the answer to a problem then you probably had little chance of ever getting it working unless you knew someone else who was trying to achieve the same thing, now with the internet you just Google and either find the answer straight off, or as in the case of this forum, get like minded people applying their varied experience to thrash out a solution.

    The internet has create millions of "hobby clubs" covering every subject under the sun and put people in touch with each other that would never ever have met.

    In my opinion the biggest threat to a hobby such as ours is legislation that limits the activities that we can do. ROHS, CE, UL etc etc.

    Whilst there are less magazines available and less places to buy components locally, the availability of components has never been wider. Online catalogues mean that you can buy bits from anywhere in the world whereas previously you would have been totally unaware of their existance.

    On the downside, if your computer dies then you are totally stuffed. Cant read the datasheets, cant order bits,cant program chips, and cant summon help. LOL
    Keith

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    > In most subjects you are "continuously educated" ...

    A very wise man I once knew always quoted an old Polish saying to us youngsters... "education does not end at school but at death" ...cheerful kinda guy...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Melanie View Post
    > In most subjects you are "continuously educated" ...

    A very wise man I once knew always quoted an old Polish saying to us youngsters... "education does not end at school but at death" ...cheerful kinda guy...
    I cant remember where I saw it but there was a comment that the only thing you really learn at school is How to learn and I believe that to be true. Apart from the basics of reading writing and arithmetic (or maths if you prefer) I think that very little of what I was taught in school has any bearing on my knowledge today.

    In Geography we learnt mostly about foreign countries that no longer exist or have changed their names but didnt learn where all the different counties of the UK were.

    In History we learnt starting at the year "dot" and working forwards. By the time I stopped doing history we were just about touching on the Industrial Revolution and didnt really do anything on the 20th Century whereas IMHO the last 100 years have had far more influence on our lives than the preceding 2000 therefore we should have started within living memory and worked backwards.
    Keith

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    Quote Originally Posted by Melanie View Post
    > In most subjects you are "continuously educated" ...

    A very wise man I once knew always quoted an old Polish saying to us youngsters... "education does not end at school but at death" ...cheerful kinda guy...
    I agree, in most walks of life you are always being "continuously educated".
    But I think, it's much more so a case of this with anything that's technical.

    In any professional field you never stop learning. But in any professional technical field, the re-occurrence of a whole new learning curve is by far much more frequent. For example; a doctor spends 6 years at UNI, graduates, finds a job. In a period of say, a year, what's likely to change in this field? My guess is new or improved medication and not much else.

    Consider the same scenario for an engineer. What's likely to change in a year?
    A bloody lot more! I recall my old college teacher telling me that a technician
    can render themselves redundant within 5 years of finishing their trade it they don't constantly revise things. This could mean a whole new learning curve if you've been out of it for too long. So far as to say redoing the entire trade again. Can't picture a doctor ever having to redo UNI.

    Trent Jackson
    Last edited by T.Jackson; - 13th March 2007 at 11:27. Reason: Removed text

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    Hi,

    (Inspired by the first post in this thread).

    Nowadays for young people without formal education there are no possibilities of
    a career as a technician if their experience is just hobby electronics.

    * * *

    After a X years career as technicians without formal education, people are unable to
    find new jobs in the same field. The main reason is that the job market is saturated
    with highly qualified young candidates with formal education which can afford to work
    for less money. (Young = no family, no mortgage, ...).

    As an unemployed technician without formal education (age 30-40), going back to school
    and get a degree will help me find a good job? Will I be able to compete in today's tough job market?

    Best regards,

    Luciano

  27. #27
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    Hi Luciano

    I agree with what you're saying.

    Today, without a formal education the prospects of a job, in any field are next to none. In Australia, most technicians today are actually entry level, fully qualified engineers. Seldom they repair, often they swap boards and liaise with clients. I quite often see such jobs advertised.

    Being educated in one particular area doesn't necessarily mean that you'll get to apply these skills on the job. A qualified engineer who spends most of their time liaising with clients will undoubtedly have little time left in putting their skills in say, Protel, in practice. But just having this skill set makes this person smarter in whatever they choose to do in life. At the moment I'm studying Discrete Mathematics unit, quite possibly I may never actually get to apply these newly acquired skills in life. Not directly anyway. Definitely No plans on becoming a mathematician.

    Another such industry that was in a similar disaster about 10 years back was Graphic Arts. 1,000's of qualified trades people, one minute on top $$$, next minute given the ultimatum: learn how to use a computer or lose your job. A lot of people just simply couldn't "grasp" it. Which is fair enough, they're from the old school and you have to respect this. In some sense technology can be quite very evil. No one deserves to lose their lively hood because of it.

    Best Regards,
    Trent Jackson
    Last edited by T.Jackson; - 13th March 2007 at 13:22. Reason: Added additional text

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    Thumbs up

    This thread has been fun for me to read and think about.

    It certainly stimulates a lot of memories!

    For me, it all started the summer I turned 12 (that would be 1962). I was twiddling the dial of my mother's table-model Zenith (it had AM broadcast but also two short-wave bands). I happened, quite accidentally, to find a tiny little wedge on the dial where guys were just talking to each other, interjecting odd combinations of letters and numbers.

    I had discovered ham radio on 40 meters!

    I asked my Assistant Scoutmaster (yes, I was a Boy Scout, too) about it. He wasn't a ham, but he knew some of them and introduced me. And, oh yes, he owned a television repair shop and invited me to drop in after school any time I wished.

    One of the great thrills in my life was Christmas, 1963, when I was 13. Under the tree was a kit--a Hallicrafters S-199K "Sky Buddy II" receiver (I still have it.)

    I could go on and on but, mercifully, I won't.

    Anyway, electronics has given me much enjoyment, both as a hobby and as a profession, for a lot of years. And so has amateur radio. (I just realized I've been licensed for 43 years!)

    Either my fingers are getting bigger or the parts are getting smaller . . .
    Russ
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    "Easy to use" is easy to say.

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    Thumbs up invented in the 1960’s?

    I don’t know about you, but I think part of the fun of this forum, is the fact we are from all-over the world.

    I am an old phart, and fascinated that someone from one continent can help answer a question from someone from another continent. Then someone from a third continent, or country adds even more help. All in a matter of minutes (+/- a time zone or two)

    Not linked because we are all working for one company, or government or even club. Linked by our interests, PBP (and electronics) and the desire to help others.

    This may be the future of the electronics enthusiasts. Exchanging ideas, help, arguments via the internet. We don’t live next-door to each other but we are a neighborhood of “think-alike-s ” (or think-somewhat-alike-s). Not alike in geographical, political, other terms but alike in specific interests.

    Interests that we choose to spend our spare time doing. Sure there are professionals on here, that’s the best part. The pros are as interested in the fun of electronics as the hobbyist. That’s what make this work. The rest of what makes this work, is the hobbyist, asking questions one month and helping the next.

    I think that is what makes us less tolerant of a “school project” or a “copy / paste” DMX code questions. These type of posts look like the post-er is mostly interested in the final product, the “destination”. Our ilk (type) seem to “enjoy the journey”. If we don’t know how we got there, we are not happy. We go back and try it again, just to understand. The school project” or “copy / paste” DMX code people tend to be hit and run forum people.

    Of course, along with this internet rant, is the issue of buying electronic components online. The neighborhood stores are becoming extinct, true. eBay and online suppliers are filling the gap. I bought electronic parts from local stores in the 1950’s. In-case you don’t know or remember, everything was in black and white, in those days. We never saw color before it was invented in the 1960’s. It was interesting to find out what color my clothes were!

    Web pages of electronic projects and ideas may be the future hobby magazine.

    So it looks like the future of the electronics hobbyists may be shifting a bit but the neighborhood just got a lot bigger.

    2cents,
    -Adam-

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    Default Not to drag up a long dead post...

    But why do we use PIC micros? I mean, I remember using tons of logic IC's that I can still get from about 10 different sources just thinking off the top of my head.. But I can do all that work in code and have just a few parts. Why mess with a 555 timer when i can code one and have it do exactly what i want? change is just part of it. Sometimes because we want an easier path, sometimes because the path changes on us. The old timers will still find a way to get DIPs that do what they need, the younger guys will grow up on surface mount and not have a bit of problem doing it. I mean guys are using wal-mart toaster ovens to reflow! the price of hot air irons have dropped way down. I can get a second hand analog scope that works fine for next to nothing now, and if i want, a PC based digital one for not much more... things change, but we always find a way... As far as HAM goes, i've never had an interest in it.. I mean sure, you get to play with electronics, but to a means to talk to people over a radio.. I like the phone myself.. So it may drive some people to get into electronics, but not everyone. and you guys should try working for the government or military, pretty much everything is old, old, old... and will remain that way for a long time (if you love tubes, you'll fit right in...) you might not get in as a GOV employee, but contractors are always in hot demand.. But.. if you are doing this as a hobby and to learn, now is the perfect time to be doing it! I love learning about new parts, I love learning about new tools and ways to do things. figuring out a way forward is the best part in my opinion!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan7777 View Post
    But why do we use PIC micros? I mean, I remember . . .
    I'm old enough (fortunately or not) to remember many arguments starting in the same way:

    "But why do we use transistors? I mean, I remember . . . "

    "But why do we use integrated circuits? I mean, I remember . . . "

    "But why do we use microprocessors? I mean, I remember . . . "

    I've seen the advent of SSI, LSI, and VLSI.

    Yet I look around, and I still see vacuum tubes in kilowatt and megawatt applications (as well as high-end consumer audio), discrete transistors, and integrated circuits (including ASICs and PLAs).

    And any old ham will tell you: There's nothing like building your own stuff, then proving it works by using it to talk to someone hundreds or thousands of miles away--wireless! It sure as hell beats a "blinky".

    Electronics is an art, not a science.
    Last edited by RussMartin; - 8th January 2009 at 17:04.
    Russ
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    "Easy to use" is easy to say.

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    In my area (I suppose this happens elsewhere too), electronics is descending amongst the people doing it for hobby.

    Also every day it is getting more difficult to find parts in local shops.

    Ordering by on-line shops is not an option for outside E.C. countries as there are taxes and expenses that are too much for a handful of cheap parts.

    I remember the other day,I was looking for the simplest part I always used as a child hobbist in my projects: the potensiometer. It is a part under extinction here!

    Take into account that soon all parts will be poduced only as an SMD type and it is easy to see that a hobbist will only use valves and power transistors to build something....

    Ioannis

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    I actually find it easier to get stuff today than it was 15 years ago.. At least here in Sweden I can go to two good shops and buy over disk (Elfa and Labb-elektronik), and I know several that gladly sell components to me online, from sweden.. and if that wouldnt do, there are many places in other EC countries, germany for example.

    I buy most of my stuff from

    www.electrokit.se
    www.elfa.se

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    Hi Glenn. Long time ago I visited elfa.se and although it was interesting site it was in local language. Now I see it has english support and a wide range of products.

    Nice, thanks a lot.

    Ioannis

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    Interesting perhaps, expensive certainly!

    I just picked half-a-dozen products that we buy and I know the price of... the quantity price was about 400% higher than I expected to pay for that part.

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    Don't forget Melanie that they are end resellers and not 1st or 2nd distributors like Avnet, EBV or Arrow...

    Ioannis

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    Agreed, but I'm comparing the 1000-off column price, against our buy for 1000 of the same product... no hobbyist will ever buy in those quantities, so one would expect those prices to be reasonably convergent whoever you buy the bits from.

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    Hmm, on the 1K pcs, they are too pricey, indeed.

    I faced the same problem with others too, either local or European based "distributors".

    Fortunatelly these days we have a powerful tool called internet to do a little search before buy anything.

    Ioannis

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melanie View Post
    Interesting perhaps, expensive certainly!
    Yes, Elfa is NOT known to be cheap (or have a good online shop, it really sucks)

    The reason companys order from them is that they have "everything" in stock, and for a looong time, I can probably take an oderlist that is 10 years old and send to them and get the same stuff today, also they have alot of stuff, so companys can order "everything" from them, and have it the next day. (or the same day if you pay extra.)

    The reason hobbyists buy from them is that they gladly sell to anyone, and sell components one and one, if you look at Farnell (that I would guess is their largest competitor) they dont sell anything if you dont have a correctly registred company..


    ..But I buy most stuff from electrokit, they are cheap, but they tend to have only "the most common" stuff, and some odd stuff (probably surplus), but they are nice guys and also send stuff very quick.

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    Wink

    hi,

    if you look at Farnell (that I would guess is their largest competitor) they dont sell anything if you dont have a correctly registred company..
    I do not know for your country ...

    but here, in France, everybody can buy from Farnell ... just 12 Extra Euros for P&P ...

    Alain
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    certainly the answer is " RTFM " or " RTFDataSheet " !!!
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