PBP Book

[Bruce]

Hello All,

I'm working on a book for PBP, and would like to solicit some feedback on a
few things before moving along with it.

Primarily, I'm looking for feedback on what people would prefer as for content
and book format.

The book focuses on two major areas.

1. How to use each PBP command & a detailed introduction on what each
command requires the user to setup manually before using the command.

For example; What do "I" need to do first before using ADCIN, HSEROUT, etc,
and when it may be more advantageous/appropriate for someone to configure
certain hardware registers/peripherals manually. A good example of this is for
someone using hardware PWM, or looking to use the PIC hardware USART
without the over-head of PBP commands, and for added flexibility.

I.E. as some folks already know, using a PIC with 3 hardware PWM ports,
HPWM is obviously not the way to go.

2. How to read & interpret those 500+ page PIC data sheets. This involves
putting info in PIC data sheets into laymans terms that the novice can
actually understand.

So, my questions are;

1. What do you feel would be missing from the information provided as
outlined above?

2. Would people prefer printed & bound VS a book in .HTML format?

The book was originally designed in HTML format. I.E. it will come on CD
ROM,and viewable with any browser. This is due to the heavy graphic
content that makes this type of book prohibitively expensive to publish and
allows me to keep pricing down.

By including a large number of graphics, the book can explain things in great
detail with actual photo's & schematics. My argument for this approach is that
nothing is left to the imagination. The picture/schematic shows everything in
detail.

3. What do you feel is left unexplained, or could use more detailed information
on, in the PBP manual?

4. Would you like to see a section on using the 18F series with PBP?

5. How about a section on using newer full-speed USB PIC's?

Note that my intention is not to produce a PBP project book. I would prefer
to make it a book that leaves the reader with a firm understanding of how
PBP works, and how to read & interpret PIC data sheets. I think once these
two areas are understood the reader can produce pretty much anything they
want with PBP, and a PIC.

Any & all feedback would be appreciated.

[mister_e]

Seems to be a good idea Bruce. Your intentions and plan are really great and i don't see anything else too add.

CD-ROM format or Printed... why no both? Sure the printed one will be much expensive but if some readers like me hate PDFs or can't bind the document by themself, this will make things easy. You know how i work anyway. Even with a bind book, i send it right away to redo the binding for a bullet-proof binding as ALL books on the market are just too faget to be lifetime proof. I can't use PDF as reference (for stuff i consider useful). I really prefer the touch of paper.

For what i feel now your book will need at least a thousand pages or so... don't count on me to use a PDF, HTML file. BUT having the file, i'll send it for binding.

If you do some Bind book, some may like the idea to have removable pages and have the flexibility to add their own comments betweens pages... Even if it make the book much sensitive to loose page after few/many uses. Those kind of books really sucks IMHO. One day or another you'll loose a page or more. One compiler gave that kind of stupid binding book in the past.. Why? well i can't say but i hate that.

Keeping pricing down is a must. My own opinon will be to produce only PDF or HTML CD-ROM but printable if the user want to bind it himself. BTW, is there any country in whole world who don't have any binding place close?

4. Would you like to see a section on using the 18F series with PBP?

Unless you introduce some assembly comparison, i can't see why it must exist such a section. That's still a black programable component with some pins after all. OK right, most 18F offer more interesting option but if user is still too lazzy to read a little bit the datasheet or surfing on the Microchip website... it's his own problem.

A section wich discuss of 12XXX, 16XXX, 18XXXX difference could be interesting if it provide many details as
What 14Bit core mean?
When using 10F, 12F, 16F or 18F

5. How about a section on using newer full-speed USB PIC's?

Good idea, but you know what it imply too. You'll need to explain both side, PC side and PIC side. So now you'll need to explain VB (or else PC language)+ PBP. It still a good idea BTW. Refering /pointing user to Mecanique easy HID and the Jan Axelson book could ensure you some $$$ OR at least you can negociate with them

The only thing i would suggest too add is to talk about

1. some IDE like MPLAB, MicroCodeStudio
2. device programmer
3. ICSP

If you feel i can help on anything, let me know on my private e-mail. I will be really glad to help you.

Good project, good idea. I'm sure this will be a success and handy for many beginner, novice see expert user. It's always interesting to know/learn different point of view as nobody can say that they use the right and ultimate programming method.

mmm, maybe i should do a book too! LMAO... no way, not intelligent enough for that. Project book... maybe.... mmm Melanie, Darrel, Bruce why not doing it together? Just an idea

[bbarney]

Bruce
This sounds like a book most people here really need myself included especially item 2 how to wade through that datasheet.
May be a section on porting code from asm to picbasic nothing to elaborate just something to help people get started.
I think the cd option is the best way to keep it affordable
I volunter too proof read your book when it's done
Steve with over 1900 post's you've already wrote a book

[DynamoBen]

I really like the idea of a printed book. For me they are easier to read and more portable.

As far as content: I really think there should be a programming practices, methods, and conventions section. One idea would be PICBasic "standard practices." Writing simple programs that blink an LED are simple and easy when you start scaling up from there you start running into interrupts, timers, and code size issues. There is no documentation on how to layout a program logically, what methods to use, or the big picture of embedded programming. I think a big overview of good programming practices might be nice, basically dos and don'ts of PICs and programming.

[sougata]

Hi,

While PBP makes your life easier as stepping into the world of PIC micros it does have its own shortcomings while developing professional applications. I would like to have a PIC primer first that lets even newbies touch your book. Then lets enter into solutions with simple problems. Now addup where PBP loses. Speed, Codespace utilization, Interrupts, coding style to name a few. For example when you toggle a port.bit (14bit) it always touches the TRIS registers which is unnecessary in terms of code, execution speed. I would then like to have stuffs that could make life a little bit easier like ready code+circuit snippets.Reading a datasheet is not a big deal if you have at least read one thorouhgly. Architecture remaining please try to build a foundation stone for the readers. If it is on a CD-ROM then have some nifty utilities on-board , like auto code snippet generator. If I am asking too much then I am still dreaming and the tranculizers that I took last night are still active

[mister_e]

Bruce i feel you'll need to do more than one book now

1. an introduction to PIC and Datasheet
2. an introduction to PBP and command explanation
3. an introduction to PIC programming using PBP
4. General programming tips
5. Hardware consideration using PIC
6. How to write program on a PIC using your fingers, a keyboard, a PIC programmer and a PC...OK just kidding for that one

PWM, CCP, TIMERs, Interrupts and ALL internal PIC stuff should be covered in details.. oh well that's still in the 'How to read and interpret datasheet' or in the 'Introduction to PIC'

Glad to see you'll do it for Melabs Compiler

[mister_e]

Steve with over 1900 post's you've already wrote a book

well, remove post where i'm wrong, where i'd repeat CMCON=7, ANSEL=0,...,..., heated debate, personnal opinion and you'll probably discover that i did 'round 200 usefull post or less

By his deep PIC knowledge, Bruce is one of those to have the ability to write the ultimate reference book. If some don't know his company or website, have a look to www.rentron.com. There's a bunch of usefull stuff: code example, project for PBP and other. And as if it was not enough, you'll also discover some VisualBasic tips. What can you ask more?

Even if i've never met him and i'm not associate in any part of, Bruce is one of those i highely recommend to everybody's looking for a serious supplier.

Sure i'll be one of the first to wait at his business door when the firsts release will be available.

[rhino]

Great idea Bruce! You're one of the few I could see creditable enough to undertake such a task. Although you mentioned that you don't want it to be a project book, it would be nice to sprinkle it with some small applications that make the reader think outside of the box, expose some of those features avialable with pics that a beginner would not normally think of. Examples from your website projects for example. Maybe not complete apps, but useable chunks that the reader can piece together and stimulate the brain. What is your target release date? Sign me up... looking forward to it!

[Melanie]

What I want to know, looking at everyone’s comments is “Where do you draw the line?”.

Now I’ll get seriously flamed for this (like I care), but I’ll say it anyway. The PICBasic manual as it stands is 90% of the way there. The other 10% is in your PICs Datasheet.

If you don’t know how to program in Basic – go to night school.

If you don’t know electronics – go get a course at your local college.

But what I see is folks tinkering with things they haven’t a clue about, asking others for help and then not understanding the answers they’re given. How do you connect a Matrix Keypad to your PIC? – well I can think of at least six different ways of doing it – including two completely different ways that use just one I/O pin for a whole 4x4 Matrix Keypad… how many examples will we put in the book?, because I’ll bet the one you don’t put in is the one somebody’s going to moan about that you haven’t got.

I’m sorry to say this Bruce, and please prove me wrong in a couple of years time, but you’ll end up writing a complete microprocessor electronics course encompassing everything from basic Ohms Law (ie how to calculate a potential divider so as not to overload your PICs input pins) through to why the slowest peripherals should be given the greatest interrupt priority (bet nobody on this list ever thought of that one!). Then after spending six months of your life on your publication, it’ll take a further sixty just to recoup the initial investment in time and money.

Go look at Heathkit Educational Courses… big binders full of basic but useful stuff (costing a fortune) but that’s exactly what it cost to produce. And to be really useful to everyone, that’s what it will end up as – you just won’t be able to do it for $19.95 and whilst a HTML/CD version is great, the instant you start selling it, it’ll be ripped-off and published for free somewhere on the net.

Back to my original question – “Where do you draw the line?”. Some time back a colleague of mine produced an excellent Accounts package for the PC. He was swamped with support calls with brainless questions like “What’s a Nominal Ledger?”, “What’s Depreciation?”, “What’s a Balance Sheet?”. Whilst his manual was great for setting up and using the product, he forgot that the users were totally inept, didn’t have a clue about Accounting and expected his product manual to be a complete Accounts Course.

In the same way, the PICBasic manual is a Product Manual and not a Programming Course. They provide you with information about a command or feature, and they make the assumption (perhaps wrong assumption) that you know what you’re doing. Which means any attempt to expand on that becomes a training course in programming and electronics.

Never mind Sleepless in Seattle, call me Cynical from London.

[kallis]

cheerz.....

[bbazor]

Bruce,

Any update on the book? Is it going to happen anytime soon?

[Bruce]

I'm about half way there, but I can't honestly say when it will be finished.
It's something I can only work on in my spare time.

[mister_e]

How on earth dare you to have ANY spare time?

[Urmish Mehta]

Bruce:
Would you please post any updates on your PBP book? Or is it already out and I missed it?
Thanks,
Urmish

[malc-c]

Well Bruce started this thread in April 2006, so if Bruce is about half way through by mid February '07..... It should be in the shops in time for this coming Christmas

[Normnet]

A new 3rd edition of "The Art of Electronics" by Horowitz and Hill was close to being published like a year or two ago. There were preorders taken. An electronics Bible. I know one problem is what to include as electronics keeps changing.

Anyone know the current status?

Norm

[housefull]

Hello All,

I'm working on a book for PBP, and would like to solicit some feedback on a
few things before moving along with it.

Primarily, I'm looking for feedback on what people would prefer as for content
and book format.

The book focuses on two major areas.

1. How to use each PBP command & a detailed introduction on what each
command requires the user to setup manually before using the command.

For example; What do "I" need to do first before using ADCIN, HSEROUT, etc,
and when it may be more advantageous/appropriate for someone to configure
certain hardware registers/peripherals manually. A good example of this is for
someone using hardware PWM, or looking to use the PIC hardware USART
without the over-head of PBP commands, and for added flexibility.

I.E. as some folks already know, using a PIC with 3 hardware PWM ports,
HPWM is obviously not the way to go.

2. How to read & interpret those 500+ page PIC data sheets. This involves
putting info in PIC data sheets into laymans terms that the novice can
actually understand.

So, my questions are;

1. What do you feel would be missing from the information provided as
outlined above?

2. Would people prefer printed & bound VS a book in .HTML format?

The book was originally designed in HTML format. I.E. it will come on CD
ROM,and viewable with any browser. This is due to the heavy graphic
content that makes this type of book prohibitively expensive to publish and
allows me to keep pricing down.

By including a large number of graphics, the book can explain things in great
detail with actual photo's & schematics. My argument for this approach is that
nothing is left to the imagination. The picture/schematic shows everything in
detail.

3. What do you feel is left unexplained, or could use more detailed information
on, in the PBP manual?

4. Would you like to see a section on using the 18F series with PBP?

5. How about a section on using newer full-speed USB PIC's?

Note that my intention is not to produce a PBP project book. I would prefer
to make it a book that leaves the reader with a firm understanding of how
PBP works, and how to read & interpret PIC data sheets. I think once these
two areas are understood the reader can produce pretty much anything they
want with PBP, and a PIC.

Any & all feedback would be appreciated.

Bruce
This sounds like a book most people here really need myself included especially item 2 how to wade through that datasheet.
May be a section on porting code from asm to picbasic nothing to elaborate just something to help people get started.
I think the cd option is the best way to keep it affordable
I volunter too proof read your book when it's done
Steve with over 1900 post's you've already wrote a book