PIC USB HID breakout board


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  1. #1
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    Default PIC USB HID breakout board

    Hi, It's been a few years since I posted anything hope I'm not posting in the wrong thread. I'm working on a project where I need a small breakout board that is USB to serial and HID device. I've been looking at all the USB to serial breakout boards but can't seem to find one that is HID compliant.

    I want to be able to send commands from my PIC through the keyboard buffer on my PC. Basically working on a sensor in front of a kiosk that would trigger the web page to come out of sleep mode when a person approaches. Does anyone know of such a very small breakout board I can accomplish this with?

    Thanks again sorry if I am in the wrong forum/thread it's been years since I've been around here.

    David

  2. #2
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    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    FTDI sells just about every version of USB-to-Serial and back again type converters. Peruse their web site. Another option is to get HIDmaker where you control the USB transmissions yourself. (I have HIDmaker that I rely on, and one of those converters you mention that I could never get to work.)

  3. #3
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    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    mpgmike
    As far as I know FTDI doesn't have HID devices(all require driver).

    DavyJones
    You just need pic with USB and this http://www.picbasic.co.uk/forum/show...t=usb+keyboard

  4. #4
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    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    It looks like FT260 may but this looks even simpler and promising what do you guys think http://www.holtek.com.tw/documents/1...B564-xv110.pdf this sounds like it should be fairly easy to integrate with a pic

  5. #5
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    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    I need to be able to send data via the HID so my web page can pick it up and react. The idea is the user simply plugs the device into their USB port and do nothing else.
    Example I have a QR code reader that is USB and HID driven. I plug it in open notepad and whatever I scan gets thrown at the keyboard buffer. I have my web browser open in kiosk mode and my javascript scanning for a carriage return. When it sees the carriage return it knows it has scanned a QR code and I can react to what it has scanned.

    The idea is to have a USB device plugged in that will sense something like a PIR sensor and then I will send data the same way through the HID. My javascript will pick it up and react. I can't really do it any other way.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    You need a HID device that declares itself as a scanner reader (one of the sub classes within HID). I'm not sure you will find a generic off-the-shelf converter that happens to be programmed as a QR reader.

  7. #7

    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    HID compliance is a purley a software issue. HID devices will have a HID class-specific descriptor, typical HID devices are keyboards, mice, vendor (sometimes called custom). Obviously the device must comply with the other software and hardware requirments to act as a USB device. All USB capable PIC's can be programmed to be HID compliant.
    George

  8. #8
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    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    Quote Originally Posted by mpgmike View Post
    You need a HID device that declares itself as a scanner reader (one of the sub classes within HID). I'm not sure you will find a generic off-the-shelf converter that happens to be programmed as a QR reader.
    Well I don't need a scanner that was just an example. I will be building a device that takes a trigger from a PIR sensor and sends it to the keyboard buffer just like a QR code scanner does. The idea is to have the PIR scanner send to the keyboard buffer a string I can parse out with my javascript something like 11+"wake"+28/r then my javascript can react appropriately and come out of sleep/slideshow mode when a user approached he kiosk. The Holtek HT42B564 I mentioned in my previous post looks like the perfect option USB HID to UART which should eliminate the need for a specific pic that is USB capable and the programming that would go along with it.

    It took me a while but I managed to locate the HT42B564 but will take some time to get here. I can keep everyone posted with my testing of the HT42B564 if they are interested seems a little easier and opens up more pic's to use USB HID then just the few specialized one I see for USB.

  9. #9

    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    Ok, the USB bit will be easy, all you need to do is slightly modify the USB keyboard example (assuming there is one, if not there are a zillion on the interweb tha you can port). The problem you will have is that how does the PC (or indeeed you) know what input came from the real keyboard and what from your pseudo keyboard.
    George

  10. #10
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    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    Quote Originally Posted by towlerg View Post
    Ok, the USB bit will be easy, all you need to do is slightly modify the USB keyboard example (assuming there is one, if not there are a zillion on the interweb tha you can port). The problem you will have is that how does the PC (or indeeed you) know what input came from the real keyboard and what from your pseudo keyboard.
    That's the easiest part actually.... the javascript will pick up every keystroke so you code it to listen for an STX or start of text/transmission and ETX end of text/transmission so my example I will send a binary 11 as STX followed by the literal "wake" then an ETX of 28
    javscript will catch every key and ignore everything until it sees the 11 once it sees that it will listen until it gets the 28. I will make sure it says "wake" then take the appropriate action. You normally don't have a physical keyboard attached to a kiosk and only invoke the virtual one when you are looking for user input.

  11. #11

    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    Something like a 18F25K50 and you'll hardly have any components at all, no crystal required.
    George

  12. #12
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    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    Agreed the 18F25K50 looks like it would work fine. I'm going to try and put a couple proof of concept/prototypes together with both. When I say both I mean the 18F25K50 and a proto using the HT42B564 and a less robust PIC to see how well the HT42B564 (I found them and have 10 on order) and see which route is easiest. It's a trade off.... more components using the HT42B564 but less pins for the PIC since it does not need to be so robust and less programming on the PIC part where the 18F25K50 would have more programming and the examples I have read about the folks seem to have difficulty implementing HID.
    I can follow up on my success/failure with the HT device if folks want me too.

  13. #13

    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    I suggest you try running the HID examples, it realy is much less complex than may first appear. Most of the complexity is dealt with by libraries, you simply (ha bloody ha) mainpulate the descriptor. I will admit the format of the descriptor is not very friendly but in your case although there isn't a prepackaged HID Keyboard descriptor in the supplied examples (I just checked) there are several on the forum.
    George

  14. #14
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    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    The PIC18F14K50 is a USB device with only 20 pins, but requires an external crystal to achieve the required 48 MHz Fosc for USB 2.0. Also, it has half the buffers and each buffer is half the size of the larger PIC18F25K50 version.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    Geroge, Agreed..... I'm looking around to try and find an example to follow along with but having trouble locating any. What are you searching for in the forum? I'm looking for "USB" but mostly see HID joystick,
    Thanks
    David

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    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    Ah I think I found something that looks promising. I won't be needing a keypad but I think this might be a concept I can build on. Do you think I should start here? http://www.picbasic.co.uk/forum/show...9516#post99516
    Thanks
    David

  17. #17

    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    Yes, thats one of the one of several on the board.

    BTW I know you want to use HID, for obvious reasons, but mouse and keyboard are not the only HID devices.

    I know it's a chore to read all the way thro (I must admit I gave up) but Jan Axelson's book USB Complete it a great reference.
    George

  18. #18
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    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    Understood.... I am learning a good deal about USB as I research this for my project. I'm trying as much as possible of having to have an active x control or other (flash) secondary application that would be necessary for the success of my web page. Compatibility issues between browsers makes this a real PITA. Ultimately this should be as easy as plugging in a reader such as my QR code reader and just work without selecting a com port etc... real plug and play as much as possible. I've got a couple of the 18F on order and a 48mhz crystal so I can do a little development while I wait on the H42B564's (still don't know if those will enumerate as a keyboard can't seem to find out if they will or not) I'll check out the book thanks
    David

    P.S. have you any projects using the 18f integrated as HID keyboard?

  19. #19
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    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    Why not just use generic HID? You aren't required to select a specific sub-category. I use it exclusively.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    I posted link to keyboard example... Just look above.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    got it thanks... I overlooked that. Does this code set up the pick to be enumerated as a keyboard? It doesn't matter that it is talkin about multi media keyboard I don't think that will matter as long as I can send data to the keyboard buffer.
    Regards
    David

  22. #22
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    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    I'm not sure, but I think that you should be able to detect key press from any keyboard.
    There must be somewhere on forum full keyboard example. I used it to create macro keyboard for Eagle CAD.
    I found it
    http://www.picbasic.co.uk/forum/show...795#post128795
    So you have descriptor for keyboard, and most of program.

    I never had success with writing descriptor...
    But I usualy menage to get it working with descriptors from net.
    Also if this is commercial product you must provide unique PID and VID. You can usually get one for free from microchip. You use their VID and get unique PID. And it's free as long as you use it with their product(eg PIC).

  23. #23
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    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    thanks..... I can't seem to open that attachment it wants to save the .php file... any suggestions?
    David

  24. #24
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    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    Open in notepad, select all, copy, open Microcode studio, paste, save as.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    Has anyone ever tried to compile the keyboard HID on either PIC16F1454 or PIC16F1455 less pins and looks like they are supported with PBP3.1
    Thanks
    David

  26. #26

    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    @mbgmike
    Why not just use generic HID? You aren't required to select a specific sub-category. I use it exclusively.
    Usually I would agree with you but in the case ie keyboardless PC it's one less bit of code to write.


    @pedja089
    I'm not sure, but I think that you should be able to detect key press from any keyboard.
    Actually it's dead easy to fake a keyboard, you just put the keycodes into the buffer and call tx. Which you'll see the keyboard example does, but in response to key depressions instead of logic in this case.


    @DavyJones I wouldn't look at 16F USB capable devices, there really is no advantage, not even price I suspect. I imagine they are intended exclusivly for commercial keyboard/mice.
    George

  27. #27
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    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    Quote Originally Posted by pedja089 View Post
    Open in notepad, select all, copy, open Microcode studio, paste, save as.
    KBDDESC.txt will not open, it tries but it does not download, open, I can't save it etc. it tries to save the .php web page itself.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    Just curious about the 16F series that look like they are supported and documented. I was looking primarily at the smaller footprint the device offers and since I think at this point I would only need one GPIO or perhaps UART for input the 18F's just seem overkill for my project. The 16F are overkill too.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    There are not many options in the PIC 8-bit category for USB. 16- and 32-bit PICs have USB built into many of their offerings.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    the 16F1454 sounds like it would work without the oscillator and 14 pins instead of https://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/PIC16F1454
    instead of 28 on the 18F25K50

  31. #31

    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    You're correct re. the ability of 16F1454 to run USB with a crystal.

    For the purpose of the project at hand I suspect that 16F1454 will not have enough power to run the fake keyboard and all the other stuff you're trying to do. It has 1K (in total including USB buffers) RAM and 8K ROM. Unless your project is super price or space sensative, stick with 16 bit devices, a good compromise of size, peripherals and features is a 18F25K50.

    If IC size is real issue, don't use PDIP, go for QFN or SSOP.
    George

  32. #32
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    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    Quote Originally Posted by DavyJones View Post
    KBDDESC.txt will not open, it tries but it does not download, open, I can't save it etc. it tries to save the .php web page itself.
    I can download file without any problem.
    Try from another PC, or from phone...

  33. #33
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    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    Quote Originally Posted by towlerg View Post
    You're correct re. the ability of 16F1454 to run USB with a crystal.

    For the purpose of the project at hand I suspect that 16F1454 will not have enough power to run the fake keyboard and all the other stuff you're trying to do. It has 1K (in total including USB buffers) RAM and 8K ROM. Unless your project is super price or space sensative, stick with 16 bit devices, a good compromise of size, peripherals and features is a 18F25K50.

    If IC size is real issue, don't use PDIP, go for QFN or SSOP.
    George, understood.... I have a couple of the 18F's on their way along with the proper crystal to put together a proof of concept. The 16F very cheap for giggles I will get the 454 worse case scenario there is I just dropped a couple of bucks for nothing. Also I kind of planned on the QFN or SSOP, I have the 18F's coming in PDIP so I can work on my breadboard and get things working first.
    Regards
    David

  34. #34
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    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    Quote Originally Posted by pedja089 View Post
    I can download file without any problem.
    Try from another PC, or from phone...
    aha! your correct it was IE.... Chrome worked fine thank you.
    P.S. I would never use my phone for work I'm to old and my fingers to fat ha.

  35. #35

    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    Have you got the keyboard that pedja089 posted working?

    I don't have any PBP USB code but I do have this simplified demo in Proton - should be really easy to port. I'm not sure if this will help or hinder but ...

    You see that it waits till attached then sends the characters P,r,o,t,o,n with their modifiers (see bottom of def file for modifiers), after each character is sends an all nulls array to indicate key release. If I get time in my busy schedule I'll try to port to PBP.
    Code:
    '***********************************************************    
    '* Name    : USB_Keyboard_Example.bas                      *    
    '* Note    : keyboard emulate - send the string "Proton"   *
    '* Compiler: 3.5.9.0                                       *    
    '***********************************************************
    
      Device = 18F2550
      Declare All_Digital = True
      Xtal = 48
      Declare Stack_Size = 20
    
      Include "Keyboard_Descriptor.inc"     ' std supplied keyboard descriptor
      Include "KeyboardDefs.Inc"
    
      Dim KeyBuffer[8]    As Byte
    
    '*************************** M A I N ******************************
    
    MAIN:
      DelayMS 100                                  ' Wait a little
      If USB_tAttached = False Then GoTo MAIN      ' wait till we attach
    
      Clear KeyBuffer
      GoSub SendKey[keyp, LeftShiftMask]           ' P
    	GoSub SendKey[keyr, NoModifier]              ' r	
    	GoSub SendKey[keyo, NoModifier]              ' o	
    	GoSub SendKey[keyt, NoModifier]              ' t	
    	GoSub SendKey[keyo, NoModifier]              ' o	
    	GoSub SendKey[keyn, NoModifier]              ' n	
    	DelayMS 1000                                 ' Wait a second
      GoTo MAIN
    
    '********************************************************************************
    '* Name    : SendKey				                                                    *
    '* Purpose : Sends Key Report  				                                          *
    '********************************************************************************
    SendKey:                               ' (pKey As Byte, pModifier As Byte = $00)
      Dim pKey As Byte
      Dim pModifier As Byte
      Pop pModifier
      Pop pKey
      '
      KeyBuffer[0]	= pModifier            ' Send desired Key
      KeyBuffer[1]	= 0
      KeyBuffer[2]	= pKey
      KeyBuffer[3]	= 0
      KeyBuffer[4]	= 0
      KeyBuffer[5]	= 0
      KeyBuffer[6]	= 0
      KeyBuffer[7]	= 0
      HID_WriteArray(KeyBuffer,8)          ' HID_TxReport(HID_Report_In,8)
    
      KeyBuffer[0]	= 0                    ' Send Key Release
      KeyBuffer[1]	= 0
      KeyBuffer[2]	= 0
      KeyBuffer[3]	= 0
      KeyBuffer[4]	= 0
      KeyBuffer[5]	= 0
      KeyBuffer[6]	= 0
      KeyBuffer[7]	= 0
      HID_WriteArray(KeyBuffer,8)          ' HID_TxReport(HID_Report_In,8)
    
      Return
    
    ' end of USB_Keyboard_Example.bas
    and the file file containing keycodes
    Code:
    '****************************************************************
    '*  Name    : KeyboardDefs.inc                                  *
    '*  Author  : Nathan Herbert                                    *
    '*  Notice  : Copyright (c) 2009                                *
    '*          : All Rights Reserved                               *
    '*  Date    : 09/03/2015                                        *
    '*  Version : 1.0                                               *
    '*  Notes   : Converted from Swordfish example                  *
    '*          :                                                   *
    '****************************************************************
    
      Symbol keya = 4
      Symbol keyb	= 5		
      Symbol keyc	= 6
      Symbol keyd	= 7
      Symbol keye	= 8
      Symbol keyf	= 9
      Symbol keyg	= 10
      Symbol keyh	= 11
      Symbol keyi	= 12
      Symbol keyj	= 13
      Symbol keyk	= 14
      Symbol keyl	= 15
      Symbol keym	= 16
      Symbol keyn	= 17
      Symbol keyo	= 18
      Symbol keyp	= 19
      Symbol keyq	= 20
      Symbol keyr	= 21
      Symbol keys	= 22
      Symbol keyt	= 23
      Symbol keyu	= 24
      Symbol keyv	= 25
      Symbol keyw	= 26
      Symbol keyx	= 27
      Symbol keyy	= 28
      Symbol keyz	= 29
      Symbol keyone		      = 30
      Symbol keytwo		      = 31
      Symbol keythree	    	= 32
      Symbol keyfour	     	= 33
      Symbol keyfive	     	= 34
      Symbol keysix 	     	= 35
      Symbol keyseven	    	= 36
      Symbol keyeight	    	= 37
      Symbol keynine	     	= 38
      Symbol keyzero	     	= 39
      Symbol keyenter		    = 40
      Symbol keyEscape	  	= 41
      Symbol keybackspace   = 42
      Symbol keyTAB	      	= 43
      Symbol keyspacebar  	= 44
      Symbol keyunderscore	= 45
      Symbol keyequals		  = 46
      Symbol keyleftbrace 	= 47
      Symbol keyrightbrace	= 48
      Symbol keybackslash 	= 49
      Symbol keyhash	    	= 50
      Symbol keysemicolon 	= 51
      '
      Symbol keycomma	  	  = 54
      Symbol keyperiod	  	= 55
      Symbol keyslash		    = 56
      Symbol keycapslock	  = 57
      Symbol keyf1	      	= 58
      Symbol keyf2	      	= 59
      Symbol keyf3	      	= 60
      Symbol keyf4	      	= 61
      Symbol keyf5	      	= 62
      Symbol keyf6      		= 63
      Symbol keyf7	      	= 64
      Symbol keyf8        	= 65
      Symbol keyf9	      	= 66
      Symbol keyf10       	= 67
      Symbol keyf11       	= 68
      Symbol keyf12       	= 69
      '
      Symbol keyhome	    	= 74
      Symbol keypageup	  	= 75
      Symbol keyDELETE      = 76			
      Symbol keypagedown  	= 78
      Symbol keyrightarrow	= 79
      Symbol keyleftarrow 	= 80
      Symbol keydownarrow 	= 81
      Symbol keyuparrow	    = 82
    
      ' Modifier bytes
      Symbol LeftCtrlMask	  = %00000001
      Symbol LeftShiftMask	= %00000010
      Symbol LeftAltMask		= %00000100
      Symbol LeftGUIMask		= %00001000
      Symbol RightCtrlMask	= %00010000
      Symbol RightShiftMask	= %00100000
      Symbol RightAltMask 	= %01000000
      Symbol RightGUIMask 	= %10000000
      Symbol NoModifier    	= %00000000
    
      ' End of KeyboardDefs.inc
    Last edited by towlerg; - 29th November 2018 at 13:40. Reason: old and stupid
    George

  36. #36
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    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    George, there is some great stuff here to look at. This is basically what I am trying to accomplish. I have the 18F on order should be here in a day or 2 so I'll probably start working with them then.
    I am not familiar with Proton but willing to learn. I've always been using PBP and microcode studios to do any PIC programming. Looking at this example you sent looks a little easier.

  37. #37
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    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    Here is my code.
    My UsbKeyboard.zip
    I didn't write any of USB stuff, everything is from forum and internet. I just get pieces together to get it working.
    I wrote only part of Main code.
    I think that I used PIC18F87j50, so you probably have to change fuses.

  38. #38
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    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    is mykeyboard.zip the entire program and includes? What did you compile this with is this with pbp/microcode studio or proton files?
    David

  39. #39
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    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    For the first part of this project the ultrasonic/sonar sensor came in: https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/6..._rm-846184.pdf
    Pretty sweet little device. I have it running on a 12f683 right now just to test and setup and everything was a breeze. the 9.6mv per inch was a bonus as well. Just divide by 2 and get the distance in inches (give or take) since I am just going to try and detect a person within say 3' that tolerance +- will be fine. don't really need to get accurate to the actual inch say between 24" and 48" will work fine. I'll mess with that. Might give me the opportunity too to allow the end user to set up the range in the javascript if I can get the usb hid to work I can pass "range:32" and check in the script if it is between their range. Nice I can stop ranging by pulling pin 2 (RX) low. I think there is some discrepancy on their datasheet I think RX needs to go low not the PWM pin. This may work out nice if there is a way to read the hid to see if capslock is pressed if there is a way to send something like that back to the hid keyboard buffer through javascript this way I could disable it while someone is using the kiosk and then re-enable it once they have moved away. Now all I need to do is wait for my PIC's to come in tomorrow to try and put it all together.

    Initially I was going to go PIR sensor but that's not panning out as I had hoped. They work but detection is to far but since the do detect IR heat maybe a combination of both. Not sure the sonar picks up objects in the foreground from the beginning. right now in my office it shows around 80" which is about right for the first object, my chair, is from the device. The PIR sitting next to it is off. When I move the PIR sensor goes on. So a combination of both might be good. The IR says yes there is movement and the ultrasonic shows how close. PIR is only going to go on when it's a human once it goes off I can check the range.
    Thoughts?
    David
    Last edited by DavyJones; - 30th November 2018 at 12:44.

  40. #40

    Default Re: PIC USB HID breakout board

    Pedja's program is PBP.

    BTW many devices are free to use with Proton including 18F2550 so if you download the trial version you should be able to compile my code as is.
    George

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