Goodbye

[Scampy]

For me I tend to lurk around this forum less frequent than I used to. I've not used my EasyPIC5 board to program PICs via PB Pro for a few years now. The last project I worked on (hobby project) was Arduino based because it had readily available library files that suited the modern hardware (TFT screens) I wanted to use. Yes I too found I was spending more time sorting out syntac errors and typos etc, and the structure seemed alien after using basic for so many years, but everything in life is swings and roundabouts. Yes if funds permitted upgrading to PB3 which might have made things easier, but my personal circumstances has meant that I've never been able to justify the upgrade cost which would have included a new EasyPIC board to support modern PICs to make use of the functions PB3 offer.

There was a similar thread http://www.picbasic.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=21146 I started a couple of years back and since then I've noticed less and less posts on the forum. I'm guessing that with more and more one board computers coming out that offer far more than an Arduino or a basic PIC people are moving away from the whole project development side of things, where PCBs are designed and built around the PIC, which for me was all part of the fun.

I would agree that it's the people that make this forum, and sadly more and more of the core experienced members have moved away. The loss of DT impacted the forum immensely, and may have been the turning point for the decline. His library of include files filling the gaps left in PBPro and making things a lot more easy to use and efficient. Only a handful of old members still regularly post (Richard, Henrik, Ioannis etc) and should they frequent the forum less and less then the forum will simply gather cobwebs as an archive.

Its a shame things have got in this situation as BASIC is for a lot of people easy to pick up and understand, but IMO PBP has slipped in to decline and has now been left behind. Before Arduino became as main stream as it is now, MikroElectronika was PBP main competition, and they continue to support new hardware both physically through their main development boards and add on modules, but also in their compilers. PBP was slow to follow suit and as mentioned, been left way behind to a point now where it is too costly to catch up.

Anyway, that's my take on things....

[Normnet]

Dumb question. Is Arduino similar to a $50 stamp and is the processor available in its self for $2.00 or so or do all Arduino projects require a $50 board with the supporting circuitry? Also don't forget Meliane as one of the supporting members lost as time went on.

Norm

[Ioannis]

I could not follow you on this Norm. You mean that the Arduino is expensive? If so, chinese boards are available for much less.

But anyway, it is targeted to a different audience, with different expectations and knowledge.

And sure not to professionals in any way.

Ioannis

[HenrikOlsson]

The Arduino hardware is simply a microcontroller (an 8-bit Atmel job in its original form) with a bootloader mounted on a somewhat standardized form factor PCB with headers. There are many different versions of "Arduino" based on many different microcontrollers, from 8 all the way to 32 bits I believe.

It's not running an interpreter but compiled/assembled code from the Arduino IDE (which I believe is built upon the gcc compiler). You can download the bootloader and flash it into a blank microcontroller using a device programmer (which can actually be another Arduino) and it "becomes" an Arduino.

So no, the Arduino is not similar to a BASIC Stamp (which is running a propritary interpreter) and you can buy blank microcontrollers from "anywhere" and program the Arduino bootloader into them yourself.

[Ioannis]

Not just any AVR MCU you like I think. Only those supported.

And then you have to accept and tolerate the limitations of the environment, as you have no word on which pins will be input/output/analog/pwm etc.

Of course this is expected to be so that there is compatibility with the extension boards and libs.

Like what Apple did only Arduino proved more successful.

Great idea for specific purposes (learning, hobby or education).

Ioannis

[Scampy]

Dumb question. Is Arduino similar to a $50 stamp and is the processor available in its self for $2.00 or so or do all Arduino projects require a $50 board with the supporting circuitry? Also don't forget Meliane as one of the supporting members lost as time went on.

Norm

You can pick up an Arduino Mega2560 board for around £10, and you can also pick up just the chip (probably for around the same amount) but the package if the chip does not make it practical to program it and then use that in a custom designed PCB as you would a PIC. As Ioannis has mentioned, the platform is not aimed at the professional developer

I agree that Meliane was also a good contributor, but there were also a lot of others, and I could be here for hours if I included everyone in that tribute, and most have since moved on.

[Normnet]

You can pick up an Arduino Mega2560 board for around £10, and you can also pick up just the chip (probably for around the same amount) but the package if the chip does not make it practical to program it and then use that in a custom designed PCB as you would a PIC. As Ioannis has mentioned, the platform is not aimed at the professional developer

I agree that Meliane was also a good contributor, but there were also a lot of others, and I could be here for hours if I included everyone in that tribute, and most have since moved on.

You are saying its not practical to program an Arduino supported chip and place it into a custom designed PBC as you would a PIC?
If so is it common for Arduino projects to be made up of jumpered development modules to make up the final project?

[Scampy]

You are saying its not practical to program an Arduino supported chip and place it into a custom designed PBC as you would a PIC?
If so is it common for Arduino projects to be made up of jumpered development modules to make up the final project?

To a degree yes. The ATMEGA 2560 is an 8 bit micro running at 16mhz, with 256 KB of program space, but its in a 100 pin TQFP package which makes programming and soldering to a custom hobby PCB more of a challenge compared to an 8 bit PIC which is in a DIP or SOIC package.

I've just ported a project that was originally developed around an 18F based PIC in DIP package. I developed a custom PCB with all the supporting components on it and then would program the PIC via my EasyPIC5 and then place that into the board. Porting this to the Ardiumo based platform the custom PCB had the majority of the supporting components on it, but the board was designed to plug directly into the header pins on the Mega2560 board, like a large custom shield (as can be seen here testing the TFT screen). The mega was a cloan purchased for £11 from Amazon, and cost less than the individual ATMEGA 2560 chip on its own.

[Normnet]

Got it...thanks

[Normnet]

For 3 simpler $25 PIC 8 bit plug in modules see Microchip Direct and do a search for PIM and check development tools then 8 bit. Probably not a lot of 8 bit due to they are available in DIP packages for easier prototyping.

[lester]

I think that you are all missing one very important point.

Arduino and the Pi, have brought into our world a whole demographic of new users, ranging from Chefs to gardeners including artists and clothing designers.

the ease of use and the fact that they can reuse code without having to learn has opened the door

I see the downside, but I also think its great that a 60 year old lady gardener not too far from me, has built her own temp and humidity monitor for her green house. Never wrote a line of code, but built it from a Pi and a then looked at Arduino.

we never saw that from PIC basic of any flavor.

its a good thing to bring in new people from new areas. It reflects the real world fact that electronics now penetrates all areas of our lives. It is no longer a niche area for geeks like me , hobbyists and seasoned professionals ( like me also). personally I think its great that we are seeing these new entrants, even though they are learning the ropes Backwards. By that I mean they buy a Pi, they load someone elses code and make a project, then it sparks their interest and they learn a little electronics.

I dont care how they learn, just so long as it sparks interest and they begin on the road to becoming an electronics hobbyist.

Just think about it, she is 60 years old ( maybe older) she knows no electronics, but she is now one of us !

[richard]

Arduino and the Pi, have brought into our world a whole demographic of new users

not to mention a vast array of cheap "Arduino compatible" sensors/modules in a breadboard friendly form, making it easy to hook up something up
to test our wildest ideas with no immediate need for a dedicated pcb and better still there is a easy to tap knowledge base for all of them.

no matter what platform you choose the pi/Arduino movement is a boon for all electronics enthusiasts

[Art]

I’m quite pissed. At least one mod or admin will have to know why, and the commonality of what has gone missing.
Unless you want to be stuck with decade old stuff, different ways of doing things (or knowing what PBP does) are more important than they ever were.
I haven’t needed it myself for a very long time & I won’t be back.

[Ioannis]

So, C it is?

Ioannis

[Scampy]

Out of the blue I receive a notification to this thread, I totally forgot I had still set alerts to this board. Its a shame to see so many of the old members departing (by that I mean long serving rather than age ). But I personally feel that PBBpro missed the boat long ago, and as such people have had no choice but to migrate over to other platforms, be that MikroBASIC, or C, or moving away from PICs altogether and opting for an AVR based platforms in order to keep up with technology.

Some of you may remember (around 10 years ago) that with the help of Darrel (god rest his soul) and Henrik I developed a multi-channel thermostat for my reptiles using PID routines. A few years later I wanted to take it further and use cheap colour TFT screens, and give it more functionality, but to do so with PBP would be hard as there was no native support... PBP only supported 4 x 20 LCDs at the time, and even GLCD's were difficult unless you used 3rd party serial devices between the PIC and the screen, but then it was still mono and limited in fonts and styles.

I migrated over to Arduino for my hobby projects, and soon had a version of the above project ported to an Adriuno mega, using a 320 x 240 TFT with "official" library file (like and include file) that had simple commands like tft.print to write to the screen. Granted my code was clunky and didn't follow traditional C styling, but it worked. I was recently mentored by a chap on the other side of the world who took my code and mentored me whilst we completely re-wrote the code, steering me away form the normal BASIC structure I was still used to. The bottom line is that I have now taken the project to the next level. Its more compact, efficient, and now does 8 channels simultaneously on a device that is running at less than half the clock speed of the PIC I used to use.

If PBP had been developed (either by the owners, contracted Mel, Darrel and others, or went open sourced) to keep pace with technology (I mentioned TFT's but other devices like Ethernet, WiFi, and a host of sensors like GPS, pressure and altitude were lacking) then I probably would have stayed with PBP. I do miss the way the forum functioned, and mostly everyone would fall over backwards to help even with the most basic of issues, but then if the product doesn't keep pace then there is nothing to keep them here.

Art mate, sorry to see you go... good luck in whatever platform you have chosen