Serial over Ethernet module selection
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  1. #1
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    Question Serial over Ethernet module selection

    Hello guys, i've read a lot posts here but most of them are old and the links that i'm looking are dead. I need a module to get my pic connected to internet via ethernet, but i would like to use the pic as a server for a website to upload some data with 10/100Mbits protocol.

    Is this possible with this module : Nano Socket Lan ???
    Or if u like to suggest me anything better
    One man's magic is ANOTHER man's engineering.
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Serial over Ethernet module selection

    Hi,
    I don't have any experience with the module you link to but the product brief says
    Full Internet Controller mode – allowing simple MCU to use the Nano SocketLAN’s rich protocol and application capabilities to perform complex Internet operations such as E-mail, FTP, SSL, embedded web server and others. It also acts as a firewall, providing a security gap between the application and the network.
    And, page 62 in the Programmers Manual:
    iChip includes a web server that handles HTTP 1.0/1.1 web interactions independently of its host processor. It allows system designers to build web-based products, which can be remotely monitored, configured, and managed via the Internet using a standard web browser interface.
    So, if I understand your needs correctly than I'd say it's possible with the ConnectOne Nano Socket Module.

    An alternative, though at a lower level is the W5100/W5200 chip from Wiznet. I've written some code for that, here's the thread.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Serial over Ethernet module selection

    Thank you a lot Henrik, it is not that i didn't read the manuals etc but even i know a lot about the "internet stuff" like pakages,protocolls, speeds etc etc i don't have them clear in my mind and i wanted a more experienced opinion to ensure that this thing will do the hard work !! I'll start working on it and i will make a post with my code and my project so i can help others later.
    One man's magic is ANOTHER man's engineering.
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Serial over Ethernet module selection

    I use the Nano Socket but not as the server. I use it to FTP data to a "real" server and the email function for alerts. One of the reasons I do not use it as a server is it can not be changed from port 80. Many LANs have port 80 blocked or I have to ask the customer to open the port in their firewall, or any port for that matter, which sometimes becomes troublesome. Sending the data to an outside server solves the port problem.
    Dave
    Always wear safety glasses while programming.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Serial over Ethernet module selection

    Clever thing to do mackrackit !
    Thank you for the info, so as it seems ill proceed with Nano Socket. It seems ok for my project, because i want to do data fetching from phone applications and not from any PC that has firewall. So i don't think port 80 will be a problem don't you think??

    Regards, Kostas.
    One man's magic is ANOTHER man's engineering.
    Supernatural is a null word

  6. #6

    Default Re: Serial over Ethernet module selection

    I'm a little confused (as usual). Not that I want to challenge your assertion, Dave, but my experience is that port 80 is often the *only* port open, since pretty much all HTTP browsing goes through it. Then 443 (HTTPS), then the email ones, then FTP and so on. But if I had to design something with a fixed port, it would be 80 because it's basically universally open. Just curious - what classification of customers block port 80? (schools, government, slave labor camps?)

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Serial over Ethernet module selection

    Charlie,

    I will guess you are behind a router at you home, if you are look at the settings. If you have not opened port 80 or any other port for that matter, they should all be closed. There is an exception with some manufactures that mistakenly left a port or two open causing a security risk.

    So

    When you make a request to a sever on a port, 80 or any other, the packets are addressed so the server knows where to send the requested packets back to. Your router will do something called NAT traversal to allow the traffic back through to the correct machine.

    Lets say you set up a sever behind your router / firewall and you want it to receive request from the outside world, you will have to configure your router / firewall to pass that traffic through to the correct machine. Or place the home sever in the router's DMZ, but that is risky as far as security goes.

    Most companies with any IT department worth anything will have every port closed to request from the outside. The one exception we commonly see is the use of a VPN tunnel.
    Dave
    Always wear safety glasses while programming.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Serial over Ethernet module selection

    Hey Dave,

    The thing is that i want to use the pic as a server from withing a company with strict rules. And i want to sent some data from withing to the outside world via their Ethernet. Isn't this possible via port 80 ?? I wont request data from the outside and i wont sent data from the outside to the pic either basically i don't care about incoming data so let them be blocked.

    Am i going to have problem again with port 80 and the router's firewall ??
    One man's magic is ANOTHER man's engineering.
    Supernatural is a null word

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Serial over Ethernet module selection

    You should be ok if communications to the device are from within the LAN. It will be able to send data out as any other device.

    I just brought the port 80 thing up as sometimes we will put a server on say port 8347 and open that up through the fire wall. Sometimes port 80 is already being used or the idea of security by obscurity...
    The Connect One devices will not allow this.
    Dave
    Always wear safety glasses while programming.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Serial over Ethernet module selection

    Dave, I have a pretty good understanding of how routers work. If you want to get to any device from the internet, it needs to be at a publicly routable static address, regardless of the port number. It can not be hidden behind a NAT segment.
    When someone wants to reach that server, however, the router THEY are behind will block OUTGOING requests on ports not specifically opened. Since the vast majority of those requests are on port 80, it's almost universally open. If you put your server on another port, it may be difficult to reach from many locations, unless you create a specific application and use UPNP or something.
    I suppose what you are doing is having the fixed IP source router route a specific port request to a specific internal address and port - clever idea. But if you are doing this, and no other server is hosting anything on this address, why isn't port 80 as good as any other? Or are hosting companies blocking this to prevent people hosting from their homes?
    I really am just curious - most of the things I do in this space are on private networks, and I'd be looking to serve internally only from this sort of device, with no need to access it from beyond the corporate firewall.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Serial over Ethernet module selection

    Thank you Dave and Charlie for your commends !! I'll try to buy a couple of nano socket module and start working as soon as possible !!!


    Best regards, Kostas.
    One man's magic is ANOTHER man's engineering.
    Supernatural is a null word

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Serial over Ethernet module selection

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie View Post
    Dave, I have a pretty good understanding of how routers work. If you want to get to any device from the internet, it needs to be at a publicly routable static address, regardless of the port number. It can not be hidden behind a NAT segment.
    Wrong, I have several servers behind NATs on different ports on different LANs.
    When someone wants to reach that server, however, the router THEY are behind will block OUTGOING requests on ports not specifically opened. Since the vast majority of those requests are on port 80, it's almost universally open. If you put your server on another port, it may be difficult to reach from many locations, unless you create a specific application and use UPNP or something.
    Wrong again. If the device is on a port other than 80 for http request all you have to do is add a ":" then the port number. abc.com:1234
    I suppose what you are doing is having the fixed IP source router route a specific port request to a specific internal address and port - clever idea. But if you are doing this, and no other server is hosting anything on this address, why isn't port 80 as good as any other? Or are hosting companies blocking this to prevent people hosting from their homes?
    Now you are getting it! Yes, a port is a port as far a working, it is more to do with security audits. And yes, some hosting companies block 25, 80, and others.
    I really am just curious - most of the things I do in this space are on private networks, and I'd be looking to serve internally only from this sort of device, with no need to access it from beyond the corporate firewall.
    Then you should not have any problems. Unless you are crossing different sub nets... but that is another story... Contact your IT department if that is the case.
    Dave
    Always wear safety glasses while programming.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Serial over Ethernet module selection

    Quote Originally Posted by mackrackit View Post
    Wrong, I have several servers behind NATs on different ports on different LANs.
    Wrong again. If the device is on a port other than 80 for http request all you have to do is add a ":" then the port number. abc.com:1234
    Now you are getting it! Yes, a port is a port as far a working, it is more to do with security audits. And yes, some hosting companies block 25, 80, and others.
    Then you should not have any problems. Unless you are crossing different sub nets... but that is another story... Contact your IT department if that is the case.
    Dave, I think we've hijacked this thread enough. However, simply saying I'm wrong, then describing a situation different in detail from what I was stating, really isn't helping anyone understand. Routing and security is complex business - we can agree on that. There are many ways to skin a cat. I'm sure yours works for you as well as mine does for me. I was just trying to understand yours and maybe learn a new method. And I work in IT, so calling them (as you've told me twice) means calling myself or one of my colleagues.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Serial over Ethernet module selection

    Dave, I think we've hijacked this thread enough
    sorry,
    from Linux and security classes I took, routers, switches, and other devices with various operating systems....can be set up (in configuration files) regarding security to:
    block all but.....
    allow all but.....
    combinations of both depending on which rule is first or last....
    and I would say port 80 is for web pages served, and having an odd port for other stuff (pic) would be less a security risk since when hackers scan IP's for vulnerabilities, they would try some or more of the "well known assigned ports" (generally 0 to 1000) for access and less likely to try all 65000 since that kind of scan is more detectable to security software......and when several or many devices are installed in a LAN that you want to access from outside, you would naturally use different ports....(even with IPV6 I believe)
    don (2 cents)

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