Bring it to Market, But HOW ?

[Archangel]

Hello Everyone !
I know I am not alone here, in having some (a few) Great Ideas for commercial products. Each and every one of you have at least one. I can think them up, I can usually prototype them, and make them work. At some level I could probably manufacture them. How the heck do you sell an Idea / Product ? Most All of us have had a product idea come and go only to see it on the market later. I am of the firm conviction, that every idea has a "set time" in history and when that time comes it will occur to several / many people. As I understand Patents, unless you are BigCorporateMoney they are just money wasted. I know about non-disclosure agreements but seriously, How do you sell?
I know some of you HAVE done this, repeatedly. Please, hear my cry from the wilderness.
HOW DO YOU DO IT ?

[kellyseye]

Research.

Firstly, have you researched the 'demand' for this item? If it is entirely 'new' to the market (i.e. performs a function previously unheard of) have you distributed it to impartial users for constructive feedback?

If your device passes the above then you have to be brazen enough to go knocking on doors.
Door knocking can be as simple as a letter to interested parties - which will likely be one letter of many that they receive and therefore gets little/no attention or you can use the 'direct' approach.
'Direct' could be anywhere from your local bank (the least likely to help given recent well-advertised attitudes to the public) right up to the Managing Director of the biggest manufacturing company you can find locally - nationally if you're that convinced it's a good idea.
According to various reports, making appointments is perhaps the worst way to go about this and arriving on the doorstep unannounced and being quite insistent about seeing someone may be the required action to take.

The hardest part is being ready to accept rejection. Not all recipients of your device will either understand or appreciate what it is or what it could do or offer unless you are very specific about who you approach. 10's or 100's of rejections doesn't necessarily mean your idea is a dud but you do have to prepare for the fact.

Make your presentation simple, direct, succinct and be prepared to leave a concise package/sample for them to test at their leisure. It's easy enough to protect yourself and your idea by retaining the coding and securing copies of your 'package' with a solicitor or other registered keeper of documents.

TV programs have amply illustrated that the boldest are the most successful. If you don't have the bottle to do 'all of the above' be prepared to show someone who IS and let them act on your behalf.

No-one ever said that success comes easily or cheaply.

[Heckler]

WOW! Kellyseye, For your first post, it was a good one. Welcome to the forum.

I wish I could add to this topic... but I have no experience here.
Your comments, though, seem spot on.

[ronsimpson]

Marketing MARKETING marketing…..I can’t say this enough. Look at what they sale on night time TV.
A really good product and no marketing = 0
I have built too many prototypes just to see the inventor fail to sale the first one.
Several of us have www.stores and might help. I know it is very scary to talk about a new idea. If you could just hint at what field, maybe one of us is in that field and could help.
I consult for several companies. Is your product in the area of blinking LEDs, toys, sporting goods, flashlights, camping gear, bicycles? I know a company that routinely talks to inventers.

[rmteo]

This product was recently launched and appears to be well received. You may get some ideas by taking a look at its website here What is Panel Pilot?

[mackrackit]

http://www.kickstarter.com/
Might be an option.

[Archangel]

I get Ideas. Ideas that run the whole spectrum, from wood working tools, household appliances, really few are electronic, but some are. I do not want to build a manufacturing empire and make MyWidgets and work forever. I want to sell the concept and prototypes and tooling and move on to the NEXT idea. I am 55 and I have already worked 40 years. So when I ask how to sell, I mean sell it all and move on. Let Ron Popeil invent a job for himself, I want to invent one for someone else. Every time someone complains, that is opportunity calling ! Inventing is relatively easy, Finding a need is tougher, selling the solution to someone who wants to work, that's the mystery.
I KNOW, some of you have the magic I seek. I understand the royalty is a very small percent. A very small percent of a whole lot of products makes life very comfortable. I took a seminar with Mike Rounds back in the early 90s (He Co-invented the Teddy Ruxpin Bear) and He said the royalty was on the order of 3 percent.

I will follow the links you guys posted and learn what is there, Thank You.

Please continue to comment, I take suggestions and criticism pretty well, and something you say to me may help me or someone else who reads this thread.
Again, Thank You.
JS

[khoog]

How does the song go?

"Most people just sit on their butts,
They've got the dream but not the guts"

Hate to be the one to burst your bubble, Joe, but ideas and inventions are a dime a dozen. Most successful products don't start out that way (bottom up). They start with a market niche and an existing product with some weaknesses.

If you start with this "top down" approach, you will already know who your customers are and how to sell to them. Only then should you "invent" something.

Unless you have a clear track record of your ideas making other people rich, you're probably better off buying lottery tickets than trying to sell just an idea.

Also, you're wrong about patents. If you have nothing else. a patent gives you some credibility and shows that you are at least somewhat serious about your product.

[Archangel]

How does the song go?

"Most people just sit on their butts,
They've got the dream but not the guts"

Hate to be the one to burst your bubble, Joe, but ideas and inventions are a dime a dozen. Most successful products don't start out that way (bottom up). They start with a market niche and an existing product with some weaknesses.

If you start with this "top down" approach, you will already know who your customers are and how to sell to them. Only then should you "invent" something.

Unless you have a clear track record of your ideas making other people rich, you're probably better off buying lottery tickets than trying to sell just an idea.

Also, you're wrong about patents. If you have nothing else. a patent gives you some credibility and shows that you are at least somewhat serious about your product.

Thank You for your comments,
I agree Ideas are a dime a dozen, I want those dimes !
As for Wrong about patents . . been wrong before, will be again I am sure, I do have some pretty good company on this issue, Including Mr. Ciarca, and Mr. Lancaster, to name 2. Nevertheless, the whole purpose of this thread is to solicit arguments to EVERY position, in order to become better informed, so even though your post does not agree with every opinion of mine, or maybe because it does not agree, I find it valuable. As for bursting my bubble . . . ugh uh, no bubble to burst, this is not a dream, it's research. Thanks again, if you have additional thoughts, please feel free to share them.

[rmteo]

....Unless you have a clear track record of your ideas making other people rich, you're probably better off buying lottery tickets than trying to sell just an idea.

Couldn't agree more more with that statement. People aren't interested in paying or investing money in ideas/designs/inventions. What they want to see is a well researched (and documented) business plan that will give them a clear picture of how/when/how much money (or return) they can get for their investment. Even with a business plan in hand (which involves a lot more than coming up with an idea and getting it to work - I would say that the idea/design/prototype phase accounts for maybe 5-10% of the total), be prepared for a large number of rejections before anyone will bite - if at all. Sounds like you are placing too much faith in the "build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door" concept, Joe.

[cncmachineguy]

Sounds like you are placing too much faith in the "build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door" concept

I think the point of this thread is Joe has no concept - at least not that he has disclosed. This is a concept development thread of sorts. At least thats how I read it.

[rsocor01]

Joe,

I think the better way to get started is with some kind of idea related to an industry that you are already very familiar with. You said that you have worked for 40 years. Let's say for example that you have spent many many years working in the bike industry. Then, building some kind of device that benefits the bikers would be your best bet. Because you have so many years working for this industry you will probably know very important people related to the bike business, and things will be a lot easier for you.

I am sure that if cncmachineguy comes up with a clever idea to use with CNC machines he could make tons of money . Well, you got my idea.

Robert

[rmteo]

I think the point of this thread is Joe has no concept - at least not that he has disclosed. This is a concept development thread of sorts. At least thats how I read it.

Obviously, I do not possess your mind reading capabilities. My comment is based on this statement that Joe made about selling ideas/designs in his original post:

I know I am not alone here, in having some (a few) Great Ideas for commercial products. Each and every one of you have at least one. I can think them up, I can usually prototype them, and make them work. At some level I could probably manufacture them. How the heck do you sell an Idea / Product ?

[cncmachineguy]

Obviously, I do not possess your mind reading capabilities.

Comes from Years of trying with the wife. As you can see, I still don't have it right. neither with her or on the forum.

As for using my machines? I have been working at it for 22 years, still just make parts per customer drawings.

[Archangel]

Hello ! and Thank Each of You for your comments !
I MUST STATE, I opened this thread to solicit comments and ideas, not to start fights, so please, go easy on one another, I can handle any jabs that come my way.
As for having no concept . . . hmmm that depends upon the context it is stated in.

Ok in 2 of my products, 1 has been prototyped, 1 is in design, I have in mind exactly who I might sell or license them too. Is that concept?
Or does Joe has no concept mean I am clueless ? I have a Mechanical Engineer as a Partner of sorts, I currently do work for him in his business. He agrees with khoog RE: patents. I actually see merit to both arguments.
I have experience in manufacturing, automotive, supervision, and know how to move "projects" along. It is selling where I have no experience. I think this area is where the majority of us here in this forum are lacking, but the thing is, NOT Everyone here lacks that experience. And those of you Who Do Have this knowledge would be doing Me / Others Like Me, a great service, if you chime in here.
"Thank You for Your Support"
JS

[cncmachineguy]

Oh My!! I think I have yet again only said part of what I was thinking. First, I have taken nothing as a jab nor ment any.

Joe, I seem to have left the context for "concept" out of my post. I never ment to imply (although I think I did just that) that you have no concept. I ment to say the way I read this thread is you have started it with the hopes of gaining tips and/or knowledge from folks that have already tried one thing or another. As such, my thought was more you have an open mind to how the path my go, depending on feedback from here and also your own expereinces. Therefore no hardfast preconcivied concept.

At any rate, I DO hope I have made myself more clear. No attempt was made on my part to jab at anyone, other then myself in my last post. Cuz how silly of me when I re-read it.

Sorry all

[rmteo]

Joe, exactly what are you trying to sell? Do you have a product line (something that you already have in production and are looking to expand its market) or are you wanting to sell an idea/product design? Sounds to me like it is the latter. As khoog put it very succintly and I quoted in a prior post.

Unless you have a clear track record of your ideas making other people rich, you're probably better off buying lottery tickets than trying to sell just an idea.

[rmteo]

IOW, if you are a Steve Jobs, then people may be willing to put money into your ideas.

Otherwise, if you want to sell a idea/design/product that you dreamed up, here is what you can do. The option that will give you the best chance of success (as far as selling it) is to develop the idea into an on-going business before attempting to sell it. Not matter how great you think your idea is, the only thing that matters to a buyer (who is going to put money up front to buy it) is how much money you have already made from it. For example, say you have a nett profit before tax (and can prove so) of $200,000 in the previous 12 months. An interested party will value it at a multiplier of perhaps 2-5x annual profits. So you might might be able to negotiate anywhere from about $400,000 to $1M for it.

Another possibility (as I mentioned previously) is to develop a comprehensive business plan for your idea/product and try to sell it that way. You will still have to spend anywhere from 10-30 times (in terms of time/resources) of what you have put into design/development/prototyping phase. You can directly approach a potential buyer (extemely low probability of success) or seek venture capital to develop the business. Again, be prepared for many, many rejections. An associate who is in the venture capital industry said that only 1 in several hundred proposals ever gets funded.

[Archangel]

Oh My!! I think I have yet again only said part of what I was thinking. First, I have taken nothing as a jab nor ment any.

Joe, I seem to have left the context for "concept" out of my post. I never ment to imply (although I think I did just that) that you have no concept. I ment to say the way I read this thread is you have started it with the hopes of gaining tips and/or knowledge from folks that have already tried one thing or another. As such, my thought was more you have an open mind to how the path my go, depending on feedback from here and also your own expereinces. Therefore no hardfast preconcivied concept.

At any rate, I DO hope I have made myself more clear. No attempt was made on my part to jab at anyone, other then myself in my last post. Cuz how silly of me when I re-read it.

Sorry all

Hey Bert, I never thought you took a jab at me.
You got to shovel a lot of sand, to get that little bit of color in your pan.
I appreciate every post.

[rayzrocket]

Be open with your ideas.

Sharing your ideas will automatically attract good meaningful (and usually free) help by those who have similar passion to see that idea become reality, and furthermore brought to market.

My past personal experiences have taught me that one must be very carefull and secretive(generate trade secrets) once your product begins to flourish, since that is when the bad-guys come lookin' to steal, cheat, and clobber you.

Maybe you should start an 'Idea Farm' or an 'Incubator' in this forum or at your own website. Many collaborative projects exist out there; actually this forum is one of sorts in itself. Once you have working prototypes, there are many large co's, small companies, investment firms, professors, military brass, and the like that welcome presentations. Many will pay for your trip to visit them or webinar to demonstrate. Plenty have hit it big (relatively speaking).
You should always 'push', don't expect to be 'pulled'.

[rmteo]

Another possibility http://www.licensingexpo.com/

[Demon]

Watch a few episodes of Dragon's Den and observe what the pros look out for in new ideas/inventions.

I noticed the first thing they consider is how fast can they get a return on investment, how big is the market, is there competition, is the idea/concept solid, is the "first impression" about the product positive, does the product already have a customer base, what is the potential growth, does the inventor know what he is talking about, etc.

http://www.cbc.ca/dragonsden/

[Archangel]

Anyone have an idea how much it costs to get U L Approval for an AC Mains powered device ?

[Demon]

Wouldn't it depend on the complexity of the device? A lamp would be easier/cheaper than a professional grade sound mixer?

[Archangel]

Probably to some extent. I do not know what they test for, do they overvoltage, shake and recheck ? I do work for a test lab, they test spacecraft components, I doubt UL does the same kinds of tests they do. My device has just a simple electrical circuit, much less than say a dishwasher does. But if you expect to get business insurance you need UL approval.

[Demon]

I remember Melanie and a few others got into a discussion about this subject. The topic didn't stand out to me 'cause it related to testing European standards. so I couldn't give you a good search string to look for.

You could look under Melanie's profile and see where she posted.

EDIT: This one, http://www.picbasic.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=3490.

[rmteo]

Ok in 2 of my products, 1 has been prototyped, 1 is in design, I have in mind exactly who I might sell or license them too. Is that concept?

JS

How is this coming along?

[Archangel]

Stagnet right now, working to pay for my CNC machine, trying to get my health on track, trying to put my house in order. Product ideas float through several per month, easy products, I just do not want to be a manufacturer, having worked at one as a teen. All I want is to develope, sell, and repeat. It makes little sense for a near 60 Yo man to invent a Job for himself, too little time left, ask Bill Gates, or the author of Harry Potter how to get rich and they might say residual or royalty rights. I would rather take 2% of a million dollars and do it 50 times than try to earn a million on one idea.

[rmteo]

Keep us posted when you close your first 2% of a million dollars deal.

[rmteo]

...Also, you're wrong about patents. If you have nothing else, a patent gives you some credibility and shows that you are at least somewhat serious about your product.

Couldn't agree more. Here my recent patent http://www.freshpatents.com/-dt20101...0100320666.php