Which PBP Compiler are you using?

[Melanie]

I always thought there were heaps more PBP rather than PBC users which is why we rarely saw any PBC questions (let's forget that the PBC slot on this forum wasn't accepting posts until now!). So just to get an idea of who's using the forum, I thought I'd chuck together a poll... feel free to vote accordingly...

PS. You need to Log-In to vote.

[picnaut]

You should include Proton Plus in the poll as there are a number of people in this forum (yourself included) that use both.



Cheers!

[Melanie]

No, I wanted to see the ratio of PBC to PBP users (which I estimated at 1:10), how many had no compiler but were considering and perhaps using CompileSpot, and how many were visitors from other camps. What I really wanted to add was how many here are using Pirated software, but nobody would have answered truthfully anyway so it would have been pointless including. I included myself in the PBP camp because that's what I use - the fact I've other products on the shelf too is of no importance here.

It'll be interesting to see how it pans out across a month or so... but I've a feeling apathy rules.

[Dwayne]

Hello Melanie,

M>>What I really wanted to add was how many here are using Pirated software, but nobody would have answered truthfully anyway so it would have been pointless including. <<

Hey now!! give me a break!... I will answer truthfully!...

I have a completely legal version 2.45 of PBP...and proud of it.


Dwayne <giving Melanie a hard time>

[bartman]

Being new here and always liking to add my two cents I'll say that if I can get past some of the learning curve I'd be starting with PicBasic only because I do not want to spend a bunch of money to complete one project and not evening knowing if I will build other projects in the future.

I wouldn't go looking for a free copy although I do wonder if the free demo copy online would actually work for me since I do not expect very many lines of code to begin with.

Bart

[mister_e]

Bartman
>and not evening knowing if I will build other projects in the future.


You'll se that PIC project are like cigarette... they're addicitive

[bartman]

Great. More habits (or hobbies depending on your point of view). What I really need is to spend less time in front of the computer and more time active. But when you deal with 8 months of winter it's hard to get that motivated.

Bart

[Beavis]

hmmm found mine at a yard sale...go figure on that.....old version, dont remember but then got 2.45 from a friend, figured purchased an old version from yard sale,license transferrable(i think), then got new version(hopefully no upgrade fee, and if there is I will pay it

[mslaney]

PBP.
Sure, it has taken me longer to pay off my credit card than to drive a servo in asm.....but it's worth it!

[Borisw37]

Does anybdoy here use MikroBasic
http://www.mikroelektronika.co.yu/en...asic/index.htm

I still cant decide if i should learn PBP or MB....

[mister_e]

I still cant decide if i should learn PBP or MB....

In the market you have at this time 4 different known Basic Compiler

• 1. Melabs PICBASIC PBC and PRO
  2. MBASIC
  3. Crownhill PROTON
  4. MikroBasic

Wich is the first one? Wich one is the most known ? Wich one will give you wider support ?

MELABS PICBASIC PRO.

MikroBasic and others are certainely good but, IMO still young on the market. If you choose MikroBasic then... we will not be able to give you any kind of support.

[Luciano]

quote: (posted by mister_e)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you choose MikroBasic then... we will not be able to give you any kind of support.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Yes, this forum is about PicBasic Pro and PicBasic. This forum is also a source of inspiration and ideas.
Feel free to implement these ideas using your compiler of choice.


MikroBasic has its own forum:

http://www.mikroelektronika.co.yu/forum/


Best regards,


Luciano

[Borisw37]

Thank you for your input.
I am going to go with PBP. Just like I thought, and you guys proved it, there is just more info out there for PBP. I have participated on MikroBasic forum and the admins there are very nice and very knowledgable, but there are just not enough users out there using Mikro Basic, to have a big forum with plenty of ideas... Mikro Basic is still developing.
I also figured that PBP is not THAT much different from Mikro Basic, so i can always switch, or use both.

[nomada]

Hi all,

I´m using PBP 2.43 - legal.
As soon I can spare some ...Euros I'll buy the 2.45 upgrade.

I'm using also Microcode Plus (legal too) and it realy helps writing and checking the code.

I'm thinking buying the ICD from Microchip, has anyone some useful info about ICD that might influence my decision, any input will be appreciated.

Thanks to all

[mister_e]

HI nomada

As you probably know MicroCode Studio is also provide you some ICD support... I'll assume it do not support the device you want to debug then.

Is your selected device are really different than the ones who are supported by MicroCode Studio?

Can you build your code by using the one who are supportd by MicroCode studio and then use the one you choose first

Is it so important for you to have a ICD?

If so let's go and buy ICD-2 or else by Microchip. Avoid copy by other company who pretend to provide real "clone of Microchip ICD-XXX"

Always remind, Microchip build the PIC, they're the best to know how to debug PIC. The others...

[Tim B]

I have a question regarding ICD2 and Pbpro. Does it let you single step basic code lines or in asm steps.

[bartman]

After a short flirtation with pcb I'll be switching to the pro version next month. I need more power!!

Bart

[nomada]

Hi, mister_e

You are right, Microcode Plus does provide some support for debugging but my doubts (because I do not know much about it) are about how to get MCPlus talking with the device(PIC). I suppose that I need something (serial interface) between the PC and the target board with the PIC.

I usually work with PIC16F876A and sometimes with PIC16F877A
About the importance of using an ICD, at this moment my work mainly deals with projects for automatic vending machines. I've arrived to the PIC arena (and programming) only a year ago and my programming skills are poor.

Sometimes (a lot to be honest) I get stuck in programming problems that I realised that problably if I can "see" how the code/program is flowing it would be more compreensive. Nowadays I can not see myself without an osciloscope to solve hardware problems, so... the reason for an ICD...

If you or anyone else in the forum can point me to threads or "a really" good web site for understanding the real importance and how to put an ICD to work - my one million thanks!

Thank you for your feedback, its important to know that Melabs Forum REALLY WORKS, and thanks to Melanie that start more than a simple pol.

A nice weekend for you all

[mister_e]

Hi nomada,

In microcode studio you have all you need to start. Look in the Help. Under ICD. They provide schematic and a code example as i remind. But you can also see Bruce's website.

http://www.rentron.com/PicBasic/MCS_X3.htm

He also sell MicroCode Studio and many more. A great guy that i recommend to everybody.

[PICMAN]

hey mister any suggestions connecting a Talking Electronics programer to micro studio,, i got every thing set up but my programer, had planned to compile, and open the .hex threw ic prog (sugested software used with te programer) originally i planed to study prouduction ,, but i know standard basic, am ok with basic stamp basic, so pic basic just seems my chosen path,

i tried to find a web page with the programer,,, theyre there but didnt want to post to a purchase page,, any sugestions how to get micro studio to utilize this programer?


if you look for it on the te pages , its multi chip programer, theres only one from them,,
fyi theres a support page for these guys,, with 50 bogus posts, no helpfull info , just asdfds over and over

any critisisim of this programer leading me to a beter choice ( afordable one ) is appreaciated, for instance this only acepts up to 18 pins, i only need that much so far, so geting this to work and having one in mind to upgrade to soon would be prime


thnx for your time,
jim

[mister_e]

One of my favorite website is www.rentron.com

A great match is EPIC
http://www.rentron.com/PicBasic/products/EPIC.htm


or the new SERIAL EPIC.
http://www.rentron.com/PicBasic/prod...erial_EPIC.htm

MicroCodeStudio PLUS
http://www.rentron.com/PicBasic/prod...ode_Studio.htm

Look to the Bruce's websie for some "starter bundle"

OR you can also visit
www.mecanique.co.uk
www.melabs.com

I heard good comments on this EPIC. This is not the one i have but since many years he's on the market and he's still on... must mean something. I'll always consider that you get for what you pay for. Better are your tools, better are your chance to have succes and life time support.

[PICMAN]

indeed i use micro studio,, just not plus,

any feed back from users of either programer listed?>

[nomada]

Sorry all and specially mister_e...

For not responding to your sugestion of cheching under MCS help file about ICD but as 12000 people in my small country I also catch Influenza that puts me to bed.

I returned to work today and designed a small pcb to implement the ICD interface and I suppose I can start experimenting with it tomorrow.

Once again thanks a lot for your patience and guidance.

Regards,

[nomada]

Hi mister_e

Today I've tried the ICd of MCSplus ... and it worked!

However initialy I found myself in troubles because I've followed the MCSplus help file schematic and it didn't worked, for some reason in their shematic they have pin9 of max232 conected trough a 100Ohm resistor...
... then I decided to implement RENTRON shematic and it worked at first attempt (they had pin9 completely free), the information provided by ICD is very complete and helps a lot to understand some tricky parts of PBP code.

The message reported by MCSplus ICD with the first schematic implemeted tells that it couldn't establish a connection.

Rentron has a very good web site!

Thank you very much for your help

[Bruce]

The schematic shown in the MCS Plus help file uses the DB-9 pin #4 which is DTR. It may look like pin #9, but it's actually pin #4 if you look closer.

The MCS boot-loader program toggles the PC DTR output which resets the PIC via the /MCLR connection for boot-loading.

Using this particular setup with the MCS boot-loader allows "hands-free", single-click, compile & program. I.E. there's no need to press a reset switch on your development board or circuit each time you boot-load.

All the MCS ICD requires is the hardware USART interface to RX/TX. Pin #4 from DTR to /MCLR is just an auto reset circuit. Not necessary, but very handy.

[picnaut]

In the market you have at this time 4 different known Basic Compiler

• 1. Melabs PICBASIC PBC and PRO
  2. MBASIC
  3. Crownhill PROTON
  4. MikroBasic

Wich is the first one? Wich one is the most known ? Wich one will give you wider support ?

MELABS PICBASIC PRO.

MikroBasic and others are certainely good but, IMO still young on the market. If you choose MikroBasic then... we will not be able to give you any kind of support.

It is interesting to note that most of the people in the Proton forum are (or at least were) PICBasic Pro users. Another interesting thing to note is that the guy who writes the Proton compiler is the same guy who wrote "Experimenting With PICBasic Pro".

I have no beef with PBP at all. It's a great compiler. It's just that the PDS (Proton Development Suite) is everything that PBP is and more. They're constantly in a state of development. I read some of the posts in this forum, regarding how to do this or that, and then I find that Proton already has a command that takes care of it. In my humble opinion, if you can't afford both, you should go with Proton. Now, to be fair, I think the reason that PBP seems to have become a "dead language" (no sharp objects please) is because of the problem of software piracy. What's the point of putting in all of this effort if only a handful of people pay for it and everybody else steals it. Why bother? Crownhill has taken the step of requiring a USB dongle to compile your code. This is a bit of a pain and a bit stressfull (what if you lose the dongle?), but in the long run I think this actually will protect their profits. More profits means more incentive to continue developing the product, and I'm willing to put up with a bit of an inconvenience for the sake of innovation. I'm sure that somebody, if they took the time, could figure out how to defeat the dongle. But any engineer with this kind of talent probably wouldn't stoop to being a thief (at least I'd like to think so).

Anyway, PIC on everyone. I still come to this site for ideas now and then, but I have moved on to PDS and honestly doubt I'll be dragging out my PBP compiler any time soon.

Cheers.

[Melanie]

There are two kinds of people... those who can and those who can't.

Those who can, do. That leaves the other group...

Those who can't have three options. Learn how, migrate to something easier, or give up.

If only people just bothered to "Learn How".

Why bother to have math lessons in school when you can just go out and buy a pocket calculator - it's easier?

Why bother to learn how to spell, when every computer has a spellchecker - it's easier?

If you can't drive a car, then you can use a Bus instead. But once you've learnt how to drive that car, you'll never want to take a Bus again - and if you never learn, then you'll never know what you're missing.

Finally...

...They're constantly in a state of development...

That is the most dangerous statement I've ever seen written.

[picnaut]

Hi Melanie,

In regards to your comment regarding development:

That is the most dangerous statement I've ever seen written.

If by "development" you mean "constantly releasing features before they are sufficiently tested" then I whole-heartedly agree with you.

I don't believe that this is the case with Proton.

Listen, all I was really getting at is that if you are deciding to buy one or the other, and you can't afford both, buy Proton. If one already has PBP and can't afford both, that's totally fine. All the work arounds are there on this forum and on the mailing list. Anyone with PBP should be able to do anything that someone with Proton can do, without a doubt.

I just think that Proton is a better product than PBP. That may not have been the case a few years ago, or even a year ago, but since the release of PDS, I believe that it has surpassed PBP.

Also, I agree with you that people should get off their butts and figure out how things work. I programmed in assembly before I moved to PBP. I still do for some code. I think that everybody should actually start that way first. It gives you a better understanding of PICs and a better appreciation for what the compiler is doing for you. It bothers me when people ask silly questions that could be answered in about 5 minutes of reading the datasheet. So, if people are whining because they're too lazy to learn, then not only should they stick with PBP, they should be forced by law (nudge nudge, wink wink) to abandon all high-level compilers for 6 months from the date of this post and program exclusively in assembly.

Now, the other side of the coin. I know if I programmed in assembly that I could achieve pretty much anything I could with PBP or Proton. It would be tedious. It would be time consuming. But I know I could do it. Then, 3 months after I finished it I would go back into my code to change something and...what the hell? I'd have to worm my brain back into what the code is doing (even well commented assembly). Why torture myself with this? PBP can take this headache from me so that I can be more productive. Proton can remove even more of the headache. This is my point. You are a very capable programmer Melanie. You could have done everything in assembly but you chose PBP to make yourself more productive. I chose PBP for the same reason and now I've chosen Proton. It's not the same quantum leap that PBP is to assembly, but, for the price, it's worth it.

Anyway, that's my opinion.

Cheers.

[Bruce]

Compilers are just tools. I use several. CCS C, Hi-Tech C, PBP, Proton+, and a good mix of assembly where needed.

There are indeed many differences between them all, and one will *always* provide some nifty feature/s that the other doesn't. Unfortunately, there are no Swiss Army Knife compilers out there that will handle every single application. If there is one, then please send me the URL to the manufacturers website...;o]

I also have more than one screwdriver in my toolbox. My favorite is the Makita cordless. It's an excellent tool, but it really makes a mess trying to tighten the screws in my glasses.

I haven't tossed my Craftsman screwdrivers because the Makita cordless is my favorite or has features they don't. And it's a good bet that I'll not visit the Craftsman web forum stating Craftsman is a dead tool because Makita does everything & more my Craftsman screwdriver doesn't - or I honestly doubt I'll be dragging out my Craftsman screwdrivers any time soon.

That's because I would consider it bad taste to do so - and know I'll be dragging out my other screwdrivers depending on which one is best suited for the task.

And yes, I realize that not everyone can afford to buy more than a single tool, but that's why manufacturers place demo versions on websites for download & evaluation. What works best for one person may not always be the best for another. Applications of the tool will vary like the wind - so download whatever demos you can find, and evaluate the tool based on your own specific needs, abilities, budget, language, IDE, etc, etc,.

If the day ever comes where a single tool will do everything my "collection of tools will do", then I'll definitely use it exclusively.

[picnaut]

Hi Bruce,

I agree with you about tools.
I've actually been quite interested in possibly buying the Hitech C-compiler.
Mainly because it supports dsPICs and PBP/Proton do not (and probably never will). So, on that point, I whole heartedly agree with you.

However, my argument is not about apples and oranges, it's just about apples.
About the only thing that you can do with PICBasic Pro that you can't do with Proton is create bit arrays. However, there are many things that you can do with Proton's command set that you cannot do with PICBasic Pro. Proton is simply a better apple. That's all I'm saying.

Cheers.

[Bruce]

buying the Hitech C-compiler

I want the new PICC Enterprise Edition. Just have to wait until I pick the right lotto ticket....;o]

[Acetronics2]

Hi Bruce,
About the only thing that you can do with PICBasic Pro that you can't do with Proton is create bit arrays. However, there are many things that you can do with Proton's command set that you cannot do with PICBasic Pro. Proton is simply a better apple. That's all I'm saying.

Cheers.

Hi, Picnaut

I do not know anything impossible to do with PBP ... as it offers open libraries, you can add the function you want, working as you want ...

But with a little effort ... I agree.

Alain

[mytekcontrols]

A little over a year ago I embarked on a mission to design a new video/expansion/carrier board for the BASIC Stamp 2. I chose a PIC18F252 as the main processor to handle all the communications with the Stamp. Even though I had been utilizing PIC assembly code for many of my projects over the last 12 years, I decided to take an entirely new approach, and use a higher level compiler to hopefully ease my development cycle. Not feeling particularly comfortable with C (not that it isn't a good language, but not in my comfort zone) I decided to give PicBasic Pro a try. Coupling this with Microcode Studio's IDE gave me what I was looking for, and I haven't been at all disappointed (well... it would be nice if it was an optimizing compiler, and I really wish it had better string handling capabilities).

Although the current project is still in process, it is now nearing completion. Something I probably couldn't say if I had been trying to do it entirely in assembly. Not to say that there isn't some assembly code in my source, but it has only been necessary for the interrupt routines, which in my case needed to be very fast. The nice thing is that PicBasic makes adding these interrupt routines, and sharing variables, a relatively easy process. I also liked the fact that both low-level and high-level interrupt support was provided. And last but not least, I have had no lock-ups or ugly blue screens of death appear to ruin my day. The Microcode Studio/PicBasic Pro combination has been an extremely reliable programming tool.

Bottomline, if I had it to do all over again, I would change nothing.

[picnaut]

Coupling this with Microcode Studio's IDE gave me what I was looking for, and I haven't been at all disappointed (well... it would be nice if it was an optimizing compiler, and I really wish it had better string handling capabilities).

Have you taken a look at PDS (the Proton Development Suite)?
It's put out by Crownhill (the same guys that run this forum).

It IS an optimizing compiler, handles strings well (at least on the 18F series) and it's IDE is made my Mecanique (the guys who gave you Microcode Studio).

A lot of the people using PDS are former PBP users. PBP was great for getting me into embedded programming again (used assembly before) but I've outgrown it (no sharp objects everybody).

Try their PDS Lite and check it out.

I haven't looked back (except that now I need to program in C for using dsPICs - yikes!).

Cheers!

[crematory]

Hello goes to each one

Hey guys, fellows, dadies, mamies, boys, and girls. What is this, you better shut this crap down.

As Bruce said, these compilers are just tools, I thought I will never use PICs, simply because I hated assembly in the earlier university days, especially that one for 8085, although I was the first in my class when it came to such subjects, I don't know, may be other students were in to girls more than studying !!

Any way, on my last graduate year, PICs were my 1st option when it came to my graduation project, so, I learned assembly, wrote lots of good codes, so what, I had no time to work on my graduation project if I want to use assembly, simply because its a time burning language.

Thank god guys, our project was based on team work, so I told my friends that if we stick with assembly, then our project will finish on the next year, so I started surfing the net, here and there, I found lots of documetaion on PICBasic Pro, so, I saved, borrowed, and won money to buy PICBasic Pro.

Hey guys I think you missed some thing here, when some good guys come here and say that they were PICBasic Pro users and now they are PDS users. Now think aboout it that way:

When a begginer in PICs looks for some thinng easy, nice, and to which a lot of documetation is dedicated, he will see that PICBasic Pro, is the man, there are lots of books, webs, and good people on many forums using PICBasic Pro, and the most important, they are willing to help each other, as the case is, here.

After they get started with PICs, and they write all codes they had in mind for PICs, and all their dreams become true, here is what happens:

While someone of us is writing a code for his lovely PIC MCU, he may need some features that are not available in PICBasic Pro, so, he quickly starts surfing the net, looking for a complier "TOOL" that supports his requirements, of course, the first compiler to collide with, is simply PICBasic Plus "PDS".

There is nothing wrong with that. Hey people, If you remember the reason for buying PICBasic Pro, the you will certainly know the reason why some previous PICBasic Pro users went to PDS, SIMPLY, increasing productivity, and development time saving issues. As if life clip repeats it self here. We ran away from assembly to PICBasic Pro, then when PICBasic Pro could not manage to do some thing PDS could, we ran away to PDS !!

This is the essence of problem, if we find some tool that save us brain tackling nuisance, we directly go for it, and forget that we were supposed to use assembly at the first place !!

So guys, cut this crap, instead of talking about this one is better, and this one is much better, you better start writing your own code for your projects whether you are a PBP or PDS user, doesn't matter. Melanie has taught me an important lesson, which is to get the project done, no matter how, just get the project done, whether you have to use a single command in PDS, or a complete page in PBP to drive a GLCD, the result is, you got your GLCD working, with the same code size, but by taking different highways, and brain tackling nuisance being nice when you finish

I don't know when the ghost of PICBasic Pro and PDS war vanishes, any way, no need for that in essence. What is the point coming her saying this one is ugly, bad, and good....

Have a nice ICDing

[Acetronics2]

Hi Crematory ...

a very long time ago, I read somewhere :

"The very best tool is the one you know the best"

... The only question is : are you ready to really learn it ???

Alain

[crematory]

Hello Acetronics

I have already done that, I really learned it .....

[Acetronics2]

One of the main problems of our civilisation is that marketing made you believe if you own the tool you can do ...
Big, big error ... you just can paste ...like with a computer !!!

Alain

[Melanie]

> marketing made you believe if you own the tool you can do ...

Marketing? And I thought 'tools' was a 'male' thing... or am I posting on the wrong forum again?

Seriously though... there's a deep satisfaction from making something work that on the face of it, at first glance, seems impossible with available resources (like floats, or trig or I2Cslave or whatever with PBP). And knowing it's all your own work just makes it so much more satisfying... not exactly orgasmic, but still satisfying...

I've always advocated "Stop moaning and start thinking". On the first day that I joined the Company I work for, my boss said to me "Don't come to me with a problem unless you have a solution". Wise words.

[crematory]

Hey Melanie

> my boss said to me "Don't come to me with a problem unless you have a solution". Wise words.

I think you never ask your boss to help you with a problem !!

> "Tool"male

Low morals melanie !? Stop mocking please