Converting milliseconds to frequency

**chips123** · - 31st August 2007, 22:22

I have code written to measure the time period of a square waveform using pulsin . I measure the low time and the high time and add them together and send it to an LCD. It is quite accurate (comparing to scope) and the refresh time is fast as the frequency varies. Knowing that frequency is 1/time, how can one go about doing the math in PBP to calculate the frequency of this waveform? Thanks.

This is either very easy or a bigger problem than it seems.

Here is the main loop: I found that I needed to do the 4/5ths thing to get the time more accurate.

loop: pulsin PORTA.1,0,x
x = x / 100

pulsin PORTA.1,1,y
y = y / 100

z = x + y
z = z * 4
z = z / 5

LCDOUT $fe, $C0
LCDOUT " "
LCDOUT $fe, $C0
LCDOUT #z

Goto loop

**Kamikaze47** · - 3rd September 2007, 19:44

i may be able to help, but ive got a few questions:

is the variable z a byte or a word?
what is the unit of z? *edit* Cancel that question... Just read the thread topic

what resolution is required? i.e. whats the smallest change in frequency that you would need to detect?
what is the highest and lowest frequency you need to detect?

**chips123** · - 3rd September 2007, 21:45

Thanks for the reply.

I made all variables words to give myself plenty of room, at least for now.
Ultimately, I want to get to pulses per minute, ie. RPMs with a range from maybe 240 RPM (4 cycles per sec) to maybe 4000 or 5000 (66 Hz to 85 Hz), give or take. I am flexible to a point. As far as resolution goes, something like 100 RPM increments (~2 Hz ?). Make any sense?

**weirdjim** · - 3rd September 2007, 21:49

Frequency is the reciprocal of time. For example, if you measure your square wave as 16.66...milliseconds, you have a 60 Hz. frequency.

Now, dependent on whether your milliseconds are floating point (many decimal places), you can measure frequency with concomitant resolution. That is, if time is an integer and you only have choices of 16 or 17 milliseconds, the frequency comes out 62 Hz. or 58 Hz. respectively while the actual waveform is 60 Hz..

Jim

**chips123** · - 3rd September 2007, 22:14

With my millisecond values are integers, I don't expect 100% accuracy. Using PBP, how do I get from say, 16mS to 62Hz ?

Scott

**Kamikaze47** · - 3rd September 2007, 22:21

You can write a subroutine to determine the RPM from the z value. If to the nearest 100rpm is acceptable, this is the relevant data:

Code:

z           rpm
-------------------------
<10         out of limits
10          6000
11          5500
12          5000
13          4600
14          4300
15          4000
16          3800
17          3500
18          3300
19          3200
20          3000
21          2900
22          2700
23          2600
24          2500
25          2400
26          2300
27          2200
28-29       2100
30          2000
31-32       1900
33-34       1800
35-36	    1700
37-38	    1600
39-41	    1500
42-44	    1400
45-48	    1300
49-52	    1200
53-57	    1100
58-63	    1000
64-70	    900
71-80       800
81-92       700
93-109      600
110-133     500
134-171     400
172-240     300
241-400     200
401-1200    100
>12000      out of limits

If you need help on how to write a subroutine to do this then let me know and i can help you out.

**chips123** · - 3rd September 2007, 22:32

I am a bit of a rookie. Some direction would be much appreciated.

**Kamikaze47** · - 3rd September 2007, 22:33

I had a few spare mins so i wrote up a subroutine that would work. Im sure its not the most elegant piece of code, but it will do what you want just fine.

It will take the z value and store a relavant value into rpm. The value in rpm will be in hundreds of rpms. So if you write the value of the variable rpm to your lcd, followed by "00" it will display in rpms.

If rpm=0 after the subroutine has run then the input was out of range.

Code:

convert_to_rpm:
IF z<10 THEN rpm=0
IF z=10 THEN rpm=60
IF z=11 THEN rpm=55
IF z=12 THEN rpm=50
IF z=13 THEN rpm=46
IF z=14 THEN rpm=43
IF z=15 THEN rpm=40
IF z=16 THEN rpm=38
IF z=17 THEN rpm=35
IF z=18 THEN rpm=33
IF z=19 THEN rpm=32
IF z=20 THEN rpm=30
IF z=21 THEN rpm=29
IF z=22 THEN rpm=27
IF z=23 THEN rpm=26
IF z=24 THEN rpm=25
IF z=25 THEN rpm=24
IF z=26 THEN rpm=23
IF z=27 THEN rpm=22
IF z>27 AND z<30 THEN rpm=21
IF z=30 THEN rpm=20
IF z>30 AND z<33 THEN rpm=19
IF z>32 AND z<35 THEN rpm=18
IF z>34 AND z<37 THEN rpm=17
IF z>36 AND z<39 THEN rpm=16
IF z>38 AND z<42 THEN rpm=15
IF z>41 AND z<45 THEN rpm=14
IF z>44 AND z<49 THEN rpm=13
IF z>48 AND z<53 THEN rpm=12
IF z>52 AND z<58 THEN rpm=11
IF z>57 AND z<64 THEN rpm=10
IF z>63 AND z<71 THEN rpm=9
IF z>70 AND z<81 THEN rpm=8
IF z>80 AND z<93 THEN rpm=7
IF z>92 AND z<110 THEN rpm=6
IF z>109 AND z<134 THEN rpm=5
IF z>133 AND z<172 THEN rpm=4
IF z>171 AND z<241 THEN rpm=3
IF z>240 AND z<401 THEN rpm=2
IF z>400 AND z<1201 THEN rpm=1
IF z>1200 then rpm=0
return

**chips123** · - 3rd September 2007, 22:39

Thanks. A bunch of if-thens came to my mind as well. I just was not sure about it. I think I'll try it.

**Kamikaze47** · - 3rd September 2007, 22:44

Let us know how it goes

**Andy Wood** · - 4th September 2007, 04:09

Originally Posted by chips123

With my millisecond values are integers, I don't expect 100% accuracy. Using PBP, how do I get from say, 16mS to 62Hz ?

Scott

Time and Frequency are reciprocal, so you can use a constant (in this case 1000) and divide you mS value into it. For example:

1000 / 16mS = 62Hz.

Or if you had 40mS -

1000 / 40mS = 25Hz etc.

You are probably kicking yourself right about now

Regards,

Andy

**Kamikaze47** · - 4th September 2007, 07:38

That would work, but that kind of division in PBP would take up a lot more processing time than the IF...THEN statements above.

**RussMartin** · - 5th September 2007, 01:21

I may not be understanding something here.

For the basic math, I would have said:

rpm=60000/z

where z is in milliseconds.

That would work, but that kind of division in PBP would take up a lot more processing time than the IF...THEN statements above.

My question is: Why would doing that single division take longer than going through multiple IF...THEN statements (40-something of them in the example) until one is found where the condition is satisfied?

Thanks to whomever clarifies this for me!

**chips123** · - 5th September 2007, 02:22

Thanks Andy.....kick, kick, kick...
And Russ...equally good insight. I'll kick myself once for you too.
Almost too obvious, I have been away from math for too long.

Kamikaze...I tried your solution and ran into an exceeded address 3fff, if I remember correctly. I got sidetracked and have not investigated that further yet.

Appreciate the input.
Scott

**GrandPa** · - 5th September 2007, 03:44

All this thread bring back a question that I had in mind for a while. I was wondering at which point is that better (faster) to use lookup instead of calculated values?

I know that I can find thread like "Sine wave power inverter" where a lookup table was used to increase calculation's speed. But is this only a trial an error process or can someone bring up guidelines that will lead to use one solution or the other?

J-P

**Archangel** · - 5th September 2007, 05:48

One more thought . . . instead of 40 IF THEN loops would't SELECT CASE be more appropriate? I throw this out there, having NEVER used select case, because you see, I want to learn too . . .

**RussMartin** · - 5th September 2007, 19:37

That would work, but that kind of division in PBP would take up a lot more processing time than the IF...THEN statements above.

My question is: Why would doing that single division take longer than going through multiple IF...THEN statements (40-something of them in the example) until one is found where the condition is satisfied?

Thanks to whomever clarifies this for me!

I'm sure that SELECT CASE could be used, or LOOKDOWN (or should it be LOOKUP?), depending on the strategy, and maybe more effectively than IF...THENs. In all of those cases, though, it still looks like a bulky approach. I'm still not convinced that the single 16-bit division isn't going to be not only simpler but faster.

Any thoughts? Is this one of those balancing acts between compact code and speed of operation?

Scott, how often do you need to update the display with new information?

**mackrackit** · - 5th September 2007, 20:16

Here is all the IF/THENS in ASM

Code:

	LABEL?L	_convert_to_rpm	

	CMPGE?BCL	_z, 00Ah, L00001
	MOVE?CB	000h, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00001	

	CMPNE?BCL	_z, 00Ah, L00003
	MOVE?CB	03Ch, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00003	

	CMPNE?BCL	_z, 00Bh, L00005
	MOVE?CB	037h, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00005	

	CMPNE?BCL	_z, 00Ch, L00007
	MOVE?CB	032h, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00007	

	CMPNE?BCL	_z, 00Dh, L00009
	MOVE?CB	02Eh, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00009	

	CMPNE?BCL	_z, 00Eh, L00011
	MOVE?CB	02Bh, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00011	

	CMPNE?BCL	_z, 00Fh, L00013
	MOVE?CB	028h, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00013	

	CMPNE?BCL	_z, 010h, L00015
	MOVE?CB	026h, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00015	

	CMPNE?BCL	_z, 011h, L00017
	MOVE?CB	023h, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00017	

	CMPNE?BCL	_z, 012h, L00019
	MOVE?CB	021h, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00019	

	CMPNE?BCL	_z, 013h, L00021
	MOVE?CB	020h, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00021	

	CMPNE?BCL	_z, 014h, L00023
	MOVE?CB	01Eh, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00023	

	CMPNE?BCL	_z, 015h, L00025
	MOVE?CB	01Dh, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00025	

	CMPNE?BCL	_z, 016h, L00027
	MOVE?CB	01Bh, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00027	

	CMPNE?BCL	_z, 017h, L00029
	MOVE?CB	01Ah, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00029	

	CMPNE?BCL	_z, 018h, L00031
	MOVE?CB	019h, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00031	

	CMPNE?BCL	_z, 019h, L00033
	MOVE?CB	018h, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00033	

	CMPNE?BCL	_z, 01Ah, L00035
	MOVE?CB	017h, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00035	

	CMPNE?BCL	_z, 01Bh, L00037
	MOVE?CB	016h, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00037	

	CMPGT?BCB	_z, 01Bh, T1
	CMPLT?BCB	_z, 01Eh, T2
	LAND?BBW	T1, T2, T2
	CMPF?WL	T2, L00039
	MOVE?CB	015h, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00039	

	CMPNE?BCL	_z, 01Eh, L00041
	MOVE?CB	014h, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00041	

	CMPGT?BCB	_z, 01Eh, T1
	CMPLT?BCB	_z, 021h, T2
	LAND?BBW	T1, T2, T2
	CMPF?WL	T2, L00043
	MOVE?CB	013h, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00043	

	CMPGT?BCB	_z, 020h, T1
	CMPLT?BCB	_z, 023h, T2
	LAND?BBW	T1, T2, T2
	CMPF?WL	T2, L00045
	MOVE?CB	012h, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00045	

	CMPGT?BCB	_z, 022h, T1
	CMPLT?BCB	_z, 025h, T2
	LAND?BBW	T1, T2, T2
	CMPF?WL	T2, L00047
	MOVE?CB	011h, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00047	

	CMPGT?BCB	_z, 024h, T1
	CMPLT?BCB	_z, 027h, T2
	LAND?BBW	T1, T2, T2
	CMPF?WL	T2, L00049
	MOVE?CB	010h, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00049	

	CMPGT?BCB	_z, 026h, T1
	CMPLT?BCB	_z, 02Ah, T2
	LAND?BBW	T1, T2, T2
	CMPF?WL	T2, L00051
	MOVE?CB	00Fh, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00051	

	CMPGT?BCB	_z, 029h, T1
	CMPLT?BCB	_z, 02Dh, T2
	LAND?BBW	T1, T2, T2
	CMPF?WL	T2, L00053
	MOVE?CB	00Eh, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00053	

	CMPGT?BCB	_z, 02Ch, T1
	CMPLT?BCB	_z, 031h, T2
	LAND?BBW	T1, T2, T2
	CMPF?WL	T2, L00055
	MOVE?CB	00Dh, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00055	

	CMPGT?BCB	_z, 030h, T1
	CMPLT?BCB	_z, 035h, T2
	LAND?BBW	T1, T2, T2
	CMPF?WL	T2, L00057
	MOVE?CB	00Ch, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00057	

	CMPGT?BCB	_z, 034h, T1
	CMPLT?BCB	_z, 03Ah, T2
	LAND?BBW	T1, T2, T2
	CMPF?WL	T2, L00059
	MOVE?CB	00Bh, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00059	

	CMPGT?BCB	_z, 039h, T1
	CMPLT?BCB	_z, 040h, T2
	LAND?BBW	T1, T2, T2
	CMPF?WL	T2, L00061
	MOVE?CB	00Ah, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00061	

	CMPGT?BCB	_z, 03Fh, T1
	CMPLT?BCB	_z, 047h, T2
	LAND?BBW	T1, T2, T2
	CMPF?WL	T2, L00063
	MOVE?CB	009h, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00063	

	CMPGT?BCB	_z, 046h, T1
	CMPLT?BCB	_z, 051h, T2
	LAND?BBW	T1, T2, T2
	CMPF?WL	T2, L00065
	MOVE?CB	008h, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00065	

	CMPGT?BCB	_z, 050h, T1
	CMPLT?BCB	_z, 05Dh, T2
	LAND?BBW	T1, T2, T2
	CMPF?WL	T2, L00067
	MOVE?CB	007h, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00067	

	CMPGT?BCB	_z, 05Ch, T1
	CMPLT?BCB	_z, 06Eh, T2
	LAND?BBW	T1, T2, T2
	CMPF?WL	T2, L00069
	MOVE?CB	006h, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00069	

	CMPGT?BCB	_z, 06Dh, T1
	CMPLT?BCB	_z, 086h, T2
	LAND?BBW	T1, T2, T2
	CMPF?WL	T2, L00071
	MOVE?CB	005h, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00071	

	CMPGT?BCB	_z, 085h, T1
	CMPLT?BCB	_z, 0ACh, T2
	LAND?BBW	T1, T2, T2
	CMPF?WL	T2, L00073
	MOVE?CB	004h, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00073	

	CMPGT?BCB	_z, 0ABh, T1
	CMPLT?BCB	_z, 0F1h, T2
	LAND?BBW	T1, T2, T2
	CMPF?WL	T2, L00075
	MOVE?CB	003h, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00075	

	CMPGT?BCB	_z, 0F0h, T1
	CMPLT?BCB	_z, 00191h, T2
	LAND?BBW	T1, T2, T2
	CMPF?WL	T2, L00077
	MOVE?CB	002h, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00077	

	CMPGT?BCB	_z, 00190h, T1
	CMPLT?BCB	_z, 004B1h, T2
	LAND?BBW	T1, T2, T2

	CMPF?WL	T2, L00079
	MOVE?CB	001h, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00079	

	CMPLE?BCL	_z, 004B0h, L00081
	MOVE?CB	000h, _rpm
	LABEL?L	L00081	

	GOTO?L	_convert_to_rpm

And here is the WORD division in ASM.

Code:

	LABEL?L	_TEST	

	MOVE?CW	003E8h, _FREQ

	MOVE?CW	010h, _SPEED

	DIV?WWW	_FREQ, _SPEED, _ROTATIONS

	GOTO?L	_TEST

Do not know about CASE either.

**RussMartin** · - 5th September 2007, 22:22

Thanks, Dave! That was a lot of extra effort to answer the question, but I appreciate it. I'm sure others will, too!

Scott--what do you think?

**mackrackit** · - 5th September 2007, 22:43

No problem, PBP did all of the work.

**chips123** · - 6th September 2007, 01:37

Russ...The 60000 math thing worked great. The digits changing on the LCD actually looks quite natural and "smooth". It doesn't look jerky. It is faster that you can read.

I applied all of this to another project where I am driving a stepper motor as a position indicator, ie. a needle on a scale. I am quite satisfied with it.

The only issue I see with my current calculations is that a change in a millisecond at the high end of the scale represents a larger change in RPM than a millisecond does at the lower speeds. This makes the needle seem a bit twitchy at the higher speeds. I plan to see what I can do to improve that somewhat.

I initially attempted this project using COUNT . It worked, but moving the needle was painfully slow.

Thanks for all the input
Scott

**RussMartin** · - 6th September 2007, 04:52

Scott--Can you give us a better idea of the position indicator circuit and approach? Maybe we can come up with a way to damp the flutter.

**Jumper** · - 6th September 2007, 11:04

Hi,

What frequency do you run the PIC on? The faster you run it the more resolution you will get. My experience with Pulsin has been between great and failure and in the end I usually end up having to write my own code using a Timer. Timers are not that difficult to use and if you have a built in HPWM with capture and compare function it is not that bad at all :-)

If you don't have that Darryl's instant interupts can be used for this as well. Especially together with external interupt sources. or a simple if-then loop or wend or whatever loop is also ok.....

With a high ocs frequency and a timer you can get even parts of ms. 40 MHz would give you 0.1 ms in resolution. It would of course overflow the timer on low rpm's but then we just check for that and if it happens change the prescaler and try again... or we first do a Pulsin (same as now) to get the basic settings and then we do a new measurement right after using the best possible prescaler and a 16-bit timer to get a great value.

You said you wanted the FQ right? Do the measurement with a timer over a longer time (i.e 16 periods (the ccp can be set up to capture several periods by itself)). Then you will get an even better resolution, the more periods you measure over the better it will be. I guess the stuff you are measuring dont change rpms that crazy fast either. What is spinning?

/me

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Converting milliseconds to frequency

Then, when should we use lookup ???

What PIC and osc fq?

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