This one is for Melanie if you have time.

**Sphere** · - 17th February 2007, 16:37

Im trying to get a prototype membrane keypad made 86x99mm with 8 buttons plus an lcd window. I’ve e-mailed quite a few companies on the web, but ive only had one reply. They quoted me £1000 pounds for two prototypes plus tooling. You may say that this is cheap, but for someone starting off its a little bit steep for a device that might not sell. I’ve e-mailed other companies who say no tooling required for prototypes, but no reply from any. So I thought you being in the trade that you might no of a company in the UK that can do this for me. No need to reply if you to busy.

Sphere..

**Luciano** · - 17th February 2007, 17:00

Hi,

Did you try here?
http://www.customkeypads.co.uk

Best regards,

Luciano

**Sphere** · - 17th February 2007, 17:05

Yes I did and they where the only one to reply.

Sphere.

**Melanie** · - 17th February 2007, 17:45

First, ask yourself "do I actually NEED a MEMBRANE keypad or can I get away with another more intuitive solution?".

Here's an example picture of 3 Buttons, LED, IR Receiver plus LCD done as a prototype 'on the cheap'. It looks like a membrane but it isn't. It's actually all standard PCB mounted with the LED and Buttons mounted on the reverse side of the thru-hole-plated PCB.

If it's prototyping or a small production run, then membrane is not the way to go unless you've got a budget (preferably with someone elses money). Once you're sure, then you can go that route, but once you've discovered how inexpensively you can make things using standard PCB's (eg in bulk the switches are like UK 3.5p/US 7 cents each!!!) you may not want the membrane route. Really, that's only a mass-production consideration.

**Sphere** · - 17th February 2007, 18:10

Im building this with the possibility to sell. So I wanted a finished product to show to suppliers. So thanks for your input and your time.

Sphere...

**Christopher4187** · - 17th February 2007, 19:23

Sphere,

Are you only looking for the hardware or are you looking for a turnkey device? i.e. all software loaded and they keypad does something when the correct code is entered?

Chris

**keithdoxey** · - 17th February 2007, 19:45

Originally Posted by Melanie

Here's an example picture of 3 Buttons, LED, IR Receiver plus LCD done as a prototype 'on the cheap'. It looks like a membrane but it isn't. It's actually all standard PCB mounted with the LED and Buttons mounted on the reverse side of the thru-hole-plated PCB.

Very neat Melanie

You forgot to mention the custom faceplate.... aka mounting frame for holding 4 RJ45 modules

What was the fascia made from ?
Is it a screen printed plastic overlay or printed paper behind plain plastic.

**Melanie** · - 17th February 2007, 20:11

Well spotted Keith. Those RJ45 faceplates make great LCD and/or keypad bezels!

The fasica is two-colour reverse screen printed on flexible clear plastic with a self-adhesive backing applied onto the print side. This means the User can't scratch the print. Any local Screen Printer worthy of the name can handle that with ease.

The fasica fits over an Aluminium (or mild steel) plate which in turn drops into the 4xRJ45 module aperture. This plate has all the cut-outs for the LCD, Switches, LED etc and contains integral threaded pillars onto which the PCB secures from the other side. Again, the manufacture of this plate wouldn't tax the talents of any sheet-metal basher.

If anyone is unclear from the description, I'll pull one out and photograph it if there's any interest.

**Sphere** · - 17th February 2007, 20:28

Originally Posted by Christopher4187

Sphere,

Are you only looking for the hardware or are you looking for a turnkey device? i.e. all software loaded and they keypad does something when the correct code is entered?

Chris

I have already have a working hand held prototype using full size buttons lcd etc, but I just wanted to give the wow factor to my suppliers to give this product a chance. It may only sell about 500 units but it would be nice to dream of milions. Just have to stash a bit more cash thats all.

Sphere...

**mister_e** · - 17th February 2007, 20:37

The Melanie's suggestion is widely used. Cheap, simple, easy... wanna have another language... few cents later it's done.... same thing when the lettering disapear (not often) or damaged (often).

I already thought about membrane myself too... most of the time, they just don't worth their price. Guess why it's so expensive?

Few cents tact switch, few cents plastic and not much. O.K there's few more assembly steps so far... it's the ONLY down side.. at least to me.

**keithdoxey** · - 17th February 2007, 21:00

Originally Posted by Melanie

Well spotted Keith. Those RJ45 faceplates make great LCD and/or keypad bezels!

I have used red perspex to use one to mount LED displays and IR sensors

The fasica is two-colour reverse screen printed on flexible clear plastic with a self-adhesive backing applied onto the print side. This means the User can't scratch the print. Any local Screen Printer worthy of the name can handle that with ease.

So that was a production one rather than a protoype.

The fasica fits over an Aluminium (or mild steel) plate which in turn drops into the 4xRJ45 module aperture. This plate has all the cut-outs for the LCD, Switches, LED etc and contains integral threaded pillars onto which the PCB secures from the other side. Again, the manufacture of this plate wouldn't tax the talents of any sheet-metal basher.

If anyone is unclear from the description, I'll pull one out and photograph it if there's any interest.

Description is perfect but photos are always nice

**Archangel** · - 18th February 2007, 04:12

Hi Sphere, another resource you may have overlooked is your local sign shop.
They have computer graphic mylar tape cutters that can make any design you can think up. Prospective manufacturers are aware of the cost of custom parts like the keyboard you want, but they are kind of short sighted as to your vision of a product. You can make the simulated membrane keypad and present design of production model along with estimates of setup costs, UNLESS, Unless you intend to be the manufacturer too. Me, I would be happy with my 3 percent or whatever the market is now and move quickly to the next Million seller, and leave the headache of marketing and manufacturing to them,

**Luciano** · - 18th February 2007, 10:06

Hi Sphere,

Yesterday I posted a link of a company in the UK.

The same company has another web site:
http://www.customdesigntechnologies.com

They have a service called "customAssembly".

Try to contact these people and see If they are willing
to take some risks together with you. (Joint venture).
http://www.customdesigntechnologies.com/id29.html

I am sure that they have already an eclosure with keypad
that will fit your needs, so the initial costs will be low
for them. Later on, if the product sells well, a new
enclosure with new keypad is always possible.

Good luck with your project!

Best regards,

Luciano

**Melanie** · - 18th February 2007, 10:46

>> So that was a production one rather than a protoype.

Prototype or Production, the process is very much the same here. In the case of the facia, we use a small one-man silk-screener who works out of a garage in his home. Half a dozen new labels for a prototype he'll do for free on the basis we give him many thousands worth of business over the year. Likewise we have a good relationship with the metal-basher who knows that prototypes lead to production quantities later down the line. Again, it's time to cultivate relationships with suppliers, and to stick by them because they rely on you as much as you on them. We spend for example about $250k with one small sheet-metal shop. Yes, I could halve that figure by switching the work to China, but he's got kids in school and a morgage to pay too and relies on my work. On the other hand, by keeping him in business I've got someone twenty minutes down the road that I can say "I need this in a hurry" hand him a quick scribble done on the back on an envelope and I'll know he'll work all night to do it.

**Ioannis** · - 23rd February 2007, 20:19

Hi Melanie. If it is not too much trouble, a couple of photos of the sandwitch assembly would be helpful.

Thanks,
Ioannis

**b1arrk5** · - 13th March 2007, 20:59

Dear Melanie,
I would also like to see a few more photos if you can find the time. It looks great! I remember someone suggesting that you could make a one off using a laser printer and laser overhead transparency film. He or she made their layout on the computer, and then mirrored it and printed it out so that the toner would be on the back. Probably would last long enough to demonstrate a prototype.

Thanks,

Jerry.

**Ioannis** · - 14th March 2007, 07:53

I have tried a different approach.

I printed on plain paper the color/bw artwork (or even on a digital photocopier from a pdf file).

Then laminated the paper and cut it to the dimensions needed.

This works good even if one has switch underneath or LCD (you have to cut carefully the window).

Of course it is not possible to make a dome at the position of the virtual button, but it is a prototype, right?

Ioannis

**muddy0409** · - 15th March 2007, 04:04

Hi Mel.
I would be pleased to see some pics of the "off the shelf" RJ45 plate you used. I have looked around Australia for cheap ready to go type plates with assorted holes already in them but can't find any.
Are these a standard electric accessory in UK?

**keithdoxey** · - 15th March 2007, 10:58

Originally Posted by muddy0409

Hi Mel.
I would be pleased to see some pics of the "off the shelf" RJ45 plate you used.

http://www.rapidonline.com/productin...moduleno=75336

**Melanie** · - 15th March 2007, 12:14

OK, gimme a day or two for the pics.... decorators have destroyed my office (new promotion, new budget, new decor!) so the only free seat I've got at the moment is in the executive loo!!!! Just as well the Laptop's wireless, but the acoustics are a bummer for talking to clients...

**b1arrk5** · - 16th March 2007, 00:39

Hi Melanie,
Congratulations on the promotion! From seeing your work here on the forum I know it was well deserved.

Jerry.

**muddy0409** · - 16th March 2007, 02:16

Congratulations from everyone as well Mel,

You know that while you are having your photo taken for the cardkey for the loo, you just gotta set a copy as a new avatar? I firmly believe the existing one is fake anyway, No-one that beautiful (and also almost blond) could be so bloody smart, so come on, upgrade the pic. At least we will finally know what you REALLY look like after all the years of pulling your hair out!

Seriously but, I really am sure you so well deserve this promotion to whatever position it is and just hope it will not lessen your activity on this fine forum.

Go buy yourself a big bottle of Australian bubbly and write a card from me and all on this forum. Put the bill in to petty cash as Liquid Lunch with a client.

**muddy0409** · - 16th March 2007, 02:23

Hmmmmm....
On closer examination, perhaps you aren't almost blonde!
Damn, I really gotta get a colour monitor..This old TV is getting a bit burnt in..

**Melanie** · - 16th March 2007, 06:39

Hummm.... Noooo.... my latest pics either show me ten years older than I really am because of bad lighting, or looking like your blonde thats been dragged through a hedge backwards!

**Ioannis** · - 16th March 2007, 07:54

Originally Posted by muddy0409

... I firmly believe the existing one is fake anyway, No-one that beautiful (and also almost blond) could be so bloody smart, so come on, upgrade the pic ...

Yeah. The one with the whip and the leathers and the black boots one please!

Every one behave yourself. Melanie is coming!

Ioannis

**Melanie** · - 16th March 2007, 08:12

Behave! I charge serious money for those... I'll give you the same pic from a different angle for now and see who notices...

**Luciano** · - 16th March 2007, 10:55

Originally Posted by Melanie

Behave! I charge serious money for those... I'll give you the same pic from a different angle for now and see who notices...

Picture A!

Luciano

**Ioannis** · - 16th March 2007, 10:59

A of course!

Ioannis

**Acetronics2** · - 16th March 2007, 14:05

This one ( catty ) for me ( different angle of view )... or the other

**mister_e** · - 16th March 2007, 15:26

Here's few more...

notice the position of the hand
__________________________________________________ ___________________

mmm, not even blonde...
__________________________________________________ ___________________

Let me dream

**muddy0409** · - 19th March 2007, 06:03

Hmmm..................
After careful consideration and considerable viewing of them both.....
Yuck!!
Go back to the original view Mel, it's a bit easier on the old heart..

**Melanie** · - 19th March 2007, 08:28

You just can't please people!!!

**Ioannis** · - 19th March 2007, 09:42

Originally Posted by Melanie

You just can't please people!!!

Why you say that? I think everyone here agrees on A!

Ioannis

**Luciano** · - 19th March 2007, 17:18

Hi Melanie,

We all love you because you're smart and generous.

e-flowers for you!

Best regards,

Luciano

**Melanie** · - 20th March 2007, 17:08

Grazie Luciano, sentono l'odore di grande!

Thread: This one is for Melanie if you have time.

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This one is for Melanie if you have time.

Thanks for the reply Melanie

Membrane immitator

Melanie's idea

Congratulations!

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