ChatBox Good / Bad Poll

[lester]

We added a chatbox to the forum last week, its been running for a week now.

what do users think, is this a good feature that we should keep?

a bad feature that we should remove?

a useful feature that should be limited to a single forum area?

[mister_e]

I see no reason to kill it, ok democratic poll... but on an hidden section.. i mean... if you don't like it... don't go there. I'm I missing something or some haters have to do their job and poop the party for some others

[cncmachineguy]

Just a thought, those who don't like the chat can hit the little arrow in the top right corner and shrink it down to just a bar. Then you don't have to see it at all, but those who like it can leave it open.

Best of all worlds for everyone

[lester]

It seems to me that many users don't really care

There are 60 or so regular users, i.e people that visit this forum daily or weekly and most of them have not even voted, its obviously a non event to the vast majority.

and of those that have voted there is no clear feeling either way.

maybe i should force users (at log in) to visit this thread and encourage all to vote??????

[mackrackit]

maybe i should force users (at log in) to visit this thread and encourage all to vote??????

Sounds like a good idea to me.

[ScaleRobotics]

More votes is always good. Right now it is 7 love it, 7 hate it, and 5 think it should have a spot. So it seems that 12 want it and 7 don't want it. Seems more decisive than a lot of polls (official or not) that I have seen! Also in tune (at least with USA's) voter turn out, at about 30 percent.

[Archangel]

More votes is always good. Right now it is 7 love it, 7 hate it, and 5 think it should have a spot. So it seems that 12 want it and 7 don't want it. Seems more decisive than a lot of polls (official or not) that I have seen! Also in tune (at least with USA's) voter turn out, at about 30 percent.

That's funny scalerobotics or is it walter ? how many votes represented there (are you)? Statistics are a funny game by yours 12 want it by mine 13 either hate it or want it limited. I will stand Alone if necessary as being against anything which makes the forum slower to load. This includes silly chat rooms, big or moving gifs of signatures, or avatars, huge images loaded by users etc. I think the thing I hate most about the chat room is it is at the top of every flippin' page . . . pun intended. And while on my soapbox that includes the slide out message thing on the right side of the forum page, it requires a script to hide it and that is really slow too. It also means in order to not have to look at it i have to allow scripts to run while in here, lovely.

[ScaleRobotics]

Well Joe, it looks like I am in the majority then, by both by your and my statistics! I am pretty sure I had the first vote for the poll. My (single) vote was to limit it to an area. It would be unethical to vote more than once, don't you think?

I am a bit on the fence about the chat room. But I have not found a reason to hate it. And from what I see, it seems like people are enjoying it. I haven't seen it abused, and I haven't seen load time have a noticeable change. So I say, let people have it if they want it.

Oh, by the way Joe, you can call me Walter, or ScaleRobotics. My parents call me Walt, and people at work call me Wally. And of course I have been called a lot worse. So you can pretty much call me anything you like.

-Walter

[lester]

note: on any modern machine with a decent amount of application ram and a decent processor the chatbox and other features mentioned should not slow down the load time.

the chatbox does refresh periodically and requires some bandwidth if you dont ahve decent bandwidth available to you then yes that will slow the chatbox refresh

ideally i'd suggest that the minimum spec for a good experience should be dual core 1.2Mhz processor with 1Gb memory and at least 1Mb/s connection...........but i have a machine with an old P4 and 1Gb memory and 1Mb/s and it works just fine running firefox.....ie7 & 8 are very slow on that machine !!


I use Firefox almost exclusively.

[sayzer]

Having a slow PC was my thought also.

One of the best thing about this chat feature, in my opinion, is that I now can talk with people who has some coding and hardware knowledge.
So when I make a joke, at least now there are people who will understand.
They won't be clueless.

I have not started making jokes there yet !


Sitting in front of this monitor whole day, and having a live chat box is great.

[lester]

Yes, but could you not do exactly the same thing in a forum section?

Programmatically the ChatBox is the same as a forum section, just viewed differently and with an automatic expiry.

I'm still not convinced its that great a feature, but I do see that it has its uses if its live at the top of every page so that when online you can join in a conversation without having to move to a specific forum section.

So the Poll option of having ChatBox only available on one section , seems a crazy solution to me.

[Archangel]

Well Joe, it looks like I am in the majority then, by both by your and my statistics! I am pretty sure I had the first vote for the poll. My (single) vote was to limit it to an area. It would be unethical to vote more than once, don't you think?
-Walter

Yes I do think so. As moderators we have the unenviable position of staying above suspicion, and raising that suspicion first. Like internal affairs, Devil's advocate.
Walter works for me, and thank you for having the guts to respond to that question Walter.

lester

Re: ChatBox Good / Bad Poll
note: on any modern machine with a decent amount of application ram and a decent processor the chatbox and other features mentioned should not slow down the load time.

the chatbox does refresh periodically and requires some bandwidth if you dont ahve decent bandwidth available to you then yes that will slow the chatbox refresh

ideally i'd suggest that the minimum spec for a good experience should be dual core 1.2Mhz processor with 1Gb memory and at least 1Mb/s connection...........but i have a machine with an old P4 and 1Gb memory and 1Mb/s and it works just fine running firefox.....ie7 & 8 are very slow on that machine !!


I use Firefox almost exclusively.

My system is better than listed above, I have tried Cable internet - - slower than DSL! Any DSL I get comes through good OLD reliable AT & T regardless of the carrier, and it BLOWS ! It beats dialup for speed,
but not reliability. Sometimes speed is ok. THE USA needs to update it's tired old telephone system, but it ain't gonna' do it until forced to. Some 3rd world countries have better internet service. Usually the "better areas" have better service. I am 1/2 million Dollars short of moving to one.
Go figure ! Funny thing is they pay the same rate for service. And I only use Firefox too + Adblock, No Script, and Image zoom.
Maybe I am too old but I have no use for chat rooms, Facebook, or Twitter, or Trivia games, I don't waste time on foot ball, either kind, you couldn't pay me to watch baseball, or any kind of ball game . . ugh maybe women's tennis
Having said all that you might get the impression I do not like to waste time, given that my bathrooms are libraries, there seems to be supporting evidence. This forum is NOT a waste of time, at least for me. That is why I come here. I respect it, I support it through trying to answer questions and moderating out spammers. I think feedback is critical to keeping it orderly, and useful. I have seen too many forums explode into unmanageable marshmellows where the original intent is lost.
[/soapbox]

[rsocor01]

Hi,

Well, I don't like the chatbox feature either, but I don't see a reason to kill it since some people seem to enjoy it. In my opinion the chatbox goes against the spirit of the forum, which is to provide serious and expert guidance to those that need it in PBP and related topics. The beauty of having threads in the forum is that you can find posts/code that were written years ago with a simple search.

Hmm, some people are going to hate my comments in this post. Maybe, the best solution is to give the user the option to set the chatbox on or off.

Robert

[Jerson]

Personally, I am indifferent to the chat box. I'd rather have it as a private chat box rather than the public avatar it is in right now. As lester put it, a PM box that works in instantaneous mode between 2 parties. That can keep out the clutter from the chat. An argument against it is what are IM programs for then? Well, sometimes the person you want to chat with is not an IM friend of yours.

From the poll results, I definitely feel the opinion is out there. People seem to love/hate it almost equally. Taking it private will eliminate the possibility of abusing the facility and also abusing the good sense of others via vile comments.

So, if given the option, I'd suggest, let it stay, but in a private avatar.

Cheers

[Demon]

Turning OFF the chatbox:

There is an up arrow at the far right on the Chatbox bar, clicking that will close the chatbox.

[retepsnikrep]

My problem with the chatbox is it's very transient nature. If a nugget of useful advice is given in response to a query it is lost to everyone shortly afterwards and does not help to build up the forum knowledgebase. If it's use was strictly limited to non pbpro chat then fine, any tech queries should be via forum postings as now so we all can benefit weeks or years later via a simple search. IMHO

[cncmachineguy]

I Like the chat box. If used responsibly, most of the concerns listed will not be valid. I feel for the most part, folks here providing "useful nuggets of information" will nudge the poster to start a thread. I know I will.

A chat box is a VERY different animal then a post. Yes you can chat with a forum post, but you also can chat with an email. But where is the fun in that? This is still a VERY new feature, killing it before it has even been able to mature would be a shame.

IMHO, chat boxes only bring 1 thing to the table - a better sense of community. If this is not wanted/needed here, So be it. Lets face it guys, we are geeks. Some of us hard core, some just a little, but all of us are. I am proud to be one. But as geeks, this is a form of socialization for us. I may ask a passing question about something geeky in the chat. But more likely I want to know how Roberts garage roof is coming along. Or have a playful banter with Steve. Maybe I am wondering how someones son is doing with some wonderful painting.

Yes I know, all could be solved with an email, but my email is a pretty active and full place.

If you want to kill it, I won't whine about it. But maybe at least give it a chance.

[BrianT]

One of the best features of the PBP forum is the enduring and searchable database of problems, solutions, tips and tricks. To make that work, ALL messages must be in the database and be searchable. Already we have private messaging where problems are solved but in private. Those gems are lost to the rest of us.

From a quick look at the ChatBox I see automotive and other chatter that has little to do with PICs or PBP and would be better on facebook. I'll wager that crud is not searchable and so is just a waste of space.

Please preserve the valuable Q&A resource by killing the ChatBox and actively discouraging private messaging where the content is ultimately beneficial to us all.

Cheers
BrianT

[sayzer]

..From a quick look at the ChatBox I see automotive and other chatter that has little to do with PICs or PBP and would be better on facebook. I'll wager that crud is not searchable and so is just a waste of space...

BrianT

This is why there is a chat box there.

[lester]

Looking at the voting, at present is a sure fire keep !

[.W4GNS]

Uhhhhhh, Well Lester, that seemed to work in my case

maybe i should force users (at log in) to visit this thread and encourage all to vote??????

[l_gaminde]

can't you put it under its own heading where I will never have to see it unless I want to

[HenrikOlsson]

Hi Larry,
You can minimize it and you won't see it. It tends to pop back at times, for me at least so I have to remind it to stay out of my way.

Since a decision to keep it apparently have been made can we PLEASE have the big yellow message about voting for/against it removed? At one time I managed to get it out of the way but it too keeps comming back. Yes I HAVE voted and no it was not in favour of the chat box....

[lester]

Now, If you dismiss the poll vote reminder, it will not reappear.

The poll is on going. the number of users that have bothered to vote is very low. if more users decode to vote that its unwanted i'll remove it.

The option to show the chat is one forum area defeats the object of the chat system. The chat system, if being used, needs to be visible across all forums, else you cannot be involved in a chat as you browse the whole of the forum system.

I consider all votes for the chat as positive, so votes for the chat and votes for the chat in a single forum area are accumulated

Thus the for votes out number the against votes, quite dramatically.

Personally i don't favour the chat system.....but the majority of users that have voted, do seem to favour the chat system.

Now, it has occured to me that some of the votes for "Its OK, sometimes, so limit it to just 1 forum area." Might be people that are being polite. Really they dont want the chat system, but they accept that some do. So maybe I should not lump their votes with the FOR.

The bottom line is that which ever way i view the results, its favourable towards the chat system.

[Ioannis]

So we keep it. But once again it seems that people are coming get what they want and then disappear. Mybe that is why the people that voted is low. Along with the low visibility of topics.

But then how can this change if one is not bothering to search?

Ioannis

[lester]

Hi Ioannis, sorry but i don't follow your train of thought

But once again it seems that people are coming get what they want and then disappear.

Can you explain?

Along with the low visibility of topics.

???

Chat is transient, so topics come and go and change depending upon the conversation.

I do agree that with the level of conversation being so low the fact that the history is limited, means that you cannot browse backwards to see many different topics. But that's the nature of a chat system.

It seems to me that people have voted YES for the chat, but then use it like a forum post, rather than an instant message between others users in the same time zone to discuss some transient subject matter.

I don't think that the chat system works very well on this forum, but it was requested and the result of the poll seems to be that it should stay.

Its a shame to see it under used and mis undertood. It takes time to set-up and maintain these features, so if they are requested and voted to keep, it would be satisfying to see them used, and used correctly.

[Ioannis]

With come and go I meant on the threads. I think many are looking for a quick tip, get the answer and may never come back to contribute this forum.

As for the visibility, I too meant for the threads. But this is the nature of the forums. One have to search...

Sorry I did not made my self clear, but the lanquage barrier hit again I guess.

Ioannis

[Demon]

Yup, some just do not understand the use for the chatbox. I think I'm going to chat this when someone asks for help on a software/hardware issue:

The chatbox is for idle chitchat; please start a thread with a meaningful title if you need assistance on a subject.

Maybe it should be made a subtitle in the Chatbox title bar.

[Archangel]

I thought the posts in chat are supposed to expire? Same old stuff there forever.

[Dave]

Well I voted hoping to ELIMINATE this annoying advert......

Dave Purola,
N8NTA

[Ioannis]

You can close it if you do not like it.

Ioannis

[Bonxy]

Only thing I dont like about it is that it's at the TOP of every page, very anoying, It would be better to the side or in its own section or something.

My tupence..

[lester]

The Chat Box seems to be so little used these days, i'm of a mind to remove it.

Its a real time application, yet the threads in it are responded to over days. Such discussion is better catered for in a forum entry.

how about we turn it off.

[HenrikOlsson]

Hi Lester,

Well, I've already voted against the chat but since you asked I'm fine with it being removed. Even if you decide to keep it please remove that gigant messagebox about voting.

/Henrik.

[sayzer]

Originally, my idea was to have a pop up window, with the fiends I added inside it, by the time I enter to the site.
As soon as or if any of them is online, the window would pop up and I could privately chat with my friends. No log, nothing. Simple small tiny chat box.
When I leave the site, the pop up window closes, and I appear offline.

[Bonxy]

I gave the chat a go a few days ago, and I watched it for about half an hour and it never changed, it was just refreshing, I think no one is using it.

Would it be possible to have a one to one chat app perhaps ?, where one user could invite another to discuss something in a pop-up window maybe.

[Pic_User]

Please turn the Chat off. Thanks for giving it a good try.

-Adam-

[Bonxy]

I was just reading some of the opinions and chatter about this subject and wondered to myself if this might be a better idea...

instead of asking people if they like it (because everyone will have a diffrent reply), why don't the admins just let it run and then look at the stats in a couple of months time to see if its being used enough to justify its existence...

if it is being used a lot keep it, if its not used much kill it!.

Is that a too simplistic a view, I dunno ?.

[Bruce]

Lester,

Is that annoying nag message about this really still necessary after several months?

[lester]

Bruce, probably not. I've turned it off.

However it was a non persistent message that should show only once per visit and you could dismiss it. Once dismissed it should not show up again....so long as you keep your cookies.

Anyway, its gone now....unlike the chat box, which has gained new life since i suggested removing it!!!