View Full Version : Stay or Go deleted.

Darrel Taylor
- 13th July 2007, 09:08
Well, it was a bad idea to start. And it was getting worse.

Somebody just slap me. Oh!, she did already. :eek:

OK, Plan B.


- 13th July 2007, 14:00
Looks like there are new rules for this forum.

1- Do not RTFM
2- Do not RTFD
3- Do not ask that the code or project be explained.
4- Do not do anything that will make the person asking the question think.

What about graphics with crystal balls?

I read most every post and in the end once the person started thinking the problem through with a little prodding the problem/question seemed to be answered. Every one has a different method of teaching. I am a teacher myself and sometimes things have to be done differently.

I would much rather have the resources pointed out to me than just given an answer. That way I learn. The other way I may end up with a project that works but not understand why.

One can learn from everyone, even if you do not agree with the way they teach. I know that I have learned a lot from reading the "BAD" post as well as the "GOOD" post.

I think a mistake has been made.

- 13th July 2007, 14:56
Hi all,

Darrel, I am with you 100%, this forum is a haven, compared to the typical egotistical flame war, high-tech, forums.
This atmosphere has been very accepting to the new-bie in PIC and / or electronics.

Lately the tone of “help” has had a slight turn to the “dark-side”.
This “bend” is not pleasant, even to the gurus, and is downright discouraging to a timid “first timer”.
I feel that the “fun rating” has fallen from a full 10 to a 4, because of this.
The quality has taken a giant hit. This takes away from the “joy of PICBASIC”.

Anything we HAVE to do to get the previous harmony would be worth the price IMO.
But the key words are “HAVE to do”.
Maybe we could try the same thing in increments, a step at a time.
We have tried many ways to hint, post, PM, email, etc., (as has been stated).

Each time I see a discouraging post to a new-bie, I try to post a helpful one right after it.
I know this is your method too. Except, I have no useful knowledge to add, 90% of the time.
So I am powerless to help.

The psychological problem seems to be:
The person with a “thick skin”, does not see what the problem is, with a hurtful post.
If they got that “snappy” answer, their thick skin would insulate them from even mild discomfort.
They would only be happy with the information part of the answer, not bothered by the “mean” part.
So this type of person sees nothing wrong, with any post that has a helpful aspect to it.

The rest of the problem is:
The same “thick skinned” person, does not recognize hints, posts, PMs, emails, etc..
These “requests” are ignored as inconsequential, trivial, “under the radar”, crap, not even noticed.
We have all seen the “come-on STOP IT” posts after a “flippant” valueless “put-down” post.
But, I don’t think the “thick skinned” type of person, even notices that, it comes out of pain, from many members.

Maybe, your “too ambitious” attempt at correcting is “a step too far” in the correct direction.
It seems that an “all or nothing” showdown has been discouraged. That is good IMO.
Remember, the type of postings we are talking about here, are NOT all bad.
Most are an attempt to be helpful, with a dash of unneeded pain thrown in.
If we could stop the unneeded pain and the obstructive part of the posts, the remainder is very useful.
The people posting answers, really want to help. They just have a prickly way about their style.

I am the first one to say RTFM, RTFD, explain the code, show the schematic. But, the style or method of making the new-bie, “pull their own weight”, is what we have to look at.

Let’s see if your well meaning effort, has been enough, to alert us that, the majority of people on this forum, want it to be an upbeat, friendly place to ask questions.

Only my opinion,

- 13th July 2007, 22:57
Obviously, I missed what has gone before, but, reading between the lines, I can guess.

I'd like to say that, in my experience, this has been an enormously friendly forum. At no time has a post of mine been badly treated. I extend kudos especially to Darrel and to Melanie.

I'm 57 (next month) and have been an electronics engineer my entire professional life, and an electronics hobbyist before that since age 12. I've been a licensed ham since 1965 (back when single-sideband had caught on and anything above 50 MHz was pretty much a wasteland).

But it's an enormous field of endeavor, always growing and changing, so there are lots of opportunities for me to still be a "newbie"--and I like that! (I still think op-amps are fun!) Hey, there were still a lot of vacuum tubes out there when I started pushing electrons around! (There's nothing friendlier than the warm glow of a vacuum tube on a dark night.)

A lot of my experience has been in instrumentation and broadcast; I came late to the digital explosion. I learned to program in FORTRAN in the late 1960s, mostly out of self-defense (no such thing as a "computer science" curriculum them). I've done assembly language with the 8008, 4004, 8080, 8085, and the Z80 twenty-plus years ago, and Small C with the 68HC11 a decade back. More recently, it's been BASIC with the MCS51 family. (However, I do still have my trusty UV EPROM eraser. It makes a great paperweight.)

But I'm (a) old and (b) new to PICs. I'm just as capable of asking a dumb question as is the greenest newbie.

I don't mind being told RTFM--but it sure helps if someone says, "Look in section so-and-so". It doesn't hurt my feelings to be reminded, courteously, that Ohm's Law and Kirchoff's Law still work, and that Cole's Law is still thinly-sliced cabbage. Especially helpful is when someone says, "That was covered a while back--see thread such-and-such." When someone posts an elegant snippet of code, I sometimes think, "Duh!--how did I miss that?"

This kind of forum represents an incredible pool of shared knowledge that newcomers can wallow in with sheer delight.

Maybe the only thing you need is a sign that says, "Please don't pee in the pool."