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T.Jackson
- 28th March 2007, 17:18
I realize that with my time here thus far I have offered little in terms technical assistance, PIC Basic snippets and so on.

So here's a nice BIG fish for everyone to cut their teeth on. A 245 LED, PC-programmable moving message display. Near-final cut, early last year the project was prototyped on two large PCBs and performed quite well. It's mandatory that high-intensity LEDs are used because the duty cycle is only around 2.8% for each column in the multiplex scheme. (Do NOT recommend expanding the display with more columns, the design is at its limits as is)

The component count is quite immense. This includes a 16f628, 24LC256 EEPROM, Max RS232, Decade Counters - 4017 variety, tonne of common passives, it'll take a couple of solid days work to put together. I can't offer the PCB layout sorry.

The zip file download includes schematics, micro controller source and Windows-based source written in Visual Basic 5.0, plus compiled executable. You will need the Virtual machine runtime DLL for the executable. This can be either msvbvm50.dll or msvbvm60.dll which are both freely obtainable.

Best Regards,
Trent Jackson

Pic_User
- 29th March 2007, 04:07
Hey Trent,

Thanks for the nice upload. You have included a lot of detailed information. We can learn a lot from the project. Interesting.

-Adam-

T.Jackson
- 29th March 2007, 05:22
I have also included a copy of the draft article - contains a modest amount of technical theory for the project. Sorry if some of you find it to be a bit of a hard read, it hasn't been proof read or edited, only been read by myself once or twice. In a technical sense I believe it to be accurate however.

I do sincerely hope that someone finds the project of interest, quite a fair bit of my time was poured into its development. The software was written in a matter of just a couple of days, but the overall hardware design did take some considerable time. It was intended to be published as a full scale project in the Silicon Chip magazine. Unfortunately however it won't ever go to print. Too expensive to build, too quirky to assemble, for a project like this to be successful it needs a double sided through-hole plated PCB a long with LED modules - not 245 individual LEDs.

All told, to make matters even more difficult, you can buy something like this pre assembled for under $100. It's just never gonna be this cheap for a KIT. But on the flip side of the coin, there is a nice learning aspect with building a big and useful project like this.

Trent Jackson

Dazheng
- 7th April 2007, 20:07
Hi Trent Thank you very much for posting your project. Its verrrry interesting project and I want to build one for myself.

T.Jackson
- 8th April 2007, 03:33
It's definitely worth building. Wish I still had my prototype. It was never returned to me.

T.Jackson
- 15th April 2007, 08:29
Turns out I will be getting my prototype returned, so I can offer technical support to those keen on building it.

precision
- 18th April 2007, 15:55
I build this circuit with only one 5X7 led display ( Col 1,2,3,4,5 ), But not working. Is it necessary to built all 7 display ?

T.Jackson
- 19th April 2007, 03:02
I build this circuit with only one 5X7 led display ( Col 1,2,3,4,5 ), But not working. Is it necessary to built all 7 display ?

Can you be a bit more specific - what exactly have you done & what's not working?

As is, without great modification, it would be next to useless with just 35 LEDs.

precision
- 19th April 2007, 03:54
My controller circuit is same, But i connect only one 5x7 dot matrix display to IC3 ( cd4017)

T.Jackson
- 19th April 2007, 05:20
My controller circuit is same, But i connect only one 5x7 dot matrix display to IC3 ( cd4017)

I see. Are you able to successfully upload a message from the Windows software to the EEPROM? If so, do any of the LEDs come on?

(You need to describe exact symptoms - theoretically, because each character is actually 5x7, I guess the circuit should show a quick flicker of single characters on 35 LEDs. There would be noticeable pauses in between. In other words, yes I believe it should do something with just 35 LEDs.

precision
- 19th April 2007, 09:42
How i confirm that i successfully upload a message from the Windows software to the EEPROM?

I also using 24c04 instead of 24c256,

will you upload eny video of working display ?

Are display something look like This video ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtUVlkJdNwM

T.Jackson
- 19th April 2007, 10:09
How i confirm that i successfully upload a message from the Windows software to the EEPROM?

I also using 24c04 instead of 24c256,

will you upload eny video of working display ?

Are display something look like This video ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtUVlkJdNwM

Do you realize that the 24c04 is technically different to the 24c256? You can't just whack in the 24c04 and hope for the best - it won't work without modifying the software. The 24c04 is cumbersome to work with compared to the 24c256. Byte sized addressing and bank switching complicate a relatively simple need.

Dazheng
- 25th April 2007, 03:13
Greetings Trent,
I am now starting to build your project, I'm on stage one building 4017 sequencer. I have some question, is it possible to extend it for more characters, as of now it has seven character i want to extend it for more characters. can you please guide or give some example on how to do it. Thanks in advance....

T.Jackson
- 25th April 2007, 04:22
Greetings Trent,
I have some question, is it possible to extend it for more characters, as of now it has seven character i want to extend it for more characters. can you please guide or give some example on how to do it. Thanks in advance....

I don't recommend cascading anymore sections. The duty cycle is extremely low as it is. About 2.5% for each column. What this all means is that the LEDs won't be bright enough if more columns are added.

If you want to build a really huge display with a 100 or so columns, your best bet would be to use a few PIC16f877's. Break it into 4 sections - 25 columns for ea controller. The display will be nice & bright this way. Big job!

The hardest part will be in the software, making sure that ea section is properly synchronized with minimal latency. Shuffling data between ea section. On second thought - it's a masive job to do properly.

T.Jackson
- 25th April 2007, 05:17
I just scanned in a few pics of the original prototype - thought I'd upload them.

<img src="http://www.picbasic.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1563&d=1177470983" align="left">
<img src="http://www.picbasic.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1564&d=1177471027">

Not bad for a single sided PCB huh?

Dazheng
- 26th April 2007, 02:49
WOW... Cool and awesome design. Trent is it possible for you to feature here your PCB layout? I know how hard you work for it, just a humble and simple request... Thanks in advance.

T.Jackson
- 26th April 2007, 03:33
WOW... Cool and awesome design. Trent is it possible for you to feature here your PCB layout? I know how hard you work for it, just a humble and simple request... Thanks in advance.

Unfortunately I can't offer the PCBs. Main reason, the Protel libraries that I used
aren't mine. They are owned by Silicon Chip publications.

T.Jackson
- 26th April 2007, 10:29
<pre>
Here you can buy one pre-made that's bigger, better and brighter for less money. Like I said before - DIY is history...
</Pre>
<img src="http://www.picbasic.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1572&stc=1&d=1177575992">
<pre>
Few years back something like this would have cost many hundreds of dollars
</pre>

ismael b.
- 28th April 2007, 21:59
HELLO TRENT

The OTHER SIDE Of the PCB is POSSIBLE SCANNEAR WHERE THEY ARE the COMPONENTS (CD4017, pic16f628, etc). OPPOSING SIDE OF THE COMPONENTS.

DEBTOR,


ISMAEL BRATTI BRAZIL

T.Jackson
- 29th April 2007, 09:54
Picture far right shows the main controller board with all associated digital circuitry. Suggest taking a closer look.

Far left - the display board which houses all 245 LEDs a long with column drivers
(Q1 - Q35). The display board is stacked on top of the controller board and wired accordingly. (see schematic) <br/>

T.Jackson
- 6th May 2007, 16:07
Someone has just brought to my attention that there's a missing dependency file in the download. This file is mscomm32.ocx and is required for serial communications. Unfortunately I can't include this in the download because I"m not licensed to do so.

You may obtain it here:
http://www.2ocx.com/show.php?ocx=mscomm32.ocx

<br/>

Dan Cata
- 9th May 2007, 00:23
Did you make a movie or something of the display working so we can see how it looks when ready? Mine is almost done!

fazan83
- 9th May 2007, 06:59
I realize that with my time here thus far I have offered little in terms technical assistance, PIC Basic snippets and so on.

So here's a nice BIG fish for everyone to cut their teeth on. A 245 LED, PC-programmable moving message display. Near-final cut, early last year the project was prototyped on two large PCBs and performed quite well. It's mandatory that high-intensity LEDs are used because the duty cycle is only around 2.8% for each column in the multiplex scheme. (Do NOT recommend expanding the display with more columns, the design is at its limits as is)

The component count is quite immense. This includes a 16f628, 24LC256 EEPROM, Max RS232, Decade Counters - 4017 variety, tonne of common passives, it'll take a couple of solid days work to put together. I can't offer the PCB layout sorry.

The zip file download includes schematics, micro controller source and Windows-based source written in Visual Basic 5.0, plus compiled executable. You will need the Virtual machine runtime DLL for the executable. This can be either msvbvm50.dll or msvbvm60.dll which are both freely obtainable.

Best Regards,
Trent Jackson

Trent Jackson,
I am really interested with your project but can you please post the code here?
I want to see the code and try to understand it.
That is the best way for me to understanding your design.

If cannot then fine.


Thanks in advance.

Ops sorry I just found the code here.

Sorry for not looking the file properly.
I will try this and ask you if I have any question.

Thanks

T.Jackson
- 9th May 2007, 07:11
Everything is in the d/l - if you have any queries then just post them here.

Dan Cata
- 10th May 2007, 13:11
Dear Trent, i have recently installed Win XP on my comp and copyed MSCOMM32.OCX in sys32 (VB not installed) ; the aplication runs but when i press "program messege to eeprom" button, i get an Communications error "Port already in use or doesn't exist ; Chose a different port " but the com1 is free; what do i do?

T.Jackson
- 10th May 2007, 14:20
Apart from suggesting that you try another comm port, it's hard-to-say because everything works fine on my end. I have Win XP with service pack 2. If there was a problem MSCOMM32.OCX, the program wouldn't run at all. So you can rule that out.

magu
- 29th May 2007, 23:33
I have build my led matrix from the start to finish. and i have some problems... I finaly programmmeed the PIC and when i connect the 5V and the 12V and the Serial Port, and when i bush the button for program LED it doesen`t stay ON (lighting).I start the VB program to sent EEPROM the informations but when finished nothing happens. I have a link with the sheme that i construct... i hope you can help me... THX.. I will wait for your answer.

http://www.zamfirelu.org/lm.jpg

precision
- 30th May 2007, 04:29
What is this ?
Why you mount all 14 capacitor in one place ? and there are no capacitor between PIC's VCC and GND.


.

T.Jackson
- 30th May 2007, 04:38
I'm getting emails left right & center from people telling me about their problems with this thing. It's not a simple project - in my opinion, it requires the constructor to have some sort of formal background with electronics. If you build it, you've gotta be prepared to fault find your mistakes, because you will make them, there's a lot of wires & parts and a whole range of silly little errors that could occur.

By the way, I noticed on your photograph of the board that all the 0.1uf decoupling caps are banked up together ??? They actually need to be placed as close as possible to the power connections of each chip. (That's why there's so many of them, one for each chip) Knowing this sort of thing is relatively basic electronics and if you aren't aware of simple things like this then I highly discourage you from building it. Sorry - the truth hurts. :(

skimask
- 30th May 2007, 05:47
Knowing this sort of thing is relatively basic electronics and if you aren't aware of simple things like this then I highly discourage you from building it. Sorry - the truth hurts. :(

Abso-tively Poso-lutely....the sequence should be: One blinky LED, then 245...

But, we all know, it usually starts the other way around...

245 non-blinky LEDs, then back to one non-blinky LED, then on to one blinky LED, then, and only then, do you get 245 blinky LEDs...(well, maybe a few extra steps in between)...

T.Jackson
- 30th May 2007, 06:19
When I've got some spare time I might write an article describing "basic" electronics and trouble shooting. So anyone that's having difficulty with the project, just put it aside until you've had a chance to read the article. It'll be a while though, I'm actually a full time student at the moment struggling to do a 4yr degree in information technology.

magu
- 30th May 2007, 12:24
Tell me pls a the possible problem that the board doesen`t work. I connect the entire wires to the pics and capacitor, diodes and rezistors; i change the pic over 3 times, the eeprom 2 times but doesen`t work... i sincerily i need some help.

skimask
- 30th May 2007, 14:44
Tell me pls a the possible problem that the board doesen`t work. I connect the entire wires to the pics and capacitor, diodes and rezistors; i change the pic over 3 times, the eeprom 2 times but doesen`t work... i sincerily i need some help.

We all 'sincerily' need help...but...100,000+ different things can cause this to fail...
Wiring faults (go over 100 times and you still miss that ONE wire that's wrong, programmer faults, etc.etc...
But for one...I see the cap's in the cluster still haven't moved nearer to the chips like suggested earlier!!!

magu
- 31st May 2007, 12:59
tell me pls what capacitor do i ha\ve to place and where?

T.Jackson
- 31st May 2007, 14:31
tell me pls what capacitor do i ha\ve to place and where?

The caps are the least of your worry. What about the LEDs? You've used common diffused 5mcd types, these won't be bright enough. I clearly made mention of this several times in the article and on the schematic. Unfortunately, I feel, you've bitten off more than you can chew.

magu
- 31st May 2007, 15:12
Those are the steps that i should follow?

1. Install Visualbasic
2. Connect the board to 5v and 12v
3. Connect the serial port to board
4. Start VB program (programing the eeprom)
5. Push the program button (the led should stay litghing?)
6. Program the eeprom from VB program
Those steps are good?

T.Jackson
- 31st May 2007, 15:18
Yes - sounds about right.

magu
- 31st May 2007, 17:56
but the problem is that the led doesn`t stay on (lighting). you know what the cause is?

T.Jackson
- 1st June 2007, 02:58
The purpose of that LED is to give a visual indication that the PIC is indeed receiving data from the PC. It should toggle on/off with every byte received.
Initially, when the program button is pressed - the LED should be lit, assuming that the TX line from the PC to the PIC is idle (or not connected at all).

After the PIC receives its first byte - the LED should change states. Upon receiving the second, once again changing states. It should continue to do so until the PC has finished programming it. The LED is of little importance and the message that you program should begin to scroll automatically after successful download.

T.Jackson
- 2nd June 2007, 07:26
<img src="http://www.picbasic.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1693&stc=1&d=1180759627">
<hr/>
The fact of the matter is, after all of this - I honestly have no use for a scrolling marque display. Primarily, the project was only ever attempted in efforts to add to my collection of published projects in the Silicon Chip magazine. As I've stated before, it won't ever being seeing the light of day inside any magazine. So the question for myself was, what do I do with this bloody thing? I put so much time into it, shame to just give it the "heave-ho" in the trash can. After several moments of considerable thought it dawned on me to yes, you guessed it - turn it into a clock! Why not?, its plenty big enough, at least for a 12hr one that is. Unfortunately, however though, its a couple of columns shy for a 24hr clock, at least for me it is, since I concluded that (5x7) digits are mandatory. Much in between just doesn't quite look right. So here it is, source code and all for those of you who have built this thing and would like to turn it into a clock. I also wrote a simple VB app that is used to set the time. (See screen shot) The VB source and everything else is in the download.


Include "modedefs.bas" ' Include serial modes
Define OSC 4 ' 4MHz crystal
CMCON = 7 ' All digital
OPTION_REG = %10000111 ' TMRO prescale = 256
TRISA = %00010000 ' All outputs except RA4
TRISB = %00000000 ' All outputs ...
INTCON.5 = 1 ' Enable TMR0 interrupts
INTCON.2 = 0 ' Reset overflow flag

on interrupt goto Clock

'// Chrs (0-9) stored in on-chip E˛PROM
data @0,62,65,65,65,62 ' 0
data @5,64,127,66,0,0 ' 1
data @10,70,73,81,97,66 ' 2
data @15,54,73,73,65,34 ' 3
data @20,16,127,18,20,24 ' 4
data @25,49,73,73,73,39 ' 5
data @30,50,73,73,73,62 ' 6
data @35,3,5,9,113,1 ' 7
data @40,54,73,73,73,54 ' 8
data @45,62,73,73,73,38 ' 9
data @50,0,0,0,0,0 ' Space
data @55,8,8,8,8,8 ' Colm

Row_Data VAR BYTE ' Contains one column worth of a chr at a time
Column_Scan VAR BYTE ' Current col that's active
Digit_Pos Var byte ' E˛PROM address pointing to current col data
Digit_Loc VAR Byte ' Start E˛PROM address for new chr
Colm var byte ' Blinking colm ...
Counter VAR Word ' Time keeping counter
Secs_Digit1 var byte ' Secs (1's)
Secs_Digit2 var byte ' Secs (10's)
Mins_Digit1 var byte ' Mins (1's)
Mins_Digit2 var byte ' Mins (10's)
Hrs_Digit1 var byte ' Hrs (1's)
Hrs_Digit2 var byte ' Hrs (10's)

Clock_Cols VAR PORTB.6
Reset_Cols VAR PORTB.5
ROW1 VAR PORTA.2
ROW2 VAR PORTA.3
ROW3 VAR PORTB.4
ROW4 VAR PORTB.3
ROW5 VAR PORTB.0
ROW6 VAR PORTB.2
ROW7 VAR PORTB.1
Prog_Button VAR PORTA.4
TX_To_PC var PORTB.7

Counter = $7A12
TMR0 = 0
Column_Scan = 0
Digit_Pos = 0
Secs_Digit1 = 0
Secs_Digit2 = 0
Mins_Digit1 = 0
Mins_Digit2 = 0
Hrs_Digit1 = 2
Hrs_Digit2 = 1
Colm = 0
Reset_Cols = 1
Reset_Cols = 0

LED_Display: ' Scan cols & output row dat
@ incf _Column_Scan, 1 ' Inc col
@ incf _Digit_Pos, 1 ' Inc chr pos (0-4)
Row_Data = 0 ' Reset
IF Column_Scan = 37 THEN Column_Scan = 1 ' ^

select case Column_Scan
case 1 ' Secs (1's)
Digit_Pos = 0 ' Reset
Digit_Loc = (Secs_Digit1 * 5) ' Set loc
case 6 ' Space
Digit_Pos = 0
Digit_Loc = 50
case 7 ' Secs (10's)
Digit_Pos = 0
Digit_Loc = (Secs_Digit2 * 5)
case 12,13 ' Colm
Digit_Pos = 0
IF Colm = 2 then ' Blink colm
Digit_Loc = 55
else
Digit_Loc = 50
endif
case 14 ' Mins (1's)
Digit_Pos = 0
Digit_Loc = (Mins_Digit1 * 5)
case 19
Digit_Pos = 0 ' Space
Digit_Loc = 50
case 20 ' Mins (10's)
Digit_Pos = 0
Digit_Loc = (Mins_Digit2 * 5)
case 25,26 ' Colm
Digit_Pos = 0
IF Colm = 2 then
Digit_Loc = 55
else
Digit_Loc = 50
endif
case 27 ' Hours (1's)
Digit_Pos = 0
Digit_Loc = (Hrs_Digit1 * 5)
case 32 ' Space
Digit_Pos = 0
Digit_Loc = 50
case 33 ' Hours (10's)
Digit_Pos = 0
if Hrs_digit2 = 0 then ' Show either 1 or nothing
Digit_Loc = 50 ' (12hr time only)
else
Digit_Loc = 5
endif
end select

read Digit_loc + Digit_Pos, Row_Data ' Fetch portion of digit
' One column at a time
'// Switch off all rows before advancing the counters
ROW1 = 0
ROW2 = 0
ROW3 = 0
ROW4 = 0
ROW5 = 0
ROW6 = 0
ROW7 = 0

'// Prog button pressed?
if Prog_Button = 0 then GOTO Set_Time

'// Clock cascaded counters
Clock_Cols = 1
Clock_Cols = 0

'// Logically AND data with row bit values and write to port asynchronously
IF Row_Data & 1 THEN ROW1 = 1
IF Row_Data & 2 THEN ROW2 = 1
IF Row_Data & 4 THEN ROW3 = 1
IF Row_Data & 8 THEN ROW4 = 1
IF Row_Data & 16 THEN ROW5 = 1
IF Row_Data & 32 THEN ROW6 = 1
IF Row_Data & 64 THEN ROW7 = 1
GOTO LED_Display ' Loop back

disable ' Disable interrupts here
Clock: ' Time keeping routine
INTCON.2 = 0 ' Clear TMR0 overflow flag
Counter = Counter - $1000 ' Dec
IF Counter < $1000 THEN ' 0.5 sec elapsed?
if colm = 2 then ' 1 sec elapsed
@ incf _Secs_Digit1, 1 ' Inc secs first digit
If Secs_digit1 = 10 Then ' Secs first digit = 10?
@ incf _Secs_Digit2, 1 ' Inc 10's of secs
Secs_digit1 = 0 ' Reset first digit
If Secs_digit1 = 0 then ' Has one minute elapsed?
if Secs_digit2 = 6 Then
@ incf _Mins_Digit1, 1 ' Inc mins first digit
Secs_digit2 = 0 ' Reset secs second digit
if Mins_digit1 = 10 then ' 10 mins elapsed?
@ incf _Mins_Digit2, 1 ' Inc 10's of mins
Mins_digit1 = 0 ' Reset first mins digit
If mins_digit1 = 0 then ' 60 mins elapsed?
if mins_digit2 = 6 Then '
@ incf _Hrs_Digit1, 1 ' Inc hours first digit
mins_digit2 = 0 ' Reset mins second digit
if Hrs_digit1 = 10 then ' 10 hours elapsed?
Hrs_digit1 = 0 ' Set hours digits to show 10
Hrs_Digit2 = 1
EndIf
if Hrs_digit1 = 3 then ' 12 hours elapsed?
if hrs_digit2 = 1 then '
Hrs_digit1 = 1 ' Reset hours to 1
Hrs_digit2 = 0 '
endif
endif
endif
endif
endif
endif
endif
endif
Colm = 0 ' Colm off ...
endif '
Counter = Counter + $7A12 ' Reset counter with 0.5s
@ incf _Colm, 1 ' Toggle colm every 0.5s
endif
resume

Set_Time:
low Prog_Button ' Set LED
SERIN TX_To_PC, N2400, ["@"], Hrs_Digit2, Hrs_Digit1, Mins_Digit2, Mins_Digit1, Secs_Digit2, Secs_Digit1
input Prog_Button ' Resume as input for prog but
Reset_Cols = 1 ' Reset 4017 counters
Reset_Cols = 0 '
Column_Scan = 0 ' Reset to start of scan
goto LED_Display ' Start clock


Trent Jackson
<hr/>
<img src="http://www.picbasic.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1694&stc=1&d=1180761506" align="right">

T.Jackson
- 2nd June 2007, 08:45
<h1>I passed the Discrete Maths unit !!!</h1>
Excuse the enthusiasm, but I just got my results back and it's the hardest thing I've ever done in my life!.

Pic_User
- 3rd June 2007, 03:22
Great Trent, congrats on passing. We knew you could do it!:D

T.Jackson
- 3rd June 2007, 04:17
Thanks :D

Getting back to the clock for a moment - I've had it running for 24hrs so far and its gained 3 secs. Anyone have any thoughts on how to improve its accuracy?

precision
- 3rd June 2007, 04:44
I think use DS1307 or Darrel Taylor's time solution.

shahidali55
- 3rd June 2007, 12:39
Converting the display project to a clock was a really nice idea.
I think i will be making it sometime.
About the clock gaining 3 sconds in 24hrs, using Darrels's instant Interrupts system will keep it within 0.5 sec a day.
I've tried making clocks with the PBP interupt system but i faced the same accuracy problem.

GioppY
- 3rd June 2007, 14:35
Thanks :D

Getting back to the clock for a moment - I've had it running for 24hrs so far and its gained 3 secs. Anyone have any thoughts on how to improve its accuracy?

Adjust the oscillator frequency! 3 sec/day means 34 ppm; that sounds reasonable for an unadjusted oscillator.
Or change the divisor rate from the nominal 31250/4096 to a value who meet the actual frequency.

Regards
Gianni

Dan Cata
- 3rd June 2007, 17:19
Dear Trent, can't you at least post a big rezolution picture of the circuit's pcb, of the logical part, not of the led's? 10q

magu
- 3rd June 2007, 19:51
The purpose of that LED is to give a visual indication that the PIC is indeed receiving data from the PC. It should toggle on/off with every byte received.
Initially, when the program button is pressed - the LED should be lit, assuming that the TX line from the PC to the PIC is idle (or not connected at all).

After the PIC receives its first byte - the LED should change states. Upon receiving the second, once again changing states. It should continue to do so until the PC has finished programming it. The LED is of little importance and the message that you program should begin to scroll automatically after successful download.

Then tell me a program with o can program the PIC...and tell me pls if it is a setting required when program the PIC

T.Jackson
- 4th June 2007, 03:21
Dear Trent, can't you at least post a big rezolution picture of the circuit's pcb, of the logical part, not of the led's? 10q

I HAVE posted a big picture of the PCB with more than adequate resolution. See post #15 http://www.picbasic.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1564&d=1177471027

T.Jackson
- 4th June 2007, 06:36
Check this out: http://www.symmttm.com/pdf/NYTimes_Time-on-Chip_09-30-04.pdf
Atomic clock has accuracy of +/- 1 sec over 30 million years.

T.Jackson
- 4th June 2007, 07:05
I've got some much better accuracy now. Not exactly sure how much - only time will "literally" tell!

Here's what I've done to improve things:

<ul>
<li>TMR0 pre-scaler remains @256</li>
<li>TRM0 always starts with 12 dec (256 x 244) = 62.464 mS</li>
<li>Now, it takes 16 overflows of the timer for 0.999424 S to elapse</li>
<li>This is short of 1 sec by 576 uS</li>
<li>Adding 36 nops to each overflow (36 x 16 = 576 uS) compensates this</li>
<li>The crystal now completely defines accuracy</li>
</ul>

magu
- 4th June 2007, 13:11
Look, I feel for you, believe me I do. I know how trying things can be when you're first starting out, I was once a beginner too! If you're that determine to do this project, then my best advice to you is to get some "real-World" help from someone. Or, alternatively, read a book on electronics and PICs. Put the project aside until you've got some considerable more knowledge under your belt. As I've said before, this isn't a simple straight forward project, unless you've got a PCB for it.
ok, i understand , now i have to make the pcb, connect the rez, cap, crystal, transiztors, then the pics (4017, 74hc08, eeprom), and then program the PIC and see if work...

T.Jackson
- 4th June 2007, 13:32
Why don't you put it off for a while - I'm actually planning on doing a KIT for a similar project to this. (Much, much better circuit that does more than just scroll a message) Plus, everything will mount on one large double sided through hole plated board w/silk screen printing on both sides. It will use 8 LED modules rather than the individual LEDs. Today I found a good source for low-cost PCBs. Basically, at the moment, Im in the "planing phase" of things with it, it'll be at least a year away, I need to save up some funds.

magu
- 4th June 2007, 15:50
Why don't you put it off for a while - I'm actually planning on doing a KIT for a similar project to this. (Much, much better circuit that does more than just scroll a message) Plus, everything will mount on one large double sided through hole plated board w/silk screen printing on both sides. It will use 8 LED modules rather than the individual LEDs. Today I found a good source for low-cost PCBs. Basically, at the moment, Im in the "planing phase" of things with it, it'll be at least a year away, I need to save up some funds.
today i`m making the pcb in orcad layout... and tomorow i will finish this pcb... then i see if it work or not...best regards...

Dan Cata
- 5th June 2007, 09:52
I HAVE posted a big picture of the PCB with more than adequate resolution. See post #15 http://www.picbasic.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1564&d=1177471027

I ment something more like this pic...

T.Jackson
- 5th June 2007, 10:44
Sorry - as I've said before, the PCB artwork isn't available.

magu
- 7th June 2007, 04:03
i made the pcb in orcad layout, but it doesen`t WORK !!! . Tell me the problems... plsssss. And the led should lit when the serials cable+ 5v cable is connected to the board or not? or when the 5v cable is connected?

On the link you can see the board... The caps than are not shown i have reposition them... the picture has made without them...

http://www.zamfirelu.org/led/fata.jpg

magu
- 11th June 2007, 20:21
I don't remember seeing any money back guarantees anywhere...I could be wrong. How much did you pay for this project?

And I built it over the weekend (although I simulated the bulk of the LEDs and left a couple of banks off), worked fine for me.
i spend over (in your currency) 30$ (american) . If you have orcad and layout i attach the files, the design of the board and the pcb. I examin the circuit over 14 times and i draw it good. If you can send me your pcb or design of the board it will be helpful.. thx..

fazan83
- 12th June 2007, 08:29
what ? : "?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????? ."

Magu I am also beginner....but I think you are asking something but you ask somtehing that too general and may be too hard for you to chew one shot.

Why not you create a simple flashing LEDs 1st.
Be familiar with with the PIC 1st. The Circuit and PIC Basic Pro Language 1st.

Then once successful you can start troubleshooting this project why not you try to always on all the row 1st and cascade the counter.
Just high all the Rows 1st.


TRISA = %00000000
TRISB = %10000000

'Variables...

ColPosition VAR BYTE
ClockColsCounter VAR PORTB.6
ROW1 VAR PORTA.2
ROW2 VAR PORTA.3
ROW3 VAR PORTB.4
ROW4 VAR PORTB.3
ROW5 VAR PORTB.0
ROW6 VAR PORTB.2
ROW7 VAR PORTB.1
ResetColsCounter VAR PORTB.5


'Reset 4017 counters
ResetColsCounter = 1
Pause 100
ResetColsCounter = 0

ROW1 = 0
ROW2 = 0
ROW3 = 0
ROW4 = 0
ROW5 = 0
ROW6 = 0
ROW7 = 0

Matchmode:
ColPosition=0
ROW1 = 1
ROW2 = 1
ROW3 = 1
ROW4 = 1
ROW5 = 1
ROW6 = 1
ROW7 = 1

CascadeCounter:
For ColPosition = 0 to 37
PULSOUT ClockColsCounter,100 'to create a PWM for 4017 counter clock
Next ColPosition

Goto Matchmode:
END

Do not think to fetch the data from the EEprom 1st.
By doing this you know that your circuit is ok. (power supply, micro and driver is ok)
Then you can start deal with the EEPROM.

Just Try a basic thing 1st once you verified the basic thing works then you go to the harder thing.

Nobody can help you if you just keep ask general thing why it doesn't work.

Pic_User
- 12th June 2007, 15:29
hear this. , mr trent give the scheme, the VB program, the hex for the PIC . All this should be ok... idon`t have do some tests if all the documentation is complete with the information. If you say to do tests then the HEX for the pic if broken. If you have build the board , you have program the PIc with the hex am plug it on the board and work... NO??? . No changes in the hex or anywhere else.
Hi Mr. Magu,

Welcome to the MELabs PICBASIC Forums.
We are a diverse group of people.
There are people of all levels of capability, and reasons to be members of this forum.
The common thread, in general, is PIC chips, PICBASIC (PBC) and PICBASIC Pro (PBP) code, and electronics related to the same.

Nobody is paid to moderate, read or reply to members posts.
There is no one assigned to solve problems.

Some of the members help greatly by posting projects and project ideas. Some, help by answering other member’s PBC or PBP questions. Mostly the knowledgeable members spend hours of their time answering thousands of questions. They do this without pay, without gain. Just to help each other out. I learn every day.

Skimask and Trent and the others have replied to your post repeatedly. The common reply to you is: Start smaller. Gain experience. Work your way up circuit complexity. Work your way up programming complexity. Gain an understanding of the process, and the method.

You don’t want to invest the time and effort. We understand you have invested a great amount of time, effort, energy, money, frustration. Because, you have “hardwired” the completed circuit, you are reluctant to test a piece of the circuit at a time. You would have to pull the completed project apart, or buy new duplicate parts. This is a real problem for you.

Fakhzan (fazan83), was nice enough to write special code for you, to help you, find the problem. He took the time to write the code, and explain the process, to start you on the “trouble shooting” process. This is a brilliant “way around” your dilemma. Test the finished project, with a custom testing program. Great idea Fakhzan!

If you would consider what these knowledgeable, engineering professionals would receive in compensation (pay) for the same number of hours consulting or engineering. These people have invested more into answering your questions, for your project. They don’t have a problem. You have a problem. Demanding that others answer your problems, while refusing to even try any of the suggestions, shows that you, obviously have no idea how this great forum works.

So my suggestion to you:
Start smaller.
Gain experience.
Work your way up circuit complexity.
Work your way up programming complexity.
Gain an understanding of the process, and the method.
Added:
Gain an understanding of the forum, and how it works.
Read previous posts, for hours.

The main problem seems to be, you are one project oriented, and focused. The forum is focused on always learning a little more then we already know. Step by step, never giant jumps in knowledge. Build projects a little more complex each time.

If you wanted a scrolling LED sign that works “right out of the gate”, you should have just bought the commercial, finished product, that Trent linked to. That is not what the forum is all about.

If the project worked for Trent and others, it is impossible for anyone, to just tell you why your project is having trouble. You are the doctor with the patient. If you built it. If you programmed it. You must “trouble shoot” it. Refusing to consider helpful suggestions, demanding help, is not the correct path.

We are sorry that your project is causing you pain. I think most of us have been there, “a project too far”. A project that was too big for our experience. When it didn’t perform, we had no idea what to do. A costly mistake in time and money, but a lesson learned. Then, we can come to the forum, with advice for others, to not do the same.

-Adam-

magu
- 12th June 2007, 15:44
i have a relativy simple question about the montage of the board. The ELECTRO CAPS where do i have to place them?

magu
- 12th June 2007, 15:47
and for those who had build the proj and it work. I think the HEX is incorrectly. do you program the PIc plug it on the board, next plug the eeprom and start.? there are ben no problems?

magu
- 16th June 2007, 11:34
<img src="http://www.picbasic.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1747&stc=1&d=1181984566" align="left"> Cheaters only fool themselves. Teachers aren't stupid - when a student submits an assignment that significantly shines above their known capabilities, all sorts of alarm bells would ring.

If I hear about people submitting my work as their own ... <h2><pre style = "color: red"> Watch out!</pre></h2>

i use your artwork for the proj. So don`t wory.

Luciano
- 16th June 2007, 14:37
Hi Magu,

I got your private message.

We will test the board based on these schematics and pictures:

Display Schematic.pdf (Post #1 of this thread).
Controller Schematic.pdf (Post #1 of this thread).
Your picture lm.jpg

In this post we will test the 245 LEDs and all the transistors.

Before we test the LEDs:


Remove all the ICs from their sockets with the exception of the
5V regulator 7805 which must remain soldered on the PCB.
(Put the ICs into antistatic bags).

Replace the seven 18 ohm resistors with seven 180 ohm resistors.
(See Display Schematic.pdf). This step is mandatory!!!!!!!!!

Solder two insulated wires (about 50 cm each) to +5V and at the
other end of the wire solder a 1k (1000 ohm) resistor.

+5v-----------------------------/\/\/\-- (P1)
(50 cm insulated wire) 1k resistor.


+5v-----------------------------/\/\/\-- (P2)
(50 cm insulated wire) 1k resistor.

The end of the first resistor will be called "P1" in the
instructions I will post in this thread. So put a label
on that resistor and write on it "P1". Do the same for the
second wire and write "P2" on the label.





TEST 1

T1/Step 1:

Apply 12V DC to the input of the voltage regulator and measure
the voltage on its output which should be between 4.9 and 5.1V.




TEST 2

T2/Step 1:

All the ICs must be removed from the sockets, with the exception of
the 5V voltage regulator. The seven 18 ohm resistors must be replaced
with 180 ohm resistors.

In TEST 2 will will test all the LEDs driven by ROW1.

Connect P1 to the socket IC1/PIN1 (ROW1).

T2/Step 2: Connect P2 to the socket IC7/PIN7 (COL35),verify the LED.
T2/Step 3: Connect P2 to the socket IC7/PIN4 (COL34),verify the LED.
T2/Step 4: Connect P2 to the socket IC7/PIN2 (COL33),verify the LED.

T2/Step 5: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN9 (COL32),verify the LED.
T2/Step 6: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN6 (COL31),verify the LED.
T2/Step 7: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN5 (COL30),verify the LED.
T2/Step 8: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN1 (COL29),verify the LED.
T2/Step 9: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN10 (COL28),verify the LED.
T2/Step 10: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN7 (COL27),verify the LED.
T2/Step 11: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN4 (COL26),verify the LED.
T2/Step 12: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN2 (COL25),verify the LED.

T2/Step 13: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN9 (COL24),verify the LED.
T2/Step 14: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN6 (COL23),verify the LED.
T2/Step 15: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN5 (COL22),verify the LED.
T2/Step 16: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN1 (COL21),verify the LED.
T2/Step 17: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN10 (COL20),verify the LED.
T2/Step 18: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN7 (COL19),verify the LED.
T2/Step 19: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN4 (COL18),verify the LED.
T2/Step 20: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN2 (COL17),verify the LED.

T2/Step 21: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN9 (COL16),verify the LED.
T2/Step 22: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN6 (COL15),verify the LED.
T2/Step 23: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN5 (COL14),verify the LED.
T2/Step 24: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN1 (COL13),verify the LED.
T2/Step 25: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN10 (COL12),verify the LED.
T2/Step 26: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN7 (COL11),verify the LED.
T2/Step 27: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN4 (COL10),verify the LED.
T2/Step 28: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN2 (COL9),verify the LED.

T2/Step 29: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN9 (COL8),verify the LED.
T2/Step 30: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN6 (COL7),verify the LED.
T2/Step 31: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN5 (COL6),verify the LED.
T2/Step 32: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN1 (COL5),verify the LED.
T2/Step 33: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN10 (COL4),verify the LED.
T2/Step 34: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN7 (COL3),verify the LED.
T2/Step 35: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN4 (COL2),verify the LED.
T2/Step 36: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN2 (COL1),verify the LED.



TEST 3

T3/Step 1:

All the ICs must be removed from the sockets, with the exception of
the 5V voltage regulator. The seven 18 ohm resistors must be replaced
with 180 ohm resistors.

In TEST 3 will will test all the LEDs driven by ROW2.

Connect P1 to the socket IC1/PIN2 (ROW2).

T3/Step 2: Connect P2 to the socket IC7/PIN7 (COL35),verify the LED.
T3/Step 3: Connect P2 to the socket IC7/PIN4 (COL34),verify the LED.
T3/Step 4: Connect P2 to the socket IC7/PIN2 (COL33),verify the LED.

T3/Step 5: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN9 (COL32),verify the LED.
T3/Step 6: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN6 (COL31),verify the LED.
T3/Step 7: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN5 (COL30),verify the LED.
T3/Step 8: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN1 (COL29),verify the LED.
T3/Step 9: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN10 (COL28),verify the LED.
T3/Step 10: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN7 (COL27),verify the LED.
T3/Step 11: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN4 (COL26),verify the LED.
T3/Step 12: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN2 (COL25),verify the LED.

T3/Step 13: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN9 (COL24),verify the LED.
T3/Step 14: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN6 (COL23),verify the LED.
T3/Step 15: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN5 (COL22),verify the LED.
T3/Step 16: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN1 (COL21),verify the LED.
T3/Step 17: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN10 (COL20),verify the LED.
T3/Step 18: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN7 (COL19),verify the LED.
T3/Step 19: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN4 (COL18),verify the LED.
T3/Step 20: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN2 (COL17),verify the LED.

T3/Step 21: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN9 (COL16),verify the LED.
T3/Step 22: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN6 (COL15),verify the LED.
T3/Step 23: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN5 (COL14),verify the LED.
T3/Step 24: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN1 (COL13),verify the LED.
T3/Step 25: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN10 (COL12),verify the LED.
T3/Step 26: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN7 (COL11),verify the LED.
T3/Step 27: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN4 (COL10),verify the LED.
T3/Step 28: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN2 (COL9),verify the LED.

T3/Step 29: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN9 (COL8),verify the LED.
T3/Step 30: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN6 (COL7),verify the LED.
T3/Step 31: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN5 (COL6),verify the LED.
T3/Step 32: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN1 (COL5),verify the LED.
T3/Step 33: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN10 (COL4),verify the LED.
T3/Step 34: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN7 (COL3),verify the LED.
T3/Step 35: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN4 (COL2),verify the LED.
T3/Step 36: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN2 (COL1),verify the LED.


The text was too large for one post. See next two posts for the rest of
the LEDs test.

Luciano
- 16th June 2007, 14:39
This is the rest of the LEDs test.


TEST 4

T4/Step 1:

All the ICs must be removed from the sockets, with the exception of
the 5V voltage regulator. The seven 18 ohm resistors must be replaced
with 180 ohm resistors.

In TEST 4 will will test all the LEDs driven by ROW3.

Connect P1 to the socket IC1/PIN10 (ROW3).

T4/Step 2: Connect P2 to the socket IC7/PIN7 (COL35),verify the LED.
T4/Step 3: Connect P2 to the socket IC7/PIN4 (COL34),verify the LED.
T4/Step 4: Connect P2 to the socket IC7/PIN2 (COL33),verify the LED.

T4/Step 5: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN9 (COL32),verify the LED.
T4/Step 6: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN6 (COL31),verify the LED.
T4/Step 7: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN5 (COL30),verify the LED.
T4/Step 8: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN1 (COL29),verify the LED.
T4/Step 9: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN10 (COL28),verify the LED.
T4/Step 10: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN7 (COL27),verify the LED.
T4/Step 11: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN4 (COL26),verify the LED.
T4/Step 12: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN2 (COL25),verify the LED.

T4/Step 13: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN9 (COL24),verify the LED.
T4/Step 14: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN6 (COL23),verify the LED.
T4/Step 15: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN5 (COL22),verify the LED.
T4/Step 16: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN1 (COL21),verify the LED.
T4/Step 17: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN10 (COL20),verify the LED.
T4/Step 18: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN7 (COL19),verify the LED.
T4/Step 19: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN4 (COL18),verify the LED.
T4/Step 20: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN2 (COL17),verify the LED.

T4/Step 21: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN9 (COL16),verify the LED.
T4/Step 22: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN6 (COL15),verify the LED.
T4/Step 23: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN5 (COL14),verify the LED.
T4/Step 24: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN1 (COL13),verify the LED.
T4/Step 25: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN10 (COL12),verify the LED.
T4/Step 26: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN7 (COL11),verify the LED.
T4/Step 27: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN4 (COL10),verify the LED.
T4/Step 28: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN2 (COL9),verify the LED.

T4/Step 29: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN9 (COL8),verify the LED.
T4/Step 30: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN6 (COL7),verify the LED.
T4/Step 31: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN5 (COL6),verify the LED.
T4/Step 32: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN1 (COL5),verify the LED.
T4/Step 33: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN10 (COL4),verify the LED.
T4/Step 34: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN7 (COL3),verify the LED.
T4/Step 35: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN4 (COL2),verify the LED.
T4/Step 36: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN2 (COL1),verify the LED.



TEST 5

T5/Step 1:

All the ICs must be removed from the sockets, with the exception of
the 5V voltage regulator. The seven 18 ohm resistors must be replaced
with 180 ohm resistors.

In TEST 5 will will test all the LEDs driven by ROW4.

Connect P1 to the socket IC1/PIN9 (ROW4).

T5/Step 2: Connect P2 to the socket IC7/PIN7 (COL35),verify the LED.
T5/Step 3: Connect P2 to the socket IC7/PIN4 (COL34),verify the LED.
T5/Step 4: Connect P2 to the socket IC7/PIN2 (COL33),verify the LED.

T5/Step 5: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN9 (COL32),verify the LED.
T5/Step 6: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN6 (COL31),verify the LED.
T5/Step 7: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN5 (COL30),verify the LED.
T5/Step 8: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN1 (COL29),verify the LED.
T5/Step 9: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN10 (COL28),verify the LED.
T5/Step 10: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN7 (COL27),verify the LED.
T5/Step 11: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN4 (COL26),verify the LED.
T5/Step 12: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN2 (COL25),verify the LED.

T5/Step 13: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN9 (COL24),verify the LED.
T5/Step 14: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN6 (COL23),verify the LED.
T5/Step 15: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN5 (COL22),verify the LED.
T5/Step 16: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN1 (COL21),verify the LED.
T5/Step 17: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN10 (COL20),verify the LED.
T5/Step 18: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN7 (COL19),verify the LED.
T5/Step 19: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN4 (COL18),verify the LED.
T5/Step 20: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN2 (COL17),verify the LED.

T5/Step 21: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN9 (COL16),verify the LED.
T5/Step 22: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN6 (COL15),verify the LED.
T5/Step 23: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN5 (COL14),verify the LED.
T5/Step 24: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN1 (COL13),verify the LED.
T5/Step 25: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN10 (COL12),verify the LED.
T5/Step 26: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN7 (COL11),verify the LED.
T5/Step 27: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN4 (COL10),verify the LED.
T5/Step 28: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN2 (COL9),verify the LED.

T5/Step 29: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN9 (COL8),verify the LED.
T5/Step 30: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN6 (COL7),verify the LED.
T5/Step 31: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN5 (COL6),verify the LED.
T5/Step 32: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN1 (COL5),verify the LED.
T5/Step 33: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN10 (COL4),verify the LED.
T5/Step 34: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN7 (COL3),verify the LED.
T5/Step 35: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN4 (COL2),verify the LED.
T5/Step 36: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN2 (COL1),verify the LED.


TEST 6

T6/Step 1:

All the ICs must be removed from the sockets, with the exception of
the 5V voltage regulator. The seven 18 ohm resistors must be replaced
with 180 ohm resistors.

In TEST 6 will will test all the LEDs driven by ROW5.

Connect P1 to the socket IC1/PIN6 (ROW5).

T6/Step 2: Connect P2 to the socket IC7/PIN7 (COL35),verify the LED.
T6/Step 3: Connect P2 to the socket IC7/PIN4 (COL34),verify the LED.
T6/Step 4: Connect P2 to the socket IC7/PIN2 (COL33),verify the LED.

T6/Step 5: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN9 (COL32),verify the LED.
T6/Step 6: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN6 (COL31),verify the LED.
T6/Step 7: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN5 (COL30),verify the LED.
T6/Step 8: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN1 (COL29),verify the LED.
T6/Step 9: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN10 (COL28),verify the LED.
T6/Step 10: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN7 (COL27),verify the LED.
T6/Step 11: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN4 (COL26),verify the LED.
T6/Step 12: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN2 (COL25),verify the LED.

T6/Step 13: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN9 (COL24),verify the LED.
T6/Step 14: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN6 (COL23),verify the LED.
T6/Step 15: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN5 (COL22),verify the LED.
T6/Step 16: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN1 (COL21),verify the LED.
T6/Step 17: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN10 (COL20),verify the LED.
T6/Step 18: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN7 (COL19),verify the LED.
T6/Step 19: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN4 (COL18),verify the LED.
T6/Step 20: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN2 (COL17),verify the LED.

T6/Step 21: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN9 (COL16),verify the LED.
T6/Step 22: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN6 (COL15),verify the LED.
T6/Step 23: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN5 (COL14),verify the LED.
T6/Step 24: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN1 (COL13),verify the LED.
T6/Step 25: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN10 (COL12),verify the LED.
T6/Step 26: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN7 (COL11),verify the LED.
T6/Step 27: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN4 (COL10),verify the LED.
T6/Step 28: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN2 (COL9),verify the LED.

T6/Step 29: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN9 (COL8),verify the LED.
T6/Step 30: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN6 (COL7),verify the LED.
T6/Step 31: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN5 (COL6),verify the LED.
T6/Step 32: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN1 (COL5),verify the LED.
T6/Step 33: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN10 (COL4),verify the LED.
T6/Step 34: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN7 (COL3),verify the LED.
T6/Step 35: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN4 (COL2),verify the LED.
T6/Step 36: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN2 (COL1),verify the LED.

Luciano
- 16th June 2007, 14:40
This is the last post about the LEds test.

TEST 7

T7/Step 1:

All the ICs must be removed from the sockets, with the exception of
the 5V voltage regulator. The seven 18 ohm resistors must be replaced
with 180 ohm resistors.

In TEST 7 will will test all the LEDs driven by ROW6.

Connect P1 to the socket IC1/PIN8 (ROW6).

T7/Step2: Connect P2 to the socket IC7/PIN7 (COL35),verify the LED.
T7/Step3: Connect P2 to the socket IC7/PIN4 (COL34),verify the LED.
T7/Step4: Connect P2 to the socket IC7/PIN2 (COL33),verify the LED.

T7/Step 5: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN9 (COL32),verify the LED.
T7/Step 6: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN6 (COL31),verify the LED.
T7/Step 7: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN5 (COL30),verify the LED.
T7/Step 8: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN1 (COL29),verify the LED.
T7/Step 9: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN10 (COL28),verify the LED.
T7/Step 10: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN7 (COL27),verify the LED.
T7/Step 11: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN4 (COL26),verify the LED.
T7/Step 12: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN2 (COL25),verify the LED.

T7/Step 13: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN9 (COL24),verify the LED.
T7/Step 14: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN6 (COL23),verify the LED.
T7/Step 15: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN5 (COL22),verify the LED.
T7/Step 16: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN1 (COL21),verify the LED.
T7/Step 17: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN10 (COL20),verify the LED.
T7/Step 18: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN7 (COL19),verify the LED.
T7/Step 19: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN4 (COL18),verify the LED.
T7/Step 20: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN2 (COL17),verify the LED.

T7/Step 21: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN9 (COL16),verify the LED.
T7/Step 22: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN6 (COL15),verify the LED.
T7/Step 23: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN5 (COL14),verify the LED.
T7/Step 24: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN1 (COL13),verify the LED.
T7/Step 25: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN10 (COL12),verify the LED.
T7/Step 26: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN7 (COL11),verify the LED.
T7/Step 27: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN4 (COL10),verify the LED.
T7/Step 28: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN2 (COL9),verify the LED.

T7/Step 29: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN9 (COL8),verify the LED.
T7/Step 30: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN6 (COL7),verify the LED.
T7/Step 31: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN5 (COL6),verify the LED.
T7/Step 32: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN1 (COL5),verify the LED.
T7/Step 33: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN10 (COL4),verify the LED.
T7/Step 34: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN7 (COL3),verify the LED.
T7/Step 35: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN4 (COL2),verify the LED.
T7/Step 36: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN2 (COL1),verify the LED.



TEST 8

T8/Step 1:

All the ICs must be removed from the sockets, with the exception of
the 5V voltage regulator. The seven 18 ohm resistors must be replaced
with 180 ohm resistors.

In TEST 8 will will test all the LEDs driven by ROW7.

Connect P1 to the socket IC1/PIN7 (ROW7).

T8/Step2: Connect P2 to the socket IC7/PIN7 (COL35),verify the LED.
T8/Step3: Connect P2 to the socket IC7/PIN4 (COL34),verify the LED.
T8/Step4: Connect P2 to the socket IC7/PIN2 (COL33),verify the LED.

T8/Step 5: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN9 (COL32),verify the LED.
T8/Step 6: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN6 (COL31),verify the LED.
T8/Step 7: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN5 (COL30),verify the LED.
T8/Step 8: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN1 (COL29),verify the LED.
T8/Step 9: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN10 (COL28),verify the LED.
T8/Step 10: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN7 (COL27),verify the LED.
T8/Step 11: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN4 (COL26),verify the LED.
T8/Step 12: Connect P2 to the socket IC6/PIN2 (COL25),verify the LED.

T8/Step 13: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN9 (COL24),verify the LED.
T8/Step 14: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN6 (COL23),verify the LED.
T8/Step 15: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN5 (COL22),verify the LED.
T8/Step 16: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN1 (COL21),verify the LED.
T8/Step 17: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN10 (COL20),verify the LED.
T8/Step 18: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN7 (COL19),verify the LED.
T8/Step 19: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN4 (COL18),verify the LED.
T8/Step 20: Connect P2 to the socket IC5/PIN2 (COL17),verify the LED.

T8/Step 21: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN9 (COL16),verify the LED.
T8/Step 22: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN6 (COL15),verify the LED.
T8/Step 23: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN5 (COL14),verify the LED.
T8/Step 24: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN1 (COL13),verify the LED.
T8/Step 25: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN10 (COL12),verify the LED.
T8/Step 26: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN7 (COL11),verify the LED.
T8/Step 27: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN4 (COL10),verify the LED.
T8/Step 28: Connect P2 to the socket IC4/PIN2 (COL9),verify the LED.

T8/Step 29: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN9 (COL8),verify the LED.
T8/Step 30: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN6 (COL7),verify the LED.
T8/Step 31: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN5 (COL6),verify the LED.
T8/Step 32: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN1 (COL5),verify the LED.
T8/Step 33: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN10 (COL4),verify the LED.
T8/Step 34: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN7 (COL3),verify the LED.
T8/Step 35: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN4 (COL2),verify the LED.
T8/Step 36: Connect P2 to the socket IC3/PIN2 (COL1),verify the LED.


Once you have tested the 245 LEDs, post the results.

Best regards,

Luciano

Pic_User
- 16th June 2007, 14:52
Have you noticed that the “one project”, posters.
Whether or not they are students like eng444, AlaskanEE or Magu, or the multiple personalities building a DMX512.
Want specifically their project. Not general answers, not how to proceed, but precisely what is exactly wrong with this single project.

As Skimask has said (many times):

You would think:
Anyone who has sat in classes hour upon hour, day after day, year upon year. A student that has spent hours learning in labs. A student that has spent night after night studying for exams, passing those exams. Learning “state of the art” for years.
Paying many years of income, to professional instructors, that are not only specialists in the industry, but at a pinnacle of expertise to profess knowledge exactly on the subject.

A student, that will be stepping out of the door into a world of professionals. Ready in every way to become a highly paid professional.

You would think:
Those students, doing their final project, would know how to conceive, design, build and “trouble shoot” a simple project.

However:
There are a certain few, that have sat in class rooms for years. Spoon fed everything they need for the exams. Told what chapter, what material will be on the exam, so they could study from this paragraph to that paragraph. Led by the hand to lab. Told where to place the test leads, how much to turn the controls, what the instrument’s indications meant. Mostly their questions were, “is this going to be on the exam?” or “can I copy your home work?” or “what did you get for number 4”.

When they get to the forum, they expect specific instructions, precisely when they want / need it. They expect a “lesson plan”. When they sense a “dragging of the feet”, they get belligerent, rude, and demand that the “instructors” give them the information. The forum seems filled with the worst instructors they have ever paid for.

I don’t know how they could do all the school work, without a love of learning, a love of technology. They have my admiration for their tenacity. That is a huge pile of work that they “toughed out” and “plowed through”, so they can work in a field they don’t care about.

To use a project directly, “as is”, without significant improvement, modifications, is the height of dishonesty. Without proper credit given to the “seed idea” fully revealed, and disclosed is stealing. Intellectual property is property. Any student that would do such a thing, didn’t learn in the “professional ethics” class either.

These projects are so far over the ability of the this type student, they do not have the ability to know how any part of it works. This makes it impossible to figure out what is wrong. The same is true of their conduct in the forum, and in life. I feel sorry for the company that makes the mistake of hiring them.

Shame
-Adam-

magu
- 16th June 2007, 16:14
ok. i`ve check it. i have dificulties with 6 led, but i resolve the problem. It`s work excelent. Next step?

keithdoxey
- 16th June 2007, 17:39
Led by the hand to lab. Told where to place the test leads, how much to turn the controls, what the instrument’s indications meant.

Perhaps this is an attempt to avoid being sued under Health and Safety legislation. They tell them exactly where to place the leads so they dont blow themselves up.

Some of us had to learn that the hard way but we survived :)

Luciano
- 16th June 2007, 17:39
Hi Magu,

For the next test you will need a signal generator.
(5V square wave of about 1.5 Hz).

If you don't have a signal generator, build this circuit:
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/2740/pulsegenerkq5.th.png (http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/2740/pulsegenerkq5.png)
(Click to enlarge the picture).

Let me know when you have the square wave signal ready.

Best regards,

Luciano

keithdoxey
- 16th June 2007, 17:40
ok. i`ve check it. i have dificulties with 6 led, but i resolve the problem. It`s work excelent. Next step?

Get the other 239 LEDs to work LOL :) :)

magu
- 16th June 2007, 19:35
Hi Magu,

For the next test you will need a signal generator.
(5V square wave of about 1.5 Hz).

If you don't have a signal generator, build this circuit:
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/2740/pulsegenerkq5.th.png (http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/2740/pulsegenerkq5.png)
(Click to enlarge the picture).

Let me know when you have the square wave signal ready.

Best regards,

Luciano


ok Luciano, i build the circuit. The led Blinks. NEXT? (What do i have to test with this circuit?)

Luciano
- 16th June 2007, 21:12
Hi Magu,

In my opinion in the schematic posted by Trent there is a mistake.
(Controller Schematic.pdf attached to the first post of this thread).
See my comments in the picture below.

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/368/4017resetft7.th.png (http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/368/4017resetft7.png)
(Click to enlarge the picture).

* * *

In this test we are going to use your new pulse generator.
Make sure you are still using the seven 180 ohm resistors for this test.

Plug into their sockets these chips:

IC3 (CD4017)
IC4 (CD4017)
IC5 (CD4017)
IC6 (CD4017)
IC9 (74HC08)


These chips are not present during this test:

IC1 (The PIC)
IC7 (The last CD4017)
IC8 (The EEPROM)

**********************

TEST

Step 1: Connect our wire "P1" to the socket IC1 PIN 1. (ROW1)
Step 2: Permanently connect to GND via a 1k series resistor PIN 3 of the socket IC7.
Step 3: Connect the 1.5 Hz clock from the 555 to to the socket IC1 PIN 12 via a 1k series resistor.
Step 4: Power-on the circuit.
Step 5: Briefly connect our wire "P2" to the socket IC1 PIN 11. This will reset the CD4017 chips.
Now you should see ONE LED moving across the display ONCE.

Step 6: Power down the circuit.

Do the same test for ROW2, ROW3, ROW4, ROW5, ROW6 and ROW7. (Move our wire "P1").

* * *

Now power down the circuit and plug into the socket the IC7. (CD4017).
Remove from socket IC7 PIN 3 the 1k resistor to GND. (The above step 2).
Repeat the test again. What do you see?

Best regards,

Luciano

magu
- 17th June 2007, 00:03
nothing happens. i don`t see anything. when the ic7 is unpluged and the pin3 is connected to the ground LED moving across the display ONCE except the last 3 leds that are connected to the ic7. But when the ic7 in pluged nothing appears even when i thouch the p2 to ic1 pin11

magu
- 17th June 2007, 00:19
i connect the IC3(pin15) to ic7(pin 10) and the LED is moving across the display NOT ONCE but CONTINUOS.

Dan Cata
- 17th June 2007, 04:02
Some people have already built the circuit and it runs just fine for them; i don't think there is a mistake in the schematic and i can't wait for Trent to reply and see what he has to say about this. (i apologise for my bag english)

T.Jackson
- 17th June 2007, 08:17
Luciano is correct. There is an error on the schematic that shows Q0 instead of Q4 of IC7 connecting to the MR (master reset line) of IC3.

skimask
- 17th June 2007, 08:29
Luciano is correct. There is an error on the schematic that shows Q0 instead of Q4 of IC7 connecting to the MR (master reset line) of IC3.

...which might explain why it worked for me.
I only built a portion of this project using only the first 4017. I 'simulated' the rest of the 4017's using some glue logic, specifically, a PIC setup to pick off the clock pulses into the timer on the PIC and generate a reset pulse after it got to the last column.

Dan Cata
- 17th June 2007, 09:17
So Trent, you say the circuit works just fine for you, but the schematic posted was wrong... did you mistake on purpose? Were we suposed to guess the error in it? I also build the circuit and it runs for me until the LED flashing part, now i can see it all so clearly why :)...

Luciano
- 17th June 2007, 09:47
Hi,

I don't think so. The PDF file with the schematic is probably just
a version made for the publication in a magazine so this is probably
not the original schematic use by Trent to make his prototype PCB.

* * *

@ skimask: Less arrogance, more humility!


Best regards,

Luciano

Dan Cata
- 17th June 2007, 09:51
How about re-doing the scheme and posting it again, in the first post, if that is possible... , so that anyone trying to build it doesn't face the same problem; maybe they don't read the whole 3 pages of posts to see that there is a problem with it!

Dan Cata
- 17th June 2007, 09:58
But you can see clearly that the pdf is a print from OrCad or something that the circuit was made, so it has to be the one that the pcb was made of!

magu
- 17th June 2007, 11:10
next step luciano?

T.Jackson
- 17th June 2007, 11:40
That's right. I normally start off with something roughly hand drawn, sometimes nothing on paper at all - working directly off the top of my head, build a prototype then proceed to document it.

Luciano
- 17th June 2007, 11:57
Hi Magu,

For now use the seven 180 ohm resistors while testing.
You will replace these resistors with the original 18 ohm
resistors when the system works.

While testing with the 180 ohm resistors:

Once the LEDs are driven by the PIC it might be that, in order
to see the LEDs, you will have to reduce the light in the room
where you are testing. This will not be necessary once you replace
the 180 ohm resistors with the original 18 ohm resistors.

* * *

Modify your PCB, connect the pin 15 of IC3 to the
pin 10 of IC7 via the 100k series resistor which is already
present on the schematic.

Place a 100nF capacitor close to each IC present on the circuit.
This capacitor is connected to the pins VDD and GND of the IC.
This capacitor must be close to the ICs. (Max. 10mm).

Program the microcontroller with the HEX file posted by Trent in
the first post of this thread.

Plug all the ICs in their sockets. Follow the instructions posted
by Trent. Power on the board and the circuit should work.


Best regards,

Luciano

magu
- 17th June 2007, 13:02
Hi Magu,

For now use the seven 180 ohm resistors while testing.
You will replace these resistors with the original 18 ohm
resistors when the system works.

While testing with the 180 ohm resistors:

Once the LEDs are driven by the PIC it might be that, in order
to see the LEDs, you will have to reduce the light in the room
where you are testing. This will not be necessary once you replace
the 180 ohm resistors with the original 18 ohm resistors.

* * *

Modify your PCB, connect the pin 15 of IC3 to the
pin 10 of IC7 via the 100k series resistor which is already
present on the schematic.

Place a 100nF capacitor close to each IC present on the circuit.
This capacitor is connected to the pins VDD and GND of the IC.
This capacitor must be close to the ICs. (Max. 10mm).

Program the microcontroller with the HEX file posted by Trent in
the first post of this thread.

Plug all the ICs in their sockets. Follow the instructions posted
by Trent. Power on the board and the circuit should work.


Best regards,

Luciano

it dosen`t work. i program the pic with ICPROG (plug the programer in serial port, open hex file, -> PRogram all)
. these is a picture of the board with all the components included the caps. http://www.zamfirelu.org/led/board.jpg

Luciano
- 17th June 2007, 13:14
Hi Magu,

Remove the jumper "program". Do not use a jumper, use a push button.

Best regards,

Luciano

magu
- 17th June 2007, 13:24
Hi Magu,

Remove the jumper "program". Do not use a jumper, use a push button.

Best regards,

Luciano

i remove the jumper i i use a push button but doesen`t work. when i push the button the led light but doesen`t remain lighting.

T.Jackson
- 17th June 2007, 13:45
What config fuses do you have set?

magu
- 17th June 2007, 13:48
What config fuses do you have set?


OSCILATOR : XT , FUses: wdt, pwrt, mclr, boden.

Luciano
- 17th June 2007, 14:26
Hi Magu,

Disconnect the serial cable from the board.

The RX LED1 must stay ON after you release the push button "Program".
If the LED1 does not stay ON after you release the push button "Program",
then the program is not running in the PIC.

Note that when the serial cable is connected to the board, and you press
the "Program" push button, the LED will stay ON until the first 4 bytes are
received. (Until you press the button "Program Message To The Display EEPROM"
in the VB Application). After that the first 4 bytes are received, the LED is
toggled and will be toggled again after the next 4 bytes are received continuing
in the same way until the last byte of the message is received. So the LED is
blinking while receiving the data from the PC.

Again, with the serial cable disconnected, the RX LED1 must stay ON after you
release the push button "Program". If not, then the program is not running in the PIC.

Trent, can you please confirm my last sentence?

Best regards,

Luciano

magu
- 17th June 2007, 14:32
Hi Magu,

Disconnect the serial cable from the board.

The RX LED1 must stay ON after you release the push button "Program".
If the LED1 does not stay ON after you release the push button "Program",
then the program is not running in the PIC.

Note that when the serial cable is connected to the board, and you press
the "Program" push button, the LED will stay ON until the first 4 bytes are
received. (Until you press the button "Program Message To The Display EEPROM"
in the VB Application). After that the first 4 bytes are received, the LED is
toggled and will be toggled again after the next 4 bytes are received continuing
in the same way until the last byte of the message is received. So the LED is
blinking while receiving the data from the PC.

Again, with the serial cable disconnected, the RX LED1 must stay ON after you
release the push button "Program". If not, then the program is not running in the PIC.

Trent, can you please confirm my last sentence?

Best regards,

Luciano


what should i do in this situation, that the led doesen`t stay lit.?

Dan Cata
- 17th June 2007, 14:39
maybe i am wrong, but when i load the .hex file in icprog, the oscilator is set to XT, but the datasheet from http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/devicedoc/40044b.pdf on page 97 says that for a 10Mhz oscilator, one should use HS. Am i wrong? Is the watch dog timer really necessary here? 10q

T.Jackson
- 17th June 2007, 14:46
Hi Magu,

Disconnect the serial cable from the board.

The RX LED1 must stay ON after you release the push button "Program".
If the LED1 does not stay ON after you release the push button "Program",
then the program is not running in the PIC.

Note that when the serial cable is connected to the board, and you press
the "Program" push button, the LED will stay ON until the first 4 bytes are
received. (Until you press the button "Program Message To The Display EEPROM"
in the VB Application). After that the first 4 bytes are received, the LED is
toggled and will be toggled again after the next 4 bytes are received continuing
in the same way until the last byte of the message is received. So the LED is
blinking while receiving the data from the PC.

Again, with the serial cable disconnected, the RX LED1 must stay ON after you
release the push button "Program". If not, then the program is not running in the PIC.

Trent, can you please confirm my last sentence?

Best regards,

Luciano

Luciano, I can confirm that, everything you've posted thus far is spot on. If I were you I wouldn't waste my time with this anymore - these guys are having a lend of us. I'm not responding to this thread anymore, I have far better things to do.

Luciano
- 17th June 2007, 16:03
Hi Magu,

Yes, with a 10MHz crystal you must use HS.
The Watchdog Timer should be set to ON for PicBasic Pro programs.

* * *

What you can do:

If you have an oscilloscope you can test if the 10MHz crystal oscillator
is working. (Connect the oscilloscope probe to the PIN 15 OSC2/CLKOUT).

Also possible:

Remove all the ICs from the board with the exception of the PIC.

Program the PIC with a program that will make the LED1 on RA4 blink.
You will have to write a program yourself or find someone willing to do it for you.
(Note that you can use any programming language). Program the PIC with the HEX
file you get after compiling your program. Once you get to "blink LED1 program" running,
try again to program the PIC with the HEX file posted by Trent.

I don't use PIC microcontrollers so I cannot help you further.

Best regards,

Luciano

magu
- 17th June 2007, 19:00
Hi Magu,

Yes, with a 10MHz crystal you must use HS.
The Watchdog Timer should be set to ON for PicBasic Pro programs.

* * *

What you can do:

If you have an oscilloscope you can test if the 10MHz crystal oscillator
is working. (Connect the oscilloscope probe to the PIN 15 OSC2/CLKOUT).

Also possible:

Remove all the ICs from the board with the exception of the PIC.

Program the PIC with a program that will make the LED1 on RA4 blink.
You will have to write a program yourself or find someone willing to do it for you.
(Note that you can use any programming language). Program the PIC with the HEX
file you get after compiling your program. Once you get to "blink LED1 program" running,
try again to program the PIC with the HEX file posted by Trent.

I don't use PIC microcontrollers so I cannot help you further.

Best regards,

Luciano

I don`t have PicBasic Compiler, it`s cost a lots of money. There it`s Another way to solve this problem ? .
I have realize when do i connect the the power wire without the serial wire, i press the program button, the led stay lit, but in 5-6 sec stops, and then again stay lit and on the led display the fisrt led on first ROW and seond ROW are lit. something is wrong.... but i don`t know what...

skimask
- 17th June 2007, 19:59
I don`t have PicBasic Compiler, it`s cost a lots of money.
WTF?
Download MPLAB and learn assembly...or I'll bet that the PBP demo would work for this...or not...

Pic_User
- 17th June 2007, 20:58
..or I'll bet that the PBP demo would work for this...or not...

The PBP demo would work to program enough of a program to test a row or column then the next row or column. A good avenue suggested by fazan83.


Magu I am also beginner.... ...but you ask something that too general and may be too hard for you to chew one shot.
...Then once successful you can start troubleshooting this project why not you try to always on all the row 1st and cascade the counter.

...By doing this you know that your circuit is ok. (power supply, micro and driver is ok)
Then you can start deal with the EEPROM.

Just Try a basic thing 1st once you verified the basic thing works then you go to the harder thing.

Nobody can help you if you just keep ask general thing why it doesn't work.


hear this.... I don’t have do some tests..... No changes in the hex or anywhere else.


I don’t have PicBasic Compiler, it’s cost a lots of money. There it’s Another way to solve this problem ?...
Please read posts from Eng4444 (I sure miss him)


... the schematic posted was wrong... did you mistake on purpose? Were we supposed to guess the error in it?...
Dan Cata, do you think someone would post that much work, just to able to trick people. I guess many do not realize how many hours must have been involved in this project before posting it. Any project even simple ones, has a chance of the equivalent of a “typo”. The more and more circuitry involved cause the chance to be extremely large. Magazines have editors, proofreaders that check for these oversights. Magazines ALL have error pages in the next issue, about errors in the previous issue.


Hi Magu, If you agree, I will help you test your board step by step.
Best regards,
Luciano

Luciano, Thank you for your “seeing the bigger picture”. You have set an example for all of us on the forum. You have the right spirit and we salute you. Your tutorial step by step “trouble shooting” postings will be a great guide for future “new-bies”. These posts show, not only how to methodically, break down the process step by step, but how many steps are involved in the algorithm of “trouble-shooting”. I learned a great deal from your logical process, it is a work of art.

-Adam-

magu
- 18th June 2007, 00:49
it can be a mistake when build the pcb of the board. for those who has the ORCAD Layout Plus i attach the pcb.

mister_e
- 18th June 2007, 00:55
I no longer have ORCAD on my machine, so can you convert it as a .DWG, DXF or gerber 274 or use PrimoPDF to convert it to a PDF?

Primo PDF will act as a printer, so you just need to print the document, but choose PrimoPDF as printer.

Download link: http://www.download.com/3000-10743_4-10660924.html

Nice and free tool ;)

magu
- 18th June 2007, 01:08
the yellow nets are not connected yet because i have to find space...

Luciano
- 18th June 2007, 11:15
Hi Magu,

During our test we have complitely tested the 245 LEDs, 42 Transistors,
and all the ICs listed below and all their connections.

IC3 (complitely tested)
IC4 (complitely tested)
IC5 (complitely tested)
IC6 (complitely tested)
IC7 (complitely tested)
IC9 (complitely tested)

We have also tested these pins and connections of IC1:

RA2 (PIN1) ---- ROW1
RA3 (PIN2) ---- ROW2
RB4 (PIN10) ---- ROW3
RB3 (PIN9) ---- ROW4
RB0 (PIN6) ---- ROW5
RB2 (PIN8) ---- ROW6
RB1 (PIN7) ---- ROW7

RB5 (PIN 11) ---- CD4017 RESET


The rest of the circuit can be tesetd in five minutes with an ohmmeter.

* * *

What about the 12V power supply?

What is the current of the used 12V power supply?
Is the 12V power supply a DC power supply?
Can you post a picture of the 12V power supply?
Can you post a picture of the 5V voltage regulator circuit? (The board).

* * *


Originally Posted by magu:
have realize when do i connect the the power wire without the serial
wire, i press the program button, the led stay lit, but in 5-6 sec stops, and
then again stay lit and on the led display the fisrt led on first ROW and
seond ROW are lit. something is wrong.... but i don`t know what...


This is not possible. With the serial cable disconnected, after you have
briefly pushed the program button, the LED 1 will be lit (ON) forever.
This is because in the program, the PicBasic Pro SERIN command will wait
the character "a" forever. (Note that no timeout is used in SERIN, therefore
the program will wait forever).

This is the line of code that will make the program wait the character "a" forever:

SERIN PORTB.7, N2400, ["a"], DataBuffer

In the program, before the SERIN line, the LED 1 is lit by the following code,
where first the pin is set as output and then the pin is set to LOW.
(Note tha the RA4 sinks current so this is why "0" will lit the LED).


OUTPUT PORTA.4
ActivityLED = 0

* * *

Download the PicBasic Pro demo and write a program that makes the LED 1 blink.
Program the PIC with the HEX file, remove all the ICs from the board and
see if the LED 1 blinks. If you do that, then you will know that the 10 MHz crystal oscillator
works, that your programmer works and that the FUSE bits are correctly set.

The PicBasic Pro demo is limited to 31 lines of source code.
With 31 lines of code you can write a program that will make the LED 1 blink
and you can also write a program that will test any single LED of the board.
If you do that, make sure you use the seven 180 ohm resistors.

Here you can download the demo:
http://www.melabs.com/pbpdemo.htm

Best regards,

Luciano

magu
- 18th June 2007, 13:49
Hi Magu,


* * *

What about the 12V power supply?

What is the current of the used 12V power supply?
Is the 12V power supply a DC power supply?
Can you post a picture of the 12V power supply?
Can you post a picture of the 5V voltage regulator circuit? (The board).

* * *



I use 5V from the power supply of the computer for both the diaply and the board.. If it necesary i can make the 5v voltage regulator circuit.

Luciano
- 18th June 2007, 15:52
I use 5V from the power supply of the computer for both the diaply and the board..

Hi Magu,

The +5V from the power supply of the computer should be OK.
Make sure you use a cable with 0.75mm˛ or 1mm˛ wires and that
the cable is less than 2 meters.
Connect a 470µF capacitor to the +5V on the board with the PIC
and a 470µF capacitor to the +5V on the board with the LEDs.

Best regards,

Luciano

magu
- 18th June 2007, 16:37
where should i mount the electro caps? if it`s necesary

Luciano
- 18th June 2007, 18:31
Hi Magu,

Here:
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/7669/ledboardel0.th.jpg (http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/7669/ledboardel0.jpg)
(Click to enlarge the picture).


Did you manage to download the demo of PicBasic Pro and write
the blink LED 1 program?

Best regards,

Luciano

magu
- 18th June 2007, 19:52
Hi Magu,




Did you manage to download the demo of PicBasic Pro and write
the blink LED 1 program?

Best regards,

Luciano

i download the program but i didn`t have time write it. i have poor knowledge it picbasic and i learn for now to write the program.

Luciano
- 18th June 2007, 22:01
Hi Steve,

Can you please review the code below?
The code will be compiled with the demo version of PicBasic Pro.

We need this code in order to test the Odyssey II board.

I hope Ithaca is not too far away!

Thank you!

Best regards,

Odysseus (Ulysses) Luciano





' File name: mblink.bas
' Target: 16f628A
' Compile the file from the command line: pbpdemo.exe -p16f628a mblink.bas
'
'
' +5V
' |
' _|_
' _\_/_ LED 1
' |
' RA4-----/\/\/\----+
' 300 ohm
'
'
Define OSC 10 ' 10 MHz crystal used.
CMCON = 7 ' Disable comparator, set PortA in digital mode.

OUTPUT PORTA.4 ' Set RA4 as output

loop: Low PORTA.4 ' Turn on LED 1, the pin RA4 sinks current.
Pause 500 ' Delay for .5 seconds.
High PORTA.4 ' Turn off LED 1, the pin RA4 floats, (RA4 open drain output).
Pause 500 ' Delay for .5 seconds.
Goto loop ' Go back to loop and blink LED 1 forever.
End

mister_e
- 18th June 2007, 22:09
This has to work. But i would add the Configuration fuse line at the top.

I hope the Demo Allow that...


<font color="#008000">' File name: mblink.bas
' Target: 16f628A
' Compile the file from the command line: pbpdemo.exe -p16f628a mblink.bas
'
'
' +5V
' |
' _|_
' _\_/_ LED 1
' |
' RA4-----/\/\/\----+
' 300 ohm
'
'
</font><font color="#000080">@ device pic16f628A, hs_osc, lvp_off, mclr_off, pwrt_on, cpd_off

DEFINE </font>OSC 10 <font color="#008000">' 10 MHz crystal used.
</font>CMCON = 7 <font color="#008000">' Disable comparator, set PortA in digital mode.

</font><font color="#000080">OUTPUT </font>PORTA.4 <font color="#008000">' Set RA4 as output

</font>loop: <font color="#000080">LOW </font>PORTA.4 <font color="#008000">' Turn on LED 1, the pin RA4 sinks current.
</font><font color="#000080">PAUSE </font>500 <font color="#008000">' Delay for .5 seconds.
</font><font color="#000080">HIGH </font>PORTA.4 <font color="#008000">' Turn off LED 1, the pin RA4 floats, (RA4 open drain output).
</font><font color="#000080">PAUSE </font>500 <font color="#008000">' Delay for .5 seconds.
</font><font color="#000080">GOTO </font>loop <font color="#008000">' Go back to loop and blink LED 1 forever.
</font><font color="#000080">END
</font>

Luciano
- 18th June 2007, 22:43
Hi Steve,

Yes it does and IC-Prog 1.05E recognizes the configuration word.

Thank you!

Best regards,

Luciano

mister_e
- 18th June 2007, 22:45
Good news!

Bienvenue Luciano, bonne chance ;)

magu
- 19th June 2007, 01:03
soo . . . what shall i do next .

Luciano
- 19th June 2007, 09:33
Hi Magu,

Paste the code below in the Windows editor "Notepad" and save the
file using the name mblink.bas. Save the file in the folder where you
have installed the demo of PicBasic Pro.
(The default is "C:\PBPDEMO\").


' File name: mblink.bas
' Target: 16f628A
' Compile the file from the command line: pbpdemo.exe -p16f628a mblink.bas
'
' +5V
' |
' _|_
' _\_/_ LED 1
' |
' RA4-----/\/\/\----+
' 300 ohm
'
@ device pic16f628A, hs_osc, lvp_off, mclr_off, pwrt_on, cpd_off

DEFINE OSC 10 ' 10 MHz crystal used.
CMCON = 7 ' Disable comparator, set PortA in digital mode.

OUTPUT PORTA.4 ' Set RA4 as output

loop: LOW PORTA.4 ' Turn on LED 1, the pin RA4 sinks current.
PAUSE 500 ' Delay for .5 seconds.
HIGH PORTA.4 ' Turn off LED 1, the pin RA4 floats, (RA4 open drain output).
PAUSE 500 ' Delay for .5 seconds.
GOTO loop ' Go back to loop and blink LED 1 forever.
END


Open a command shell window, change directory to C:\PBPDEMO and type:
pbpdemo.exe -p16f628a mblink.bas

This will compile your program and you will get the HEX file MBLINK.HEX.

Remove all the ICs from your board. With IC-Prog program the
PIC 16F628A with the file MBLINK.HEX. Once you have done that,
with IC-Prog VERIFY the chip. Once you are sure that the chip
is programmed OK, plug the PIC in the socket 1 and power up the
board. If everything is OK, you will see the LED 1 blink forever.

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/5730/compfilexh8.th.png (http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/5730/compfilexh8.png)
(Click to enlarge the picture).

Best regards,

Luciano

magu
- 19th June 2007, 12:40
The led doesen`t blink coreclty. It toggle, then stay lit 3 sec, blink again and so on. Maybe the pic is not good or the crystal.?

Luciano
- 19th June 2007, 13:47
Hi Magu,

This the reason why we are testing with this LED 1 blink program.
With this program you can verify if the PIC and its 10 MHz crystal oscillator work.

Try that: (In order)

- On the socket of IC1 solder a 100nF capacitor between the pin 14 (VDD) and pin 5 (GND).
(You should already have one close to the PIC, solder a second one on the above pins).

- Test if the LED 1 blinks.

- Replace the two 22pF capacitors.

- Test if the LED 1 blinks.

- Replace the 10 MHz crystal.

- Test if the LED 1 blinks.

- Replace the PIC. (Program a new PIC with MBLINK.HEX).

- Test if the LED 1 blinks.

- Use a different +5V power supply. (Make one with a voltage regulator 7805).

- Test if the LED 1 blinks.

* * *

When you program the PIC with the program IC Prog follow the steps visible in picture below:

Do not modify the fuses which are automatically set by the file MBLINK.HEX.

http://img467.imageshack.us/img467/1249/icprogstepsw0.png

The PIC is programmed OK only if the VERIFY step is successful!

Best regards,

Luciano

magu
- 19th June 2007, 20:57
I made o small board showd in the picture attach and it works fine but the led stay lit. doesen`t blink foverer. And the led with the res doese`nt need to be conneted to Ra3 ? . I can`t find the datasheet for the crystal....

Luciano
- 19th June 2007, 23:07
Hi Magu,

This circuit will work with our program MBLINK.BAS.

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/7664/odyssey3rr1.png

Please seek help locally, find a PIC expert in your country willing to help you.

Good luck!

Best regards,


Luciano

magu
- 19th June 2007, 23:28
Hi Magu,

This circuit will work with our program MBLINK.BAS.

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/7664/odyssey3rr1.png

Please seek help locally, find a PIC expert in your country willing to help you.

Good luck!

Best regards,


Luciano

ok i understand. i will buil this circuit and then i will give my results. best regards.

Luciano
- 20th June 2007, 12:12
Hi Trent,


Far as I'm concerned this thread has been completely hijacked with 4 pages of junk carrying
a user rating of 1.8 out of 5.

Yes, this is a bad habit. All this discourages people from posting.



I don't consider the cries for help to be even the slightest bit genuine. That's the sickening part.

There were three people reporting a problem with this project and indeed there was a problem
with the schematic and we managed to find it.

Are Magu's cries for help genuine?
In my opinion yes.

Look at the picture posted by Magu:

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/2433/boardmaguhj5.th.jpg (http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/2433/boardmaguhj5.jpg)
(Click to enlarge the picture).

CPU board: (Picture)

Magu is not an expert, the decoupling capacitors were added in
a second time despite this was the second board he made.

Display board: (Picture)

The alignment of the LEDs, transistors and resistors was done with
great care. (All the components were soldered perpendicular).

What are my conclusions?

Little theoretical knowledge, but good perseverance.
The same can be said for his posts in this thread.

* * *

I was able to help him to partially test the board he made.
I have never used PicBasic before and I have never developed anything
using PIC microcontrollers. All I know about PicBasic and PIC microcontrollers
is based on personal researches done while evaluating them.

This is why I had to suggest him to find somebody in his town
willing to help him program the chip and test the board.

Best regards,

Luciano

magu
- 22nd June 2007, 19:20
i`m very sorry for the delay but i was in vacantion, later i will post the result of the PIC...

magu
- 22nd June 2007, 23:27
you are the kindest man on this thread. IT FINALLYY WORKS !!! . the problem has when i buyed the 2 caps (22pF). They give me one 22pF and one 223pF . the 223pF it was the problem . Good bless you and have good luck in live.

Darrel Taylor
- 23rd June 2007, 08:01
Hey Mr. Magu,

I'm tired of all the negativity.

It would be really great if you could show a video (or maybe just a "Still picture") of your project working after the Outstanding assistance from Luciano.

Best regards,

magu
- 23rd June 2007, 10:59
Anithing is possible ... GREAT THX FOR LUCIANO. --> link to youtube movie removed

Luciano
- 23rd June 2007, 11:58
Hi Magu,

Congratulations! I hope your video will be enlightening to many people.

I wish you all the best!

Best regards,

Luciano


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

How to read capacitor codes:
http://xtronics.com/kits/ccode.htm

223 = 22000 pF (22nF)

Best regards,

Luciano

Dan Cata
- 23rd June 2007, 13:10
We should thank Luciano for his time and generous advices but let's not forget Trent Jackson, whose project is !

T.Jackson
- 23rd June 2007, 15:01
How did you manage such high brightness with common diffused (1-5mcd) LEDs? Wondering if you might also be able to post a picture of the copper side of the controller PCB that you original posted.

Luciano
- 23rd June 2007, 15:30
How did you manage such high brightness with common diffused (1-5mcd) LEDs?

Hi Trent,

A CCD and your retina have a different light sensitivity. (Spectrum is also different).
What you see here is a video of what the CCD sees.

Best regards,

Luciano


Just for fun:

Beam with an IR remote in a digital camera or a cellular
phone with camera and on the LCD of the camera you will see
the light pulses. (CCD are sensible to infrared light).

magu
- 23rd June 2007, 22:14
for those who want to build this project i atach the PCB. PM me when you need to know where the components are placed. Best Regard.

Melanie
- 24th June 2007, 17:34
To save long-term embarrassment for various parties involved, I have pruned this thread - if you don't like it well that's just tough!

Congratulations to Magu for accomplishing a difficult project fraught with obsticles. Commiserations for not getting a decent mark for it - you desrve better for your perseverence.

Congrats too for Trent for posting such a complex project.

And Luciano - well, you're an Angel...

Melanie
- 26th June 2007, 14:07
You make the board, you buy the bits, you stick it all together, you write your program, you waste a chunk of your life... why?

Can anyone beat the equivallent of $35?

Acetronics2
- 26th June 2007, 14:17
Hi, Mel

"Aliens" do think other way than us ...

LOL

Alain

PS ... I remember having seen that about µChip 16Bits Contest adds << If you want to have your name in the magazines ... etc,etc >>

may be a possible answer ???

T.Jackson
- 26th June 2007, 14:33
Starting to think that things are really cheap in the UK. The publisher of the EPE magazine offered me the frightful petty sum of 50 pound per project. Apparently, in the UK, you can buy a Mitsubishi 3000GT (in top condition) for about 3,500 pound :eek:. In Australia, you can pick one up in mediocre condition for about $25K The UK - a bargain hunters delight?

T.Jackson
- 26th June 2007, 15:45
"Aliens" do think other way than us ...

LOL


Yes, "Aliens" like myself do tend to think a bit differently. Apparently, if I stand on my head and drink a glass of water at exactly midnight, I begin to levitate in a diagonal direction, eventually reaching an altitude of around 25,000 miles before I start to turn green.

Don't ask me how i get back down, believe me you don't want to know.

Acetronics2
- 26th June 2007, 16:44
Hi, Trent

WE KNOW THE TRUTH ...

Alain

Luciano
- 26th June 2007, 19:58
Can anyone beat the equivallent of $35?


USD 12!
http://www.windycitynovelties.com/EPaysoft/cart/product.asp?ITEM_ID=13651


Luciano

skimask
- 26th June 2007, 20:04
USD 17.00!
http://www.windycitynovelties.com/EPaysoft/cart/product.asp?ITEM_ID=7826&CatID=324
Luciano

Minimum order of $50, meaning you have to buy 3, plus shipping, gets you $61.50USD total.
Still it only comes out to $20.50 each.

Luciano
- 26th June 2007, 21:23
Smart clothing expected to take off!

http://www.enlighted.com/pages/messagebras.shtml

Luciano

T.Jackson
- 27th June 2007, 06:54
I'm actually abandoning all thoughts of doing a KIT for this project. My cost price (based on a quantity of 100 pcs) works out to be around AUS $75. Add a margin of profit to this, plus shipping - no one is going to be interested. I pushed pretty hard for some good prices on the components too.

Acetronics2
- 27th June 2007, 08:58
Hi, Trent


I'm actually abandoning all thoughts of doing a KIT for this project. o.

<< Don't ask me how i get back down, believe me you don't want to know. >>

We ALSO know ...

Alain

Dan Cata
- 3rd July 2007, 10:21
so i start testing magu's project and sometimes, when i program the message to the eeprom, it starts scrolling from 2 places at the same time: right and center, with the same text. The reset and program buttons have already been pressed, the led indicator stays lit and blinks as normal... I saw that only a power off for several hours or a reprogramming of the pic solves the problem. Is this normal? The pic programmer can be found herehttp://www.adelaida.ro/product_info.php?cPath=32&products_id=525&osCsid=d2b14521643163ea5ce594e52ff9388a

magu
- 15th July 2007, 17:39
i want to delete my post with the led display from this forum !!!

Melanie
- 15th July 2007, 18:46
magu. You only need to post your request ONCE - not half a dozen times in every category and in totally unassociated threads - in order for it to be read. You made a valuable contribution to this forum, you found some errors posted by others and put in commendable effort that was recognised by many people. In fact, if anyone else wants to build the same project, they won't fall into the same difficulties you had. So to the greater good of the forum I think it should remain. It's also a good reminder to all forum members that if you post something on the internet, it becomes public domain - so good or bad, think before you post.

magu
- 18th July 2007, 17:39
magu. You only need to post your request ONCE - not half a dozen times in every category and in totally unassociated threads - in order for it to be read. You made a valuable contribution to this forum, you found some errors posted by others and put in commendable effort that was recognised by many people. In fact, if anyone else wants to build the same project, they won't fall into the same difficulties you had. So to the greater good of the forum I think it should remain. It's also a good reminder to all forum members that if you post something on the internet, it becomes public domain - so good or bad, think before you post.
i don`t want my post to remain !!!

Melanie
- 18th July 2007, 17:53
The link to your youtube movie clip has been removed... that safeguards your continued privacy, however everything else stays for the reasons I've already stated.

Luciano
- 18th July 2007, 20:03
Hi Magu,

I have verified the thread and personal info has been removed.

Best regards,

Luciano

magu
- 20th July 2007, 14:07
The link to your youtube movie clip has been removed... that safeguards your continued privacy, however everything else stays for the reasons I've already stated.

WHAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND . I WANT ALL MY POST TO BE REMOVE . AALLLLLL !!!! INCLUDED THAT ON THE 245 LED DISPLAY AND 245 DISPLAY CONSTRUCT BY MAGU AND THE OTHER ONES !!!

Pic_User
- 20th July 2007, 14:11
Note to builders this project has been “reborn” - with corrections as:
245 Led Matrix Display (as constructed by Magu)
http://www.picbasic.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=6601
:)

Melanie
- 20th July 2007, 14:40
I'm sorry Magu, that is NOT an option for the reasons I've already stated. If you no longer wish to contribute to this forum, that is your choice - just don't log-in here anymore.

Luciano
- 21st July 2007, 11:20
Hi Melanie,

When a user click on the link "Register", the Forum Rules are displayed
and the registering user has to select "I have read, and agree to
abide by the MELabs PICBASIC Forums rules".

Could you please add to these rules that if you post something on this forum
it becomes public domain and what you have posted will not be removed unless
it violates the forum rules.

* * *

This is not a rule but could be helpful:

Users are responsible for their own privacy.
Do not post phone numbers, postal addresses, e-mail addresses with your
name or any information that could link to you. If you do so, it is at your
own risk.


* * *

The same forum rules should be visible in the link FAQ.

Best regards,

Luciano

Melanie
- 21st July 2007, 11:54
I know, but where do you draw the line...

Brings to mind the story of the American woman (it had to be!) who put her pet dog in the microwave to dry-off and wondered why it died. She then sued (successfully!!!) the manufacturer because they didn't explicitly say in the manual not to put your pet cat or dog in it!

Children all over the world are forever being told don't give out personal details, and what do the adults do... they give them youtube (I just love the nerd with the dry-ice bomb who blew himself up) and myspace and forums and the like...

The world is full of stupid people... have we really got to spend our lives holding their hand?

Luciano
- 21st July 2007, 12:32
Hi Melanie,

The real purpose is to protect the owner of the forum against unpleasant surprises.

My preferred one:
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/2144/mirroruz8.jpg

Best regards,

Luciano

mackrackit
- 21st July 2007, 18:38
Melanie,
"Brings to mind the story of the American woman (it had to be!)"
Why would it have to be American?

But we do have an old saying over here-

Anything you say can and WILL be used against you.


The world is full of stupid people... have we really got to spend our lives holding their hand?
Yes, right to the edge of the cliff.

bill12780
- 30th July 2007, 03:51
I just spent the last...oh....hour or so reading this "Train Wreck" of a thread.
(and the associated like to the scene of the crime)

All I gots to say is this:

Some of you involved in this thread are quite possibly the most kind and generous people I have EVER came across in my entire life. You should all get an extra brick for your hourse in heven...Really. (I wish I could say that I would have acted the same....Gives me something to think about.)

Some of you (And you know who you are) Should be so ashamed of yourself Its hard to imagine you had the guts to even come back and say "I am gone". Its no wonder why you would want your post removed. If I had STOLEN someones hard work and took advantage of their good nature I would feel the same way.

I know that this thread is basically dead. No post for about a month. I also know that my contribution here is "basically" (pun intended) useless. But I just wanted to voice my support for the many and my total disdain for the few.

And I think a special Kudos should goto TJ for making the attempt!

And a big thanks to Melanie for using her super powers to make sure these threads are documented fair and correctly. Its damn nice to know someone like her has your back. We should all send you a pound of good coffee beans! (keep those super powers going!)

Best to all...Who deserve it.

Bill12780

nomad
- 18th September 2007, 01:25
WOW! I registered just to post on this thread. (i was going to anyways) i just had to comment, you people have more patience than i. and better observation skills. i wouldnt have noticed the effort magu put into his board as luciano did. i've been reading posts for months now and finally had to say thanks! i've learned so much from luciano, melanie and many others. thanks T. Jackson for this thread and more learning opportunities.

selim
- 10th January 2008, 10:55
Thank you T.Jackson excell work

can you share the source of the VB soft

Thank you in advance

skimask
- 10th January 2008, 19:11
Thank you T.Jackson excell work
can you share the source of the VB soft
Thank you in advance

And again, try reading the thread first...

iulisan
- 25th January 2008, 12:19
Hello.I build the project as indicated by : T.Jackson , Luciano and Magu etc.I did all the tests indicated in the previos threads and I think it will work with just a litlle help that I will ask from anyone...The problem is : when I start it all the LEDs flash with no sense , when I put the board in program mode the led stays on after it blinks for three or four times but the software tells me that the port is not found or is it in use but it isn't so.I belive that if I solve that problem I will finish the board.I dit test the software on win 98 and xp.Mayby if i can find an image of an 24lc256 that works i can burn on my eeprom and see what happens.Thanks a million times.

iulisan
- 25th January 2008, 18:53
There is no one willing to help me ? Is there no one there who has build the display ?!?

skimask
- 25th January 2008, 19:07
There is no one willing to help me ? Is there no one there who has build the display ?!?

A little bit greedy aren't ya? It's only been six hours.

If you read the thread (yes all one million posts), you'll see that while the initial posting of the project had an error or two, all issues were successively solved.
There's even step-by-step troubleshooting in there somewhere.

Pic_User
- 25th January 2008, 19:07
Hi iulisan,
Welcome to the ME Labs PicBASIC Pro forums.

Search the forum for:
245 LED magu


I have not built the project but looking for more information may help you.
-Adam-

iulisan
- 25th January 2008, 19:44
Thanks.
Like I said in my previous posts : I think my board is ok cause it's made after magu(zamfirelu http://www.zamfirelu.org/dtpt/viewtopic.php?t=254) schematics , and a read over and over again the whole thread...the problem is that I can't connect with the computer to the board and today i saw that even when the eeprom in not present on board , the LED for programing blinks the same like with the eeprom on it.
Again thanks a million.
P.S. : I contacted magu on his forum and i stand in touch with him last year , when i first begun to build the display , but until now he did not respond to my new posts , so that is why I decided to post in this forum that started all...
P.P.S. : I'm impatient to continue the project because in this period I have time to do so.

iulisan
- 28th January 2008, 13:20
Yep it's working...Bill G. made me some crazy days with his xp...

charudatt
- 27th March 2008, 05:43
Nice to read posting on this project in the year 2008.

I am about to start with the project with certain modification on the PCB.

I don't wish to drag the project on.... and on.... but , just wanted to make sure, i don't do the same mistakes (if there are any).

Shall post my modified schematic shortly.

regards

T.Jackson
- 27th March 2008, 06:32
This thread has certainly had some hits. Source code downloaded over 2,500 times!

Ioannis
- 27th March 2008, 07:43
Sure is a "hit"!

Also congrats for your new article on EPE!

Ioannis

T.Jackson
- 27th March 2008, 08:20
Sure is a "hit"!

Also congrats for your new article on EPE!

Ioannis

Thanks Ioannis.

But I must say that I'm a little disappointed with EPE at the moment though. They have banned me from their forum for saying the following things ...

a. The burglar alarm is mediocre, certainly not "ultimate" like originally publicized.
b. Freelance technical engineering for magazines pays very poorly.
c. I have no plans on submitting anymore projects to SC.

So don't expect to go onto EPE's forum and ever speak openly about anything, because chances are they'll suspend your account and delete your posts.

Not happy :(

Ioannis
- 27th March 2008, 11:49
I have followed your very good publications up to this moment. I must say that all are excellent.

Too pity that you had such a treatment.

Don't give up. There are other publishers still. If like what you do, I am sure you 'll get the recognition you deserve. And you really do.

Ioannis

T.Jackson
- 27th March 2008, 12:26
Too pity that you had such a treatment.


As Melanie likes to say; "any resemblances between persons living or dead is purely coincidental"

Ioannis
- 27th March 2008, 13:18
Good one!

Ioannis

Bronx68
- 15th April 2008, 16:34
Please explain the use of D3 through D7 do make an 'or gate' for reset. Why 100K resistors?
Why not use Q0 from each of the CD4017 counters?

falingtrea
- 15th April 2008, 23:59
Please explain the use of D3 through D7 do make an 'or gate' for reset. Why 100K resistors?
Why not use Q0 from each of the CD4017 counters?

The diodes are used to create a master reset from the PIC and to isolate each 4017's reset from each other. Diodes are usually a lot cheaper than logic for something as simple as this. The 100k is probably on the conservative side as far as a value, unless the designer was trying to reduce race conditions or output glitches by creating a simple RC filter.

T.Jackson
- 16th April 2008, 05:12
The diodes are used to create a master reset from the PIC and to isolate each 4017's reset from each other.

Correct!

Further explanation -- without the diodes intact, Q0 lines on the counters wouldn't have control over their designated MR line. You simply can't tie all the Q0 lines together with anything but a semiconductor for this. As for the 100K resistors -- these ensure that there's never going to be a short between RB5 on the PIC and associated Q0 lines on the counters. When RB5 swings high, any of the Q0 lines on the counters could be either high or low. This is CMOS we're talking about here, we could even go as high as a mega ohm.

inspired4real
- 29th May 2008, 18:46
HELLO T JACKSON, YOUR PROJECT IS INSPIRING AS IF TO SAY CHALLENGING SO MANY PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD. I WANT TO BUILD THIS PROJECT AND MAGUS SITE TENDS NOT TO OPEN AND IT IS LIKE IT IS NOT IN ENGLISH(SORRY TO MAGU IF I AM WRONG). I AM THOUGH A NEWBIE TO PIC IN SOME SENSE BUT HAVE BEEEN PLAYING WITH ANALOG ELECTRONICS FOR SOMETIME. WHAT I DONT REALLY UNDERSTAND IS THE EEPROM ASPECT OF YOUR PROJECT, I WANT TO KNOW HOW YOU LOAD THE ASCII CHARACTER SET INTO THE EEPROM FROM YOUR PROGRAM, OR ARE YOU NOT USING THAT METHOD. I WAS THINKING OF DEFINING EEPROM ADDRESSES FOR ASCII CHARACTER AND THEN LOADING EACH CHARACTER IN AN ADRESS THAT I WILL LATER READ TO DISPLAY CHARACTER. DO YOU HAVE ANY DETAIL MATERIALS ON HOW TO USE EERPOM LIKE THE ONE YOU USED IN THE PROJECT? HOW FAST REALLY DO YOU FETCH DATA FROM THIS EEPROM . I AM THINKING OF BUILDING A BIGGER DISPLAY USING 3mm ULTRABRIGHT LED WITH BUFFER AND SUPPLYING ABOUT 50ma OF CURRENT WITH MULTIPLEXING I DONT THINK THE LEDS WILL GET DAMAGED? SORRY REALLY IF MY QUESTION MAY BE TOO SIMPLE FOR YOU TO REPLY TO?
IS THERE ANYWAY I CAN GET MAGU'S LINK AND DOWNLOAD HIS STUFF. THANKS.

T.Jackson
- 30th May 2008, 04:36
The ASCII characters are custom, specific only to this project. They are programmed into the eeprom one byte at a time, whereas each byte represents data for the column in the character. Each column of data for a character is assigned a unique address in the eeprom and all the columns are collated together to form the character. It is impossible to explain the entire inner workings of the system in just a few paragraphs. I don't recommend this project for anyone who is new to pics / electronics.

Regards,

Trent Jackson

Bronx68
- 2nd June 2008, 15:49
Trent,
I am also designing a similar scrolling sign. I am storing the entire character set in the PIC program memory. I then plan to fetch the characters out by switches to build a buffer that contains the message. Any insight on this approach? Did you look at this approach?

T.Jackson
- 3rd June 2008, 05:50
Give me a 100 engineers and I'll give you 100 different solutions to the problem. This kind of project is really quite abstract, my solution is far from the best and or the cheapest. I haven't really explored other possibilities well enough to make any suggestions. Using single sided PCBs was a silly thing to do (this is why it wasn't published)

Regards,

Trent Jackson

inspired4real
- 6th June 2008, 19:01
Hello Jackson, I Have Built This Project Before Using The Pic Code Space For Storing My Character Defintion, But The Message Had To Be Fixed And Each Time I Had To Reburn The Pic For A New Message To Be Displayed, This Is Where Yours Has Advantage Over Mine. The Only Thing I Have Not Really Worked With Is Eeproms Because I Hardly Find Them Around Where I Live And The Common Ones Close To Me Is The 27c512 Types, Can This Act As A Replacment Even With Modifications, So That I Can Do A Few Breadboarding To See How It Works?
Thanks For The Previous Reply To My Post.

skimask
- 7th June 2008, 02:32
And The Common Ones Close To Me Is The 27c512 Types

A common one close to you is the 27C512? Where are you? In the PC salvage yard from yester-year?

A 27C512 is a 64K x 8 EPROM. Great choice, if you're up to driving 16 address lines, 8 data lines, along with a few control lines, and like to wait around with a UV eraser just to change one byte at a time.

A much better choice would be a 24LC1025, 64K x 8 SERIAL EEPROM. 2 wires, reprogrammable in circuit, probably faster access times...AND PBP supports it with I2CREAD/I2CWRITE.

Not saying that interfacing with a parallel EPROM isn't possible...It certainly is and not really that hard...But WHY?

T.Jackson
- 7th June 2008, 03:15
I believe that the 512 would be a drop in replacement for the 256. Both use word sized addresing and are pin for pin compatiable.

Trent Jackson

T.Jackson
- 7th June 2008, 15:29
Hey Jeremy,

With a 27c256 -- how do you restrict the electron flow to and from the data pins to precisely 33 p/uS? It's probably really simple to do, alas, so am I.

Don't ask me why I need to know, instead perceive it as a completely "abstract" (theoretical) -- sort question.

Trent Jackson

skimask
- 7th June 2008, 23:04
I believe that the 512 would be a drop in replacement for the 256. Both use word sized addresing and are pin for pin compatiable.

A 27C512 is a direct drop in replacement for the 24LC256?
Only with a hammer and a dremel tool...and some of those mushrooms you've got laying around...

skimask
- 7th June 2008, 23:06
With a 27c256 -- how do you restrict the electron flow to and from the data pins to precisely 33 p/uS? It's probably really simple to do, alas, so am I.
Don't ask me why I need to know, instead perceive it as a completely "abstract" (theoretical) -- sort question.

Well, you're a smart guy, all that college edgjamakayshun and the double-naught secret service and all.
You should be able to figure it out.

T.Jackson
- 8th June 2008, 11:36
A 27C512 is a direct drop in replacement for the 24LC256?
Only with a hammer and a dremel tool...and some of those mushrooms you've got laying around...

I made an assumption. I actually thought that he was referring to a 24LC, because given that the micro only has 18 pins -- it's impossible to directly interface it to a 27c without a 4040, 12-BIT, BCD counter (or similar) for the parallel addressing. Even then there would be insufficient IO pins remaining for the rest of the project. On top of that -- playing around with eproms isn't a chore for the beginner. Perhaps I'm totally mistaken.

Trent Jackson

skimask
- 8th June 2008, 22:06
On top of that -- playing around with eproms isn't a chore for the beginner. Perhaps I'm totally mistaken.
Trent Jackson
Neither is playing with PICs, but soooo many think otherwise...
Maybe I'M totally mistaken.

T.Jackson
- 9th June 2008, 06:55
Neither is playing with PICs, but soooo many think otherwise...


I disagree. Languages like PBP makes playing around with PICs a chore for the beginner. But implementing a 27c256 eprom into the equation does require much extra knowledge than the PBP manual can depict.

Trent Jackson

rele
- 21st June 2008, 19:43
Hello members

This is not quite relate with this topic, but I thik it may be usefull.

I need to do increase power suply for led display to +7V - 9V instead +5V wich is now. Row drivers is irf9530 (from mcu thru 1K on gate, +5V sors, drainon led row), and column driver is HC164 + ULN2803.
Instead of irf9530 I try with BD242 (and few others), but if I increase suply on emiter above 5.5V, transistor is fully conductive (colector - emiter), and every led is on. With +5V on emiter everything is ok, but leds are with verry poor light.
When I replace ULN2803 with 8xBS170 (n-fet), I have little better result but still not good enough.
All this is without current limiter ressistors.

Leds are red, 2 leds in series for 1 dot.


Regards

T.Jackson
- 22nd June 2008, 05:09
leds are current dependent, not voltage.

Trent Jackson

rele
- 22nd June 2008, 14:41
Yes, but here I have two leds in series, and supply of +5V. I have voltage drop of 1.2-1.6 on ULN drivers, and rds on 9530 0.30 ohm. I guess I need to increase voltage?

Regards

Rele

Ioannis
- 22nd June 2008, 23:12
Each led could use 2 volts so an increase is recommended.
Ioannis

yupng
- 14th August 2008, 03:14
i need a software and hardware about dot matrix message display using wireless keyboard.
Use wireless keyboard to sent the data to dot matrix message display....
Anyone can help me???
Pls.........

skimask
- 14th August 2008, 05:24
i need a software and hardware about dot matrix message display using wireless keyboard. Use wireless keyboard to sent the data to dot matrix message display.... Anyone can help me??? Pls.........

Don't ask for much do ya...

What is your skill set?

Which PIC do you want to use?

What sort of hardware would you like to use?

What kind of wireless transmission protocol are you planning on using?

Lost yet?

Try eBay... :D

yupng
- 15th August 2008, 04:47
Don't ask for much do ya...

What is your skill set?

Which PIC do you want to use?

What sort of hardware would you like to use?

What kind of wireless transmission protocol are you planning on using?

Lost yet?

Try eBay... :D


What i want is use two microcontroller(MCU) to build this project. One MCU is connect to PC keyboard and transmitter(using RF or IR to transmit the data).Another MCU connect to receiver(can be IR or RF circuit) and dot matrix. I found one similar project but i cant found the datesheet for the MCU used in this project. I also don't understand the code.

skimask
- 15th August 2008, 04:48
What i want is use two microcontroller(MCU) to build this project. One MCU is connect to PC keyboard and transmitter(using RF or IR to transmit the data).Another MCU connect to receiver(can be IR or RF circuit) and dot matrix. I found one similar project but i cant found the datesheet for the MCU used in this project. I also don't understand the code.

And didn't answer ANY of the previous questions...

yupng
- 15th August 2008, 05:40
And didn't answer ANY of the previous questions...

i still doing the research for this project. So i not confirm what hardware are require for this project. I hope anyone has this similar project can post it to me. Actually my project topic is <Wireless Announcement Board>.
Any information that related to this project also can post to me.
Thanks.......

skimask
- 15th August 2008, 05:55
i still doing the research for this project. So i not confirm what hardware are require for this project. I hope anyone has this similar project can post it to me. Actually my project topic is <Wireless Announcement Board>.
Any information that related to this project also can post to me.
Thanks.......

I'd doubt anybody can help you until you help yourself.

Until then, sounds like you might want to use something prebuilt:
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=760

yupng
- 15th August 2008, 07:02
I'd doubt anybody can help you until you help yourself.

Until then, sounds like you might want to use something prebuilt:
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=760

I had done this project before but not with wireless. I use RS232 port sent the data from pc to dot-matrix display module. Now, i need to improve it to be wireless.
The problem is :
How i send out the data via wireless.
How to translate the receive data and display it on dot-matrix display module.

Anyway........thanks for your reply.
Thanks.......

mackrackit
- 15th August 2008, 07:12
You can use radio modules like these(take your pick)
http://www.rentron.com/PicBasic/RemoteControl.htm
to send serial data.

yupng
- 18th August 2008, 14:15
Anyone can help me do a "wireless announcement board" using dot-matrix.
The data(text) is send out from keyboard via wireless to dot-matrix display.

T.Jackson
- 18th August 2008, 15:02
Anyone can help me do a "wireless announcement board" using dot-matrix.
The data(text) is send out from keyboard via wireless to dot-matrix display.

20k

There's so much psychology in music heh

Trent Jackson

T.Jackson
- 18th August 2008, 15:43
Or would you prefer a 6 million dollar lawsuit?

Trent Jackson

inspired4real
- 21st August 2008, 13:11
i had to so some reading about serial eeproms and i am wondering if i can use a 24c16? apart from changing the control code and space limitation comparted to 24lc256, do you think i will have any problem assuming i am able to take care of the issue of pin compatbility if that happens to be the problem, i am really sorry if i am fooling around again with my question.


having to load message means i have to bring down my display and use my desktop serial port, i also bought a programmer and it has serial port. i was thinking if i can use a usb to serial converter so i can use my laptop to both load message and can also use the serial pic programmer with my laptop by using the adaptor. has anyone tried this out?


is there a free software or utility with which i can generate my custom character defintion for any matrix size i want, because i want to actually make a 14 by 10 size matrix display.


i was thinking of using red green and blue led in sequence so that when they scroll i sort of have a colored display, but the current required varies to get some level of brightness for the different color of leds, any advice?

thanks alot

T.Jackson
- 21st August 2008, 14:51
any advice?


Stay tunned for my extensive line up of mikroC projects to come. Oh, and watch out for angry Government officials and tax payers.

Trent Jackson

aurbo
- 7th October 2008, 00:05
How hard would it be to expand this project into a 16rowx48column display?

(I happen to have a 16x48 matrix gathering dust)


Cheers
Steve

T.Jackson
- 7th October 2008, 02:16
How hard would it be to expand this project into a 16rowx48column display?


Nothing is hard when you know what you're doing. But you wouldn't use this design for a big display like that. A step in the right direction would probably involve considering a module-based schema. This would allow any size display to be constructed, simply by connecting more modules together. Each module could be say: 16 x 24, occupied with its own microcontroller, leds and IO interface connecting to other modules. I think one of the biggest milestones for a project like this would be in the software.

Best regards,

Trent Jackson

Bronx68
- 8th November 2008, 17:52
Does anyone know of source for scrolling sign (pcbs only) for purchase in lots of 100 pieces? We would like to integrate these boards into our LED arrays.
Boards need to drive either 7 rows by 40 columns or 7 rows by 80 columns
USB interface for updated messages from pc
IR remote control interface
I will provide any other details if there is any interest
We will also be interested in purchased the associated remote control units.

T.Jackson
- 9th November 2008, 13:50
If only I thought it was genuine buddy.

T.Jackson
- 9th November 2008, 14:28
I usually take around 3ms to work people out.

Next.

selim
- 14th November 2008, 13:13
HI T.Jackson

can you please tel me the modification in the code to work with 74hc164

Thank you in advance

aladdin_2005
- 26th February 2009, 17:34
hi t.jackson

we built ur project ,but we face some problems..
first we changed the eeprom type to (24lc16b) -256 is not avaible
but there was no thing working no message on the screen
and one thing more...
the eeprom when programmed by the serial and the pic (this stuff)
when we read it on our computer only one address changes the first one only..!

just wanted to know something too where the programme start writing on the eeprom (which address) .

i wonder if i continued working with this eeprom (24lc16b) should i change the software (the pic software).

Thanx in advance

octobpra
- 13th April 2009, 19:37
Hi Magu

Help me i can't find www.zamfirelu.com that u post pdf file in 245 Led Matrix Display (as constructed by Magu) ....

Ioannis
- 14th April 2009, 10:47
I think magu has left the forum...

Ioannis

magnoedu
- 12th August 2009, 22:46
Hello friends I'm very happy and grateful to the t.Jackson it works very well. but had to use another computer to program the vb did not work because in my pc. wanted to know if you are like me change the transistors to turn more LEDs per pixel example three LEDs in series and make an pannel big

magnoedu
- 13th August 2009, 16:06
the program vb not run in my computer ,but run in my notebook and outhers im format my computer and not run help-me

magnoedu
- 14th August 2009, 01:21
Trent wanted to be my friend is not asking too much, me that the source code of vb to change as necessary or if you can not just tell me what he does only I can do similar for the assembly so I found problem with crystal but failed to replace and worked beyond the error of the pins to rest everything was very well I am very grateful, God bless

Ioannis
- 14th August 2009, 16:37
I have a feeling of strong resemblence between the two users with the similar user name. Or not?

Ioannis

T.Jackson
- 15th August 2009, 06:16
Yeah, Ioannis is perhaps a bit physic too.

Wish I could make some sense out of the questions / remarks.

Good gawd this thing is a total nightmare.

T.Jackson
- 15th August 2009, 07:34
Never again will I post projects on the net.

Some people are claiming ownership of some of them, particularly the Donkey Kong game that I wrote.

2 people have posted it on programming forums claiming that they wrote it, as their first program in VB!

Get real.

aurbo
- 15th August 2009, 14:46
Never again will I post projects on the net.

Some people are claiming ownership of some of them, particularly the Donkey Kong game that I wrote.

2 people have posted it on programming forums claiming that they wrote it, as their first program in VB!

Get real.


Well that sucks that people have hijacked your good work Trent.

While I learned ALOT about matricies from this project I ended up taking a different route based on what I learned.

Its a shame that other people refuse to learn from others rather than just copy and paste and claim it as their own.

I had similar problems with writing things like vb scripts in the past, some of the satellite offices where I worked started to promote others based on the scripts "they created" which saved the company big bucks.

I counter claimed every claim and won recognition but never the promotion or the bonuses.

Funny how someone can take something like your own name and embed it into the variables that no one notices, especially when spread out but in order.

set T as int
set J as int
set A as int
set C as int
set K as string
set S as int
set O as string
set N as Var

T.Jackson
- 16th August 2009, 01:17
While I learned ALOT about matricies from this project I ended up taking a different route based on what I learned.


Smart guy.

This is exactly what you should be doing.

Darrel Taylor
- 16th August 2009, 05:31
I can not say if it's the same magu. Email's different, IP's different, language is the same.

However, it seems you're done with this thread Trent.

Can I close it, please?

DT

T.Jackson
- 16th August 2009, 05:49
Permission granted.

Guess I won't be posting what I just fabricated in photoshop.

... Edited ...

Darrel Taylor
- 16th August 2009, 05:59
Thank you.

Closed!