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Bruce
- 14th April 2006, 22:44
Hello All,

I'm working on a book for PBP, and would like to solicit some feedback on a
few things before moving along with it.

Primarily, I'm looking for feedback on what people would prefer as for content
and book format.

The book focuses on two major areas.

1. How to use each PBP command & a detailed introduction on what each
command requires the user to setup manually before using the command.

For example; What do "I" need to do first before using ADCIN, HSEROUT, etc,
and when it may be more advantageous/appropriate for someone to configure
certain hardware registers/peripherals manually. A good example of this is for
someone using hardware PWM, or looking to use the PIC hardware USART
without the over-head of PBP commands, and for added flexibility.

I.E. as some folks already know, using a PIC with 3 hardware PWM ports,
HPWM is obviously not the way to go.

2. How to read & interpret those 500+ page PIC data sheets. This involves
putting info in PIC data sheets into laymans terms that the novice can
actually understand.

So, my questions are;

1. What do you feel would be missing from the information provided as
outlined above?

2. Would people prefer printed & bound VS a book in .HTML format?

The book was originally designed in HTML format. I.E. it will come on CD
ROM,and viewable with any browser. This is due to the heavy graphic
content that makes this type of book prohibitively expensive to publish and
allows me to keep pricing down.

By including a large number of graphics, the book can explain things in great
detail with actual photo's & schematics. My argument for this approach is that
nothing is left to the imagination. The picture/schematic shows everything in
detail.

3. What do you feel is left unexplained, or could use more detailed information
on, in the PBP manual?

4. Would you like to see a section on using the 18F series with PBP?

5. How about a section on using newer full-speed USB PIC's?

Note that my intention is not to produce a PBP project book. I would prefer
to make it a book that leaves the reader with a firm understanding of how
PBP works, and how to read & interpret PIC data sheets. I think once these
two areas are understood the reader can produce pretty much anything they
want with PBP, and a PIC.

Any & all feedback would be appreciated.

mister_e
- 15th April 2006, 10:50
Seems to be a good idea Bruce. Your intentions and plan are really great and i don't see anything else too add.

CD-ROM format or Printed... why no both? Sure the printed one will be much expensive but if some readers like me hate PDFs or can't bind the document by themself, this will make things easy. You know how i work anyway. Even with a bind book, i send it right away to redo the binding for a bullet-proof binding as ALL books on the market are just too faget to be lifetime proof. I can't use PDF as reference (for stuff i consider useful). I really prefer the touch of paper.

For what i feel now your book will need at least a thousand pages or so... don't count on me to use a PDF, HTML file. BUT having the file, i'll send it for binding.

If you do some Bind book, some may like the idea to have removable pages and have the flexibility to add their own comments betweens pages... Even if it make the book much sensitive to loose page after few/many uses. Those kind of books really sucks IMHO. One day or another you'll loose a page or more. One compiler gave that kind of stupid binding book in the past.. Why? well i can't say but i hate that.

Keeping pricing down is a must. My own opinon will be to produce only PDF or HTML CD-ROM but printable if the user want to bind it himself. BTW, is there any country in whole world who don't have any binding place close?



4. Would you like to see a section on using the 18F series with PBP?

Unless you introduce some assembly comparison, i can't see why it must exist such a section. That's still a black programable component with some pins after all. OK right, most 18F offer more interesting option but if user is still too lazzy to read a little bit the datasheet or surfing on the Microchip website... it's his own problem.

A section wich discuss of 12XXX, 16XXX, 18XXXX difference could be interesting if it provide many details as
What 14Bit core mean?
When using 10F, 12F, 16F or 18F



5. How about a section on using newer full-speed USB PIC's?

Good idea, but you know what it imply too. You'll need to explain both side, PC side and PIC side. So now you'll need to explain VB (or else PC language)+ PBP. It still a good idea BTW. Refering /pointing user to Mecanique easy HID and the Jan Axelson book could ensure you some $$$ OR at least you can negociate with them ;)

The only thing i would suggest too add is to talk about

some IDE like MPLAB, MicroCodeStudio
device programmer
ICSP


If you feel i can help on anything, let me know on my private e-mail. I will be really glad to help you.

Good project, good idea. I'm sure this will be a success and handy for many beginner, novice see expert user. It's always interesting to know/learn different point of view as nobody can say that they use the right and ultimate programming method.

mmm, maybe i should do a book too! LMAO... no way, not intelligent enough for that. Project book... maybe.... mmm Melanie, Darrel, Bruce why not doing it together? Just an idea :)

bbarney
- 15th April 2006, 16:34
Bruce
This sounds like a book most people here really need myself included especially item 2 how to wade through that datasheet.
May be a section on porting code from asm to picbasic nothing to elaborate just something to help people get started.
I think the cd option is the best way to keep it affordable
I volunter too proof read your book when it's done :)
Steve with over 1900 post's you've already wrote a book

DynamoBen
- 15th April 2006, 16:51
I really like the idea of a printed book. For me they are easier to read and more portable.

As far as content: I really think there should be a programming practices, methods, and conventions section. One idea would be PICBasic "standard practices." Writing simple programs that blink an LED are simple and easy when you start scaling up from there you start running into interrupts, timers, and code size issues. There is no documentation on how to layout a program logically, what methods to use, or the big picture of embedded programming. I think a big overview of good programming practices might be nice, basically dos and don'ts of PICs and programming.

sougata
- 16th April 2006, 08:48
Hi,

While PBP makes your life easier as stepping into the world of PIC micros it does have its own shortcomings while developing professional applications. I would like to have a PIC primer first that lets even newbies touch your book. Then lets enter into solutions with simple problems. Now addup where PBP loses. Speed, Codespace utilization, Interrupts, coding style to name a few. For example when you toggle a port.bit (14bit) it always touches the TRIS registers which is unnecessary in terms of code, execution speed. I would then like to have stuffs that could make life a little bit easier like ready code+circuit snippets.Reading a datasheet is not a big deal if you have at least read one thorouhgly. Architecture remaining please try to build a foundation stone for the readers. If it is on a CD-ROM then have some nifty utilities on-board , like auto code snippet generator. If I am asking too much then I am still dreaming and the tranculizers that I took last night are still active

mister_e
- 16th April 2006, 10:48
Bruce i feel you'll need to do more than one book now :)

1. an introduction to PIC and Datasheet
2. an introduction to PBP and command explanation
3. an introduction to PIC programming using PBP
4. General programming tips
5. Hardware consideration using PIC
6. How to write program on a PIC using your fingers, a keyboard, a PIC programmer and a PC...OK just kidding for that one ;)

PWM, CCP, TIMERs, Interrupts and ALL internal PIC stuff should be covered in details.. oh well that's still in the 'How to read and interpret datasheet' or in the 'Introduction to PIC'

Glad to see you'll do it for Melabs Compiler ;)

mister_e
- 16th April 2006, 11:00
Steve with over 1900 post's you've already wrote a book
well, remove post where i'm wrong, where i'd repeat CMCON=7, ANSEL=0,...,..., heated debate, personnal opinion and you'll probably discover that i did 'round 200 usefull post or less ;)

By his deep PIC knowledge, Bruce is one of those to have the ability to write the ultimate reference book. If some don't know his company or website, have a look to www.rentron.com. There's a bunch of usefull stuff: code example, project for PBP and other. And as if it was not enough, you'll also discover some VisualBasic tips. What can you ask more?

Even if i've never met him and i'm not associate in any part of, Bruce is one of those i highely recommend to everybody's looking for a serious supplier.

Sure i'll be one of the first to wait at his business door when the firsts release will be available.

rhino
- 18th April 2006, 02:56
Great idea Bruce! You're one of the few I could see creditable enough to undertake such a task. Although you mentioned that you don't want it to be a project book, it would be nice to sprinkle it with some small applications that make the reader think outside of the box, expose some of those features avialable with pics that a beginner would not normally think of. Examples from your website projects for example. Maybe not complete apps, but useable chunks that the reader can piece together and stimulate the brain. What is your target release date? Sign me up... looking forward to it!

Melanie
- 18th April 2006, 10:28
What I want to know, looking at everyone’s comments is “Where do you draw the line?”.

Now I’ll get seriously flamed for this (like I care), but I’ll say it anyway. The PICBasic manual as it stands is 90% of the way there. The other 10% is in your PICs Datasheet.

If you don’t know how to program in Basic – go to night school.

If you don’t know electronics – go get a course at your local college.

But what I see is folks tinkering with things they haven’t a clue about, asking others for help and then not understanding the answers they’re given. How do you connect a Matrix Keypad to your PIC? – well I can think of at least six different ways of doing it – including two completely different ways that use just one I/O pin for a whole 4x4 Matrix Keypad… how many examples will we put in the book?, because I’ll bet the one you don’t put in is the one somebody’s going to moan about that you haven’t got.

I’m sorry to say this Bruce, and please prove me wrong in a couple of years time, but you’ll end up writing a complete microprocessor electronics course encompassing everything from basic Ohms Law (ie how to calculate a potential divider so as not to overload your PICs input pins) through to why the slowest peripherals should be given the greatest interrupt priority (bet nobody on this list ever thought of that one!). Then after spending six months of your life on your publication, it’ll take a further sixty just to recoup the initial investment in time and money.

Go look at Heathkit Educational Courses… big binders full of basic but useful stuff (costing a fortune) but that’s exactly what it cost to produce. And to be really useful to everyone, that’s what it will end up as – you just won’t be able to do it for $19.95 and whilst a HTML/CD version is great, the instant you start selling it, it’ll be ripped-off and published for free somewhere on the net.

Back to my original question – “Where do you draw the line?”. Some time back a colleague of mine produced an excellent Accounts package for the PC. He was swamped with support calls with brainless questions like “What’s a Nominal Ledger?”, “What’s Depreciation?”, “What’s a Balance Sheet?”. Whilst his manual was great for setting up and using the product, he forgot that the users were totally inept, didn’t have a clue about Accounting and expected his product manual to be a complete Accounts Course.

In the same way, the PICBasic manual is a Product Manual and not a Programming Course. They provide you with information about a command or feature, and they make the assumption (perhaps wrong assumption) that you know what you’re doing. Which means any attempt to expand on that becomes a training course in programming and electronics.

Never mind Sleepless in Seattle, call me Cynical from London.

BobK
- 18th April 2006, 18:02
Hello,

I have to agree with Melanie on this. I have been learning for years. On Sunday mornings I sit at the keyboard and look at previous posts and have built a nice library of "How to do's" including the problems people have had and how it was resolved. I refer to the PBP manual as well as looking for someone else's comments on things.

I don't have a degree in programming or electronics but I do keep one comment in mind that Melanie stated some time ago, "It doesn't matter how it gets done, just as long as it works and that the customer is pleased with it when you're finished." I should also add that you should get paid well for what you did!

Yea, I'd like to see a better book, but every PIC book I got is the same, explaining the basic structure of the PIC, the instruction set, and a few applications. I have 3 books that I refer to frequently. But I spend hours working out the problems. I had one major problem last spring and I was aided by Charles from MELabs and Steve Collins. I have shared what I learned from these gentlemen several times with people on this forum.

I tried to buy Les Johnson's book in 2004 only to find that it didn't sell well, or so I was told. I finally got a copy from Melanie and I thought the book was great as it didn't take me back to the dinosaur age to explain where silicon came from. It just got right to the point and had examples in it. That's what I look for in a book. Beyond the basics. I also agree that many people that write to this forum are really in over their heads with their projects. I also follow a few other forums related to PICs and they are really about the same with questions from people just getting started.

To me this forum is all I need!!!!! Keep up the great work, everyone.

BobK

Bruce
- 18th April 2006, 18:13
Thanks for the feedback everyone. I don't have a release date yet since this is obviously a work in progress. Just wanted to get some ideas & feedback before moving along with the book.

All valid points Melanie. Thanks. I don't have a single book with all the answers in my own library, but I do have a few out of some 700+ that I keep in front of me, and refer to often.

The majority of them sit on the shelf collecting dust, but occasionally get opened when I run into something not covered in the few I keep in front of me.

Honestly, I don't think it would ever be possible for anyone to put together a single book with "all" the answers, or even one that would leave every single person that read it 100% satisfied. But it's nice to have a resource like this list to bounce around a few ideas & get some feedback before publishing one.

bartman
- 18th April 2006, 18:45
I'd like to see a book that addresses your basic idea. If I could use your book for examples and then know more about reading the data sheets to make things work that in itself would be a nice resource. I also prefer the "feel of paper" over an electronic version if I'm using it as a reference.

I understand what Melanie is saying however for a hobbyist as myself I'm not gonig to be taking night classes to learn the finer points of programming. I stick to small projects and use what I can find on the Internet and questions I ask to learn more. The data sheets are overhwhelming when trying to learn. I've figured out some problems on my own by using the data sheets, but something to help explain themnow that would be nice.

Perhaps people are saying, indirectly, that this forum should only be for professionals and if you want to learn anything go to school, don't look for a book to help because it can never exist? I hope not.

Bart

Melanie
- 18th April 2006, 19:03
Funny you should mention it Bruce. There was once a book with ‘everything’ in it. I picked a (well used) copy up in a very peculiar antiquariat in a Tokyo backstreet a couple of years back. Yeah I know I spend too much time in peculiar city backstreets, but I’m that kind of girl. The book dates back to the early 1970’s (before my time I would add!!) and was one of the ‘secret’ books which made Japan a manufacturing giant. It contained ready made and tested circuits and designs for just about anything electrical/electronic of the time. If you were a manufacturer and decided to start making transistor radios, you opened the book, chose the number of transistors you wanted to use, and picked a ready working design. It didn't matter if you were an industrial giant like Sony, or a garden shed outfit like Tama Denki, all you needed to do was adjust the layout to your plastic case (in many instances a design had several layouts already configured for available plastic cases) and you were in business. Maybe that’s what’s needed now… “101 ready uses for a 10F200”.. duh…

Melanie
- 18th April 2006, 20:00
Perhaps people are saying, indirectly, that this forum should only be for professionals and if you want to learn anything go to school, don't look for a book to help because it can never exist? I hope not.

No, not at all Bart.

I went into the costings of a book about three/four years ago. It doesn't pay. In the length of time taken to write something really good, I could have banked $100k doing something else. Which is why authors regurgitate the same old stuff to fill their books with cheap content (like BobK's mention of "The Sex life of Silicon"). It fills pages fast, doesn't tax the brain cells and is easily copied and edited from other publications. However, it can also be argued, that if you don't know the basics, sooner or later you're going to come unstuck (see questions on this forum for prize examples).

This forum isn't for professionals. Count the number of QUESTIONS posted by Bruce or Darrel or others - in total, you won't fill the fingers of one hand. What do we have that YOU don't have? Absolutely nothing. We use the same PICs, the same Compilers, the same Assemblers, the same Manual, the same Datasheets and have the same Search Engines and Internet Access. We KNOW where to look in the PIC Datasheet - they're all laid out the same way. You've seen one, you've seen them all. And if you don't know, then Adobe Acrobat's got a SEARCH button.

On a personal basis, I use the forum for two reasons... For one it's a BUG ALERT. If there's a problem, I'd like to know about it before I waste my time. I don't know about you, but my time is money, and I'd rather not waste too much of it with a problem that somebody may have spotted before me. The other reason is the forum is a distraction. Sometimes when at my PC struggling with the days problems, it's good to switch off, grab a coffee and do something less taxing for a few minutes. I've lost count the number of times I've posted to the forum whilst some client or other is on the phone talking complete rubbish. It's good practice for later in life when we eventually get married and need to ignore the prattlings of ones spouse whilst doing something else.

But I do insist that people make the effort to learn. After 20,000 posts telling people to use CMCON=7, not reading the manual, not looking in the Documentation, not looking in the Datasheet, not using the forum SEARCH, not doing an Internet Search, it does become a struggle to actually bother answering some questions with the same old answers time and time again. Looking at some questions, we're heading fast towards "What's a Resistor and Why and When should I use it?". That's why I said folks should go to school.

If Bruce does eventually come out with a good book - buy it. If only for the simple reason is that he will have invested a huge chunk of his life in creating it.

sayzer
- 19th April 2006, 14:50
But I do insist that people make the effort to learn. After 20,000 posts telling people to use CMCON=7, not reading the manual, not looking in the Documentation, not looking in the Datasheet, not using the forum SEARCH, not doing an Internet Search, it does become a struggle to actually bother answering some questions with the same old answers time and time again.

For what Melanie says above, I would like to propose a simple solution (if it does not solve, at least can slow down). So that people who do not even care about learning can at least get into thinking of it.

Here_it_is:

During a new member registration, the forum system can ask couple of simple questions (like a short quiz). The questions should be related to both PBP and basic electronics. As the users will try finding answers from the Internet, the quiz will have a time to complete (ex: five minutes) and if the all is wrong, no registration takes place. GoTo Example

Next:
If the user comes back to register again, the questions appear to be different (and keeps doing it each time).

The idea of having this quiz is to have the prospective member find the answers online and prove right there that the answers of simple questions can be found by simple search just like the answers of relatively difficult questions can be found by extensive search.

Without doing this but rather posting a simple question to the forum is simply “I do not care, post it today and have it tomorrow. Someone will answer it anyway, why spend time searching…” kind of behavior. GoTo So


Example:
Tip: Use the forum search to find the answers.

Question1:
How to turn off comparator in 12F675
Three minutes.

a. I do not know.
b. CMCON = %00000111
c. CMCON = 2 1/2
d. ADCON1=%11000001
e. b and d

Question2:
What makes a difference?
10 seconds

a. Knowing that the size matters
b. Pulling a pin high instead of pulling it low.
c. Having a nonworking code work but later on realize that it actually does not.
d. All of the above
e. a and b except k
f. None of the above


Queston3:
How to pull a pin high?
One minute

etc..
…..

GoTo Next


So:
This is just an idea.
Melanie is the administrator and may come up with something much better if of course something like this would indeed be useful.

IF "wanna read this post again" THEN GoTo Here_it_is


----------------

For Bruce's idea, I think that if the target audience is the people who have very little experience but try learning from somewhere, then why the book should not make a difference for them? For such an audience, of course, the language in the book should be quite simple and the beginning of the issues should be quite near to the zero.


END

DynamoBen
- 19th April 2006, 15:30
Let’s not implement any type of "tests" for new members. Keep in mind some ppl are just looking and my not have ventured into picbasic yet, others are just starting out in the electronics/PIC world.

I know it isn't always fun to answer the same questions but sometimes that’s what ppl need. I know from my tech support days that sometimes you end up answering the same question hundreds of times, however its the first time that person has heard it.

Best bet is to keep things as they are, answer questions as they come in and gently remind new members about searching. Something else to consider, if someone is new they may not know what to search for.

Bruce I think your book an whatever format can be an asset to the community.

Melanie
- 20th April 2006, 13:56
I'm not in favour of testing the Membership... but...

If this was my Forum, I'd insist that every question is accompanied by $10. Then at the end of the year, we can randomly pick a spot on the globe, all meet up and have ourselves a party. Kinda like a PIC 'Masters' conference but without the boring bits...

bartman
- 20th April 2006, 18:11
Thanks for the clarification Melanie.

I'd still like the book that is being described here. It may be that it is a waste of time and will never happen. I know from trying to find some reference materials to learn more that it is frustrating to get my hands on an actual "book" and not have to rely on electronic versions which are no where near as handy.

Personally, if I had that type of book I'd learn a lot more than from any other source including this forum. As it stands now, I learned BASIC programming over 25 years ago on an OS2 computer at school that featured about 25 commands, 4K of ROM, 4K of RAM and a 10 inch black and white monitor!

Of course, I had the chance to expand on that knowledge a bit since then, but that was the basics. What little I've done with PICs already exceeds anything I learned with basic, but there are operations in POC basic that still totally baffle me so using them to solve a problem takes on added frustration that a datasheet example book would help with.

Bart

Pic_User
- 7th June 2006, 01:51
Bruce,

After reading your (past) postings to this forum, I would certainly buy the book.
Your style is very clear and to the point.
Your knowledge is more than needed to write a helpful reference book.
If you decide not to follow up on the idea, the PicBASIC world would be a lesser place.
Please consider going ahead with it.


1. What do you feel would be missing from the information provided as outlined above?
I see nothing missing, you will find missing pieces as you write.


2. Would people prefer printed & bound VS a book in .HTML format?
A bound book would be best for me. If You do it on HTML, I still would buy it.


3. What do you feel is left unexplained, or could use more detailed information on, in the PBP manual?
It is hard to answer this as I don't know enough about PBP to know what I need.


4. Would you like to see a section on using the 18F series with PBP?
Yes, this is important even for PBP users that are comfortable with older PICs.


5. How about a section on using newer full-speed USB PIC's?
Again, I don't know enough to use them yet. What better reason to buy the book!

-Adam-

malc-c
- 22nd June 2006, 00:38
I've just read through this thread and thing that it's a wonderful idea. It's what's needed to suppliment the missing 10% that Melanie was on about.

I also agree that you have to draw the line somewhere, and I personally don't feel the need to have a three volume glossary explaining all the known electronic terms and phrases. It should be expected that the reader will google what a resistor or LED is if they don't know.

For my point of view I find PicBASIC Pro very similar to the old BASIC I used on my ZX81 all those years ago. I bet 90% of the forum membership can own up to typing something like

10 for i = 10 to 25
20 print "hello"
30 if i > 25 then CLS
40 next i

whilst walking round Dixons or some other computer shop. And PBP follows this logic.

I've only dabbled in PIC programming since 2004, and class myself strictly as a novice. I started by downloading samples from other web sites, and being shown how to write code in ASM. Frustrated by the commands I looked for a higher structured language for my simple projects, and ended up using JAL. However there are loads of issues with JAL, and one is its poor manual. For me not having an example of how to use each command and the correct syntax made me look for an alternative. I then looked at PBP and downloaded the manual. This and the examples (and the forum ;) ) helped make my mind up to go out and get a copy.

However I've found that on some occasions, it appears that there are other commands that are not detailed enough in the manual and it is this area that I feel the book will work. I've been searching Amazon and the like for a book just like this, more of a very detailed manual for PBP rather than the project books that are currently on the market, and I feel there is agap to be filled.

To answer another point Melanie raised, you will alwayd get the total knobhead that has the mental capacity of an ameaba cell. It happens in all forums and all subjects. I was a very active member of a herpetological society (thats someone with an interest in reptiles, amphibians and spiders) and we used to get asked really stupid questions, but that didn't stop two committee members writing a successful book.

Another comparason could be the Hynes manuals (this is for folk in the UK) - these used to contain a section at the front showing a complete stripdown of the engine of whatever car the manual was based on. Now I don't want to start any feminest arguments, but most women don't know how to check the oil let alone how to replace the piston rings, so now the later versions of the manual are really extensions of the cars handbook, but showing things in more detail.. like how to check and top up the oil !

Bruce, get writing and put me down for a copy..

bbazor
- 24th June 2006, 04:08
Bruce,

As a new member (just joined today), I would love to see a book and would purchase one for sure.

As you are aware, there are a few books out there now. Most of them do not go into configuration details for the smaller devices. They usually cover the 16F84 or the 16F876/7. I would like to see a section on the differences between the 12FXXX devices vs the 16F8X(X).

Some of the more experienced members at this site think that a book is not such a good idea. But, for many of us it would be great. Many of us don't have time to do heavy research due to other life priorities. The bottom line is that it would be a great resource for us that are not as well versed as you and the other experts.

Thank you,
Ben

O2_Guy
- 27th June 2006, 17:01
Bruce,

I think a book dedicated to only PBP is greatly needed! Lot's of books have info on both PicBasic and Pro, but if one wants to learn PBP only, they end up with less than 1/2 book for their money. I think most authors think that most people will learn PicBasic first, then PBP. I, like many people, never even dabbled in Basic Stamp or PicBasic. I like to see lots of written PBP code, could call me a visual learner. Good luck with your efforts!

schu4647
- 27th June 2006, 20:16
I agree with Melanie except for the completeness of the PBP manual. I think there are a lot of holes. A couple examples:

1)I posted a question on here about pulsin. Lets say I want to check the pulse length of a high signal. The book doesn't say if it waits for a leading edge, or if it will just start counting when the instruction starts and the pin is high. I never got an answer. I ended up puting an if then statement to start this command when the pin is low.

2)For LCDout you need to put a $FE for commands. The manual does not explain why this is. Someone in here told me that $FE makes the enable bit high while leaving it out lets the enable bit go low.

These are both things that you would have to either find in the manual or have developed PBP to know. I don't think that anyone but MELABS could write a book that explains this.

Luciano
- 27th June 2006, 21:51
Hi Bruce,

I have a title for your second book.



============================

Teaching math!

My pupils are:

Parallax Basic Stamp I
Parallax Basic Stamp II
MELabs PICBASIC Compiler
MELabs PICBASIC Pro Compiler

============================


* * *

To the user schu4647:

A great source of information is the Parallax Basic Stamp 2 manual and
the Parallax web site. Many of the Parallax Basic Stamp commands are
supported by the MELabs Compiler.

Example: Pulsin
See PDF page 97 and 98 of the link below:
http://www.pond.ie/pdf/BStamp.pdf

Best regards,

Luciano

nedtron
- 28th June 2006, 09:44
"Hello nedtron it appears that you have not posted on our forums in several weeks, why not take a few moments to ask a question, help provide a solution or just engage in a conversation with another member in any one of our forums?"

OK You asked for it . . .

Rehashing command syntax and data sheets seems redundant.

A book of good practical "real world" examples with code, concise explanation and "real" schematics would probably be useful and helpful.

I don't mean "Hello World" nor half baked Myke Predko projects.

Something more on the order of Don Lancaster's TTL Cookbook might work.

Perhaps a PIC Heathkit on steroids would do the trick?

Good practical examples provide a solid foundation and may communicate nuisances either to subtle or to verbose for logistic text.

Perhaps "PIC Micros for Dummies" would work?

Every programming text that I have seen neglects the very effective and infamous Bill Gates approach to programming "The Art of Stealing Other Peoples Code and Compiling It".

Personally, I can always steal and compile faster.

The Internet has made steal n' compile technology a reality.

I have seen countless engineers searching the Internet for drivers, active controls and source code.

GNU public domain code is the cat's meow!

A federal court found that the Pentium II had stolen embedded Cyrix code and inadvertently included the Cyrix trademark statement! (dumb)

National Semiconductor bought Cyrix and collected the big bucks from Intel. (smart)

Now I know that their are prima donnas who think that every byte of PIC Basic code that that they compile is a virgin holy creation of the highest order deserving Code Protect, Serialization and encryption techniques not yet devised by lowly Microchip.

However, I see it as the PIC game.

Parker Brothers gave us Monopoly and Microchip gave us PIC.

Both are great games allowing players to devise their individual strategies.

There are other great games such as Visual Basic, C++, FORTRAN and Assembly.

However, at the end of the day, Parker Brothers (Hasbro), Microsoft, Borland and Microchip are the real winners!

And yes, we were well entertained . . .

Or it least I was . . .

I kind of like this title “Steal This Code & Give the Bucks to Charity”.

Perhaps, I have over elaborated and the title "RTFM" might just work after all?

Got to go, there's some USB HID code looking awfully good!

Ned

air1kdf
- 29th June 2006, 04:47
I would spend a chapter on the bootloader, and just putting some code on a chip. Basically talking to the chip, and flash an LED. Great start, minimal code.

I would ignore writing anything on each command, as a search or reading the manual will work everytime.

Keep in mind that a chip is all about IO. Spend a lot of time on this (like the rest of the book). Digital input, analog input (linear and logarithmic). Maybe a temperature sensor (thermisistor). Bluetooth, 802.11a/b/g, ethernet, RS232 (both internal and Max232a, etc). Output to LED, LCD, Touch screen, data logger on chip and external stuff like SD card, eeprom, X10, etc.

If you had projects like home automation, and logging, maybe a thermostat, you will sell a bunch of books, and I'd buy one. If you went into commands I'm out, a waste of my time and money. Don't teach logic, that can be obtained anywhere. Fundamental circuits are OK though because there are way more programmers than there are circuit designers.

Always explain why you are selecting a command over another one, or a specific circuit.

malc-c
- 29th June 2006, 09:51
If you had projects like home automation, and logging, maybe a thermostat, you will sell a bunch of books, and I'd buy one. If you went into commands I'm out, a waste of my time and money.

But then it becomes just another "project" book which would also require the reader to have extensive knowledge on how to build what could turn out to be complicate CCt's or PCB's if they want to use them. The other option would be to simply have a subroutine that does one of these functions with a simple diagram on how to connect each sensor / relay / etc rather than a full blown program.

The thing is, looking back on this thread, it originated in 2003.. it's now 2006 and Bruce has not added any comments since April of this year... so the book may be a long time in coming ???

Luciano
- 29th June 2006, 10:30
Originally Posted by malc-c

The thing is, looking back on this thread, it originated in 2003.. it's now 2006 and Bruce has not added any comments since April of this year... so the book may be a long time in coming ???

Wrong!

This thread was started on 14th April 2006, 21:44.

Best regards,

Luciano

malc-c
- 29th June 2006, 10:38
Whoops - I looked at Bruce's joining date - sorry !!!!!

air1kdf
- 30th June 2006, 18:03
But then it becomes just another "project" book which would also require the reader to have extensive knowledge on how to build what could turn out to be complicate CCt's or PCB's if they want to use them. The other option would be to simply have a subroutine that does one of these functions with a simple diagram on how to connect each sensor / relay / etc rather than a full blown program.

The thing is, looking back on this thread, it originated in 2003.. it's now 2006 and Bruce has not added any comments since April of this year... so the book may be a long time in coming ???

I think that we are talking about the same thing. I didn't mention nor imply anything complicated. Unless you consider a logarithmic type of sensor, which are simple to connect, but a quick search on this forum shows no results on how to implement the conversion in code.

I would also like to add power supplies, since every project needs one.

Urmish Mehta
- 9th July 2006, 04:41
Bruce:
It would be nice if a book is written with an intent you have outlined in your first e-mail.
All I can say is, I would go for it.
Urmish

Bruce
- 10th August 2006, 00:13
Thanks for the outstanding feedback everyone. It does help.

Darrel Taylor
- 10th August 2006, 08:33
Most of the books I buy have a page in the middle that opens up to about 2 pages long. Usually has a nice picture there.

But if I were looking for a PBP book, it would probably cover Include files, and Macro's. :)

Oops, 4 months late request. :( Doh!

DT

Melanie
- 10th August 2006, 09:07
You need to get out more Darrel... the definition between software and softwear is blurring...

Demon
- 19th August 2006, 22:17
Well, I hope Bruce DOES come up with a book.

As for the comments about those in way over their heads, you're darn right I am. I've said it from day #1 and I'm still lost, ask Steve. I started with zero electronic knowledge, just basic electricity about DC, AC and don't take a leak on a wall outlet.

Now I can program an 18F2550 and have it interface with a PC by fast speed USB, I'm kinda proud of that even if the program still has hiccups. I've learned how to etch my own double-sided PCBs and use surface mount components.

If we all stayed with what we knew, nothing would get done.

Robert
:)

Archangel
- 22nd August 2006, 05:25
Write the book Bruce, you may not get rich, the True Reward for the effort,
is in the Satisfaction you get in having done a job well. CASH IS WONDERFUL,
it is however a secondary pursuit. And REMEMBER, there are still PC users out there still trying to figure out," Which key is the ANY KEY?", which is to say, nothing is ever obvious to everyone, you may need to write 2 or 3 books.

JS

BTW
PDFs are great to yank out a few pages and take to the bench, but PDF books are really hard to read in the bathroom!

Luciano
- 22nd August 2006, 09:56
BTW PDFs are great to yank out a few pages and take to the bench, but PDF books are really hard to read in the bathroom!
This conclusion cannot be a definitive conclusion but rather a subjective conclusion....

http://img10.picsplace.to/15/thumbs/br01.JPG (http://img11.picsplace.to/img10/15/br01.JPG)
(Click to enlarge)

Luciano

sayzer
- 22nd August 2006, 14:01
Luciano,

A projector toward that wall for presentation purposes would be a good addition.

bbarney
- 22nd August 2006, 15:46
Hey Luciano
I'am curious where you got the picture of Bill Gates bathroom :)
and believe it or not Donald Trump has one too

mister_e
- 22nd August 2006, 17:01
PDfs are great but can be copied and distribute too easy. I prefer paper touch. Usually this how most PDF ends up here.... let's see a PIC datasheet.

kallis
- 28th September 2006, 12:49
cheerz.....

bbazor
- 15th February 2007, 04:04
Bruce,

Any update on the book? Is it going to happen anytime soon?

Bruce
- 15th February 2007, 14:07
I'm about half way there, but I can't honestly say when it will be finished.
It's something I can only work on in my spare time.

mister_e
- 15th February 2007, 18:58
How on earth dare you to have ANY spare time? :D

Urmish Mehta
- 4th July 2007, 15:55
Bruce:
Would you please post any updates on your PBP book? Or is it already out and I missed it?
Thanks,
Urmish

T.Jackson
- 4th July 2007, 16:51
Be hard business writing books. Big gamble if you don't have a guaranteed publisher lined up for it. Heck you could spend a year of your time only to find that no one wants to publish it. I love the thought of writing a book on making games in Visual Basic, so close, I'm almost all there with it. Too skeptical about seriously doing it though.

malc-c
- 4th July 2007, 22:22
Well Bruce started this thread in April 2006, so if Bruce is about half way through by mid February '07..... It should be in the shops in time for this coming Christmas :) :)

Normnet
- 4th July 2007, 23:36
A new 3rd edition of "The Art of Electronics" by Horowitz and Hill was close to being published like a year or two ago. There were preorders taken. An electronics Bible. I know one problem is what to include as electronics keeps changing.

Anyone know the current status?

Norm

precision
- 5th July 2007, 15:02
Don't forget to explain tons of config FUSES of 18F series in detail.

elproducts
- 25th August 2007, 16:46
I was just cruising the forum after being gone for quite a while and saw this string of posts on Bruce's book. I wish him luck. When I wrote "Programming PIC Microcontrollers with PicBasic" I had no idea how much work would be involved. For every single page printed there were 15 in the trash. It took me 2 1/2 years from start to publisher release and by then half the book was a bit dated. In the end though it's worth it if you help just one person get started. The email feedback you get is mostly positive and that is one of the rewards.
As Melanie stated it doesn't pay well for the hours put in. You do it because you want to pass on your knowledge and help future generations of programmers get started with the art of programming. At least that's why I still do it.

Keep plugging away Bruce. I'm sure it will be a great book.

nomad
- 1st October 2007, 17:59
As Melanie said, a pdf or html version will quickly end up as a free download link on pirate boards. looking forward to it. (erm, the book, not stealing it.) so how does pulsin work again?

AndrewC
- 30th July 2008, 17:43
Any progress on the book ? As others have said (and without putting anyone else's down) Bruce's code snips and suggestions are always valued.

Bruce
- 30th July 2008, 18:36
Hi Andrew,

Thanks for the kudos. It's a lot slower process than I had first thought, but it's around 3/4
done now. I'm not big on books with bugs in code or schematics, so I'm taking my time to
build & test every single thing that goes into it. That and breaking down all the technical
mumbo-jumbo from PIC datasheets into laymans' terms is the real time hog.

Also - changes to the compiler and a ton of new PICs' set it back a long way.

Gotta pay the rent 1st, and work on the book in whatever spare time I can find, but I'll try
to have it done before I croak - or everything changes again...;o}

AndrewC
- 1st August 2008, 12:51
Here's an idea in the how-to-eat-a-chocolate-elephant spirit: why not start publishing/selling it in chapters / sections ? Yes there are piracy problems with a downloadable version but you will get some return and if you try and wait for the entire finished product and sell as paper&ink you might find that the ever advancing wave of progress means you can never publish because the first half is already obsolete.

Andrew

grounded
- 1st August 2008, 15:18
lots of pictures, no big words, mulitable examples, low pin count flash chips (12f675, 16f676),
Bi-Direction serial communication (may something like the LanC protocol), RF,Data,
and most important "data sheets for dummies"
just to give you a few ideals

when and were do I send my money.
grounded

ruijc
- 1st August 2008, 16:45
Hi Bruce,

I'm very interested in your book also.


when and were do I send my money.

:) and it make's 2

.

O2_Guy
- 2nd August 2008, 16:09
Count me in too! Please keep it to PBP and PBPL. Most books just repeat everything in PB and PBP, so when you're done you can only flash LED's. The formats used for the advanced BS2 books are good, too. Timers and more advanced topics especially the internal register settings, and direct reference to the datasheet sections, comparators Vref and the like. Goog luck with the project.

dhouston
- 2nd August 2008, 17:15
Bruce,

I guess I missed this thread when it started. And I've just scanned it quickly so I apologize if I am restating something already suggested.

I find the PBP manual fairly complete except for its dearth of examples. More detailed examples would eliminate a lot of questions or, at the very least, justify a RTFM response.

As for whether it should be bound or HTML of PDF, it's simple to offer both bound and PDF through something like http://www.lulu.com who do a really high quality one-off bound book at reasonable prices and with little upfront cost to the author.

I have this book http://www.pb-beginners.co.uk/ and I'm sure its author would answer your questions about the self publishing process.

Bruce
- 5th August 2008, 00:04
Thanks Dave. Lulu looks like one way to go for the self-publishing end. I do plan to offer the book on CD as well - in .html format. this would allow people to download new updates, projects & new code examples.

Luciano
- 5th August 2008, 09:50
Hi Bruce,

Why don't you pre-sell your book to your readers before it goes to print?

1. Finish your book.
2. Get an estimate for the book printing job.
3. Put a sample chapter on your web site and do some advertisement for your book.
4. Pre-sell your book (paper version only).
5. When the presell covers the printing cost (150%), go to print with your book.
6. Send an-email to your readers with a picture of the book and ask for the money.
7. Cash the money and send the book to your readers. (Paper version only).
8. Repeat steps 4 to 7 for book reprint.
9. When no more reprint, sell your book as e-book from your web site.
10. Give a free e-book to all the readers who have purchased the paper version of the book.

In case 5 is not achieved, then you can sell your book as e-book and avoid financial loss.

* * *

I am sure your book will be a must-read for PicBasic developers.

I wish you great success with this project!

Best regards,

Luciano

Archangel
- 8th August 2008, 05:51
I just bought a book by a well known PIC author, which was self published. In my opinion self published work suffers 1 serious drawback, and that is, no objective but nasty fanny flogging editor to keep you on the straight and narrow. The book I bought is about 200 pages of near nothing. The first 1/2 detailed how to install the MPLAB suite , the second half had more whitespace than anything else. The margins, headers and footers are huge. The book required several chapters to blink an LED, and featured about 8 near full page pictures of the same PICKIT demo board. That said, the book was printed in USA, on a very nice high quality white paper. Aside from endless repeats of the little code he actually provided,(space filler?), I found this book to be useful as a primmer, it should have either been trimmed to about 50 pages or printed in enormus type to fill the 200 pages.
Bruce, your website has 10 times the code, than any 5 books I have seen, and your code is always well written, I hope you will publish the book, I will buy it, just avoid the pitfalls I listed above and you WILL have a winner.

Glenn
- 1st December 2008, 01:22
Well.. "late reply" but the book still seem to be "in progress" so :)

I own two picbasic books and the picbasic manual.

PBP manual from MElabs (came with PBP)
PIC microcontroller project book by John Iovine (Bought it new)
PIC robotics by John Iovine. (Bought it used very cheap on ebay)

The far most useful is the PBP manual, PMPB is good in many ways,
and the last one (PIC robotics) isn't that useful, that is more aimed to people
that never used PB/PBP and have very little knowledge of electronics in general.

The main bad thing about PMPB is that it covers ALOT of junk you're not interested in, like how you setup your software and how pbp/pb works on the commandline and so on, this stuff is already covered in the manual! ..I have no use at all of the first chapters, and I guess that goes for most people.

I (and I guess most people ?) would likle to see a manual that goes in more deep into different things.. like one chapter about sensors (wich actually is present in PMPB) that covers different types of sensors, how they work, different ideas on how to connect them, and how to use PBP to read them.. Ideas and examples, More solutions than a manual.

..I also dont like the fact that the books covers both PB and PBP, I guess thats great for the author that can sell the book to more people, but if you already have PBP you arnt that interested in PB really.

Archangel
- 23rd December 2008, 09:13
Hi Bruce,
BTW, I am going to want my copy autographed !

T.Jackson
- 24th December 2008, 10:57
I think Luciano has offered some good sound advice ...

Incidentally, I am planning to write a book on video game programming in Visual Basic .NET, and I will be taking a similar direction. But my main motivation is not for money. I have produced a near identical clone of Pacman in .NET, and I believe that I have a lot of knowledge to offer with this book.

Take care all,

Trent Jackson

nomad
- 24th December 2008, 11:19
well, one copy anyways. want to send one to a friend of mine, and it'd be cool if it was signed. lol i see a limited collectors edition autographed copy in the future? you can get Melanie to come up with all the leather accessories.

Archangel
- 24th December 2008, 23:35
. . . you can get Melanie to come up with all the leather accessories.
OOOO you Devil . . . watch it or you might get spanked . . .

T.Jackson
- 25th December 2008, 03:24
Interestingly, I've found the devil, just down the road from me at Wisemans Ferry Rd Gunderman NSW Australia 2775.

Get ready to run Sue.

gtvmarty
- 14th October 2009, 22:36
Hopefully the book is still moving along......

All i can suggest is to cover the PICBASIC commands in a MORE depth.

Most of the PBP manual is a cruel joke to say the least, the "examples" (for want of a better term) are very light, and could have easily added a few more variations of how to use the instructions in different scenario's.

I have several other PBP-Project books which all cover PBP commands too, However, they've done nothing more than COPY the text out of the PBP manual, so having those books hasn't been advantageous to me.
(i bought these books to learn more about using PBP in various projects, and feel somewhat short-changed from them).

My apologies if i'm harsh, but i'd like to see a unique PBP book come out, not a duplicate of the manual :)

Regards,
Marty.

Sneaky-geek
- 15th October 2009, 02:16
Hello Bruce,
If you do get your book finished/published And if autographed, please jus let me know WHERE to send my $75.00 contribution to the care and feeding of BRUCE.
BTW The SAME OFFER for Darrel and Melanie. Heck considering the efforts put in by all of you, if there was a collective effort, I might even go as far as $125. Seriously, you guys and gals are in a league of your own.

NOW BEFORE THE FLAMES START, let me say that THE LIST IS NOT COMPLETE.
There are MANY OTHERS, Steve and Jerson also come to mind.
What I am saying is this .....
REWARD those who publish outstanding works!!!!

Sneaky-geek

Acetronics2
- 15th October 2009, 13:30
Hi, GTV-Geek

You do forget a full MINE of PBP enlightments ...

The Basic Stamp Application manuals ... ( have a look before answering ... lol )

http://www.parallax.com/tabid/440/Default.aspx

But, as You'll also understand there ... it's a learning GUIDE.

YOU WON'T LEARN TO USE PBP IN A BOOK BUT ON YOUR BREADBOARD ...


Alain

gtvmarty
- 15th October 2009, 14:26
Silly me to look thru my Picbasic Book to learn about Picbasic...

I would have never thought to look at someone elses book to learn about PBP. :cool:

That's it ! i'm gonna race out and buy a Linux book to study windows XP. :rolleyes:

mackrackit
- 15th October 2009, 15:04
That's it ! i'm gonna race out and buy a Linux book to study windows XP. :rolleyes:
It would help you understand what Microsoft was/is trying to do with vista :)
But I think they skipped a couple of chapters.

jellis00
- 16th October 2009, 07:55
Bruce,
I look forward to your book!
Make sure you include a tutorial on how to set config fuses and where to find the info for most PIC chips. This was a major learning curve hurdle for me when I was learning PICBASIC and how to program PIC MCUs.
Regards, jellis00

Scampy
- 24th October 2009, 12:33
Three and a half years on... is the book anywhere near completion ?

Thing is that since it's conception PBP has probably been released with 3 or 4 revisions....

housefull
- 23rd February 2010, 20:16
Hello All,

I'm working on a book for PBP, and would like to solicit some feedback on a
few things before moving along with it.

Primarily, I'm looking for feedback on what people would prefer as for content
and book format.

The book focuses on two major areas.

1. How to use each PBP command & a detailed introduction on what each
command requires the user to setup manually before using the command.

For example; What do "I" need to do first before using ADCIN, HSEROUT, etc,
and when it may be more advantageous/appropriate for someone to configure
certain hardware registers/peripherals manually. A good example of this is for
someone using hardware PWM, or looking to use the PIC hardware USART
without the over-head of PBP commands, and for added flexibility.

I.E. as some folks already know, using a PIC with 3 hardware PWM ports,
HPWM is obviously not the way to go.

2. How to read & interpret those 500+ page PIC data sheets. This involves
putting info in PIC data sheets into laymans terms that the novice can
actually understand.

So, my questions are;

1. What do you feel would be missing from the information provided as
outlined above?

2. Would people prefer printed & bound VS a book in .HTML format?

The book was originally designed in HTML format. I.E. it will come on CD
ROM,and viewable with any browser. This is due to the heavy graphic
content that makes this type of book prohibitively expensive to publish and
allows me to keep pricing down.

By including a large number of graphics, the book can explain things in great
detail with actual photo's & schematics. My argument for this approach is that
nothing is left to the imagination. The picture/schematic shows everything in
detail.

3. What do you feel is left unexplained, or could use more detailed information
on, in the PBP manual?

4. Would you like to see a section on using the 18F series with PBP?

5. How about a section on using newer full-speed USB PIC's?

Note that my intention is not to produce a PBP project book. I would prefer
to make it a book that leaves the reader with a firm understanding of how
PBP works, and how to read & interpret PIC data sheets. I think once these
two areas are understood the reader can produce pretty much anything they
want with PBP, and a PIC.

Any & all feedback would be appreciated.

Bruce
This sounds like a book most people here really need myself included especially item 2 how to wade through that datasheet.
May be a section on porting code from asm to picbasic nothing to elaborate just something to help people get started.
I think the cd option is the best way to keep it affordable
I volunter too proof read your book when it's done
Steve with over 1900 post's you've already wrote a book

circuitpro
- 24th February 2010, 19:53
PLEASE make it in the form of a PRINTED book, (or a PDF that WE can print)! Some of us old timers still prefer an open book on the table, with a highlighter, to anything else!

I'm in for a copy.

Kenjones1935
- 17th March 2010, 16:00
Bruce,

I too like the feel of paper. I find that scanning the printed page is easier than "FIND NEXT".

Please include an INDEX. That is a big issue for me.

Please include a technical description of the path from BASIC to ASSEMBLER to HEX. Please tell us what is an INCLUDE file. What is a MACRO. What is an EXTENSION.

Your good book combined with MikroElektonika's PIC "MICROCONTROLLERS with examples in Assembly Language" would make all this much easier.

Ken

mtripoli
- 18th March 2010, 17:22
I agree with Melanie except for the completeness of the PBP manual. I think there are a lot of holes. A couple examples:

1)I posted a question on here about pulsin. Lets say I want to check the pulse length of a high signal. The book doesn't say if it waits for a leading edge, or if it will just start counting when the instruction starts and the pin is high. I never got an answer. I ended up puting an if then statement to start this command when the pin is low.

2)For LCDout you need to put a $FE for commands. The manual does not explain why this is. Someone in here told me that $FE makes the enable bit high while leaving it out lets the enable bit go low.

These are both things that you would have to either find in the manual or have developed PBP to know. I don't think that anyone but MELABS could write a book that explains this.

There's more to these statements than it appears on the surface (and why I applaud anyone that writes a book, does tech support, etc). I see many posts referring to commands from the PBP manual like #1 here, but if you look in the manual they just don't hold up. This is a good example: "The book doesn't say if it waits for a leading edge,"...
Read the first paragraph from the manual (I broke it out into "steps"):
1.) Measures pulse width on Pin (ok, good, that's what we want).
2.) If State is zero (0), the width of a low pulse is measured (measured width placed in Var)
3.) If State is one (1), the width of a high pulse is measured (measured width stored in Var).
4.) If the pulse edge never happens...Var is set to zero (0).
Skipping ahead...
5.) PULSIN normally waits a maximum of 65535 counts before it determines there is no pulse ( which can be adjusted via a DEFINE).

So, the manual does in fact tell you exactly what it is doing. How much more information needs to be contained in the explanation for it to be clear what's going on? Is there a different manual than the one I have (I've bought PBP for myself many years ago, as well as for three different companies I've done consulting work for and got the same manual). Or, as is so often the case, has someone assumed that they "knew" what the command did?

On the second statement about the LCDOUT command I ask (and this kind of goes to what Melanie said) "How much information is enough"? The first paragraph clearly says "PBP supports LCD modules with a Hitachi 44780 controller or equivalent". To me, this means more than RTFM; it means read ALL the data for ALL the components used in a design. I have a copy of the 44780 data sheet and understand what all the commands are doing and why. This goes to what I refer to the current state of "Lego electronics"; plug stuff together and assume it will work. When it doesn't do what you "thought" blame the module, code "example", compiler - everyone but yourself.

No one book is a panacea. No one reference can tell you everything.

Mike Tripoli

david1800
- 10th April 2010, 06:23
I have recently retired and although I have been wishing to get to grips with PIC programming for a number of years, previous work commitments meant there was never enough free time. I have dabbled in electronics so have a rudimentary understanding of the hardware aspects but am now finding it difficult to find publications pitched at the right level to get started with PBPro.

What I would like to see in the book is a section for those who know nothing. For example, I see a code such as ADCON = 7 and it's not apparent to a complete beginner what this means (I know now). I imagine that there may be many like me, who given the base information in a clear and concise form, can work forward, but without it will struggle, not start or may give up.

Clearly any technical publication is always a balance between being oversimplified and overcomplex. In my experience in other fields they can fail to meet their audiences needs by leaving holes between the simple introduction then leaping into the complexities. You feel as though you are getting to grips, then are left floundering. This can be difficult for an expert to put together and can benefit by testing on novices. (Happy to help)

I don't think this introduction needs to be overly long, but it does need to be carefully constructed to provide a sound understanding.

Others are much better placed to comment on other aspects of what should be included based on their actual experiences, however I would look for plenty of worked examples to help me construct my own programs.

I hope this is helpful

regards

David

Bill Legge
- 3rd May 2010, 02:07
Bruce,

I think you were intending to write a PIC book some time ago?

If you are still going to do it, I'd be pleased to provide some input, not because of any technical skills on my part but I started learning about PICs three years ago and the difficulties/mysteries are still fairly fresh in my mind.

Let me know if you want some input.

The 'two stepper' code is working very well and I've posted it on this site. The plotter scanner is great fun and the mechanics are pretty smooth - courtesy of cheap Chinese linear bearing that appeared on eBay a few month ago (About $10 each instead of $+++ for the 'proper' ones).

Regards Bill Legge

Ioannis
- 3rd May 2010, 12:40
Also a good idea would be, if Darrel permits of course, to include the DT-INTS as they are better that the ON INTS of the lanquage itself.

Ioannis

Megahertz
- 9th June 2010, 11:37
Is the book out yet?

CuriousOne
- 3rd October 2021, 22:56
Why this thread popped up as a "recent" ? :D

Ioannis
- 4th October 2021, 13:55
Who knows? Maybe someone did edit a post? Or delete?

Ioannis