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c_moore
- 19th September 2016, 11:25
Hello I have PBP3 and MicroCode Studio Plus and MicroCode Studio keeps crashing. Is anyone else seeing this?

HenrikOlsson
- 19th September 2016, 13:10
Sure, several people have reported issues over the years but Melabs doesn't write that piece of software so they just point you to Mecanique who in turn claims they've never had such an issue and what they can't repeat they won't bother looking into. The general oppinion among those who HAVEN'T had a problem is that it's something specific with all the computers that DOES have a problem rather than with MCSP. Basically it sucks, big time. And proper integration into MPLABX is a mess without official and current documentation.

See, this thread (http://support.melabs.com/threads/1169-MicroCode-Studio-issues) and this thread (http://support.melabs.com/threads/996-Big-Bug) for starters. And please please report it to Melabs, you might even want to call it in on their support line since apparently no one has done that before.

/Henrik.

c_moore
- 19th September 2016, 22:34
Hello Henrik,

Thanks for the info. I would think also that Charles would get involved as it is the IDE for his compiler. I will contact David and see what he says. Thanks.

picster
- 8th February 2017, 16:16
I too, have this issue intermittently (and extremely annoyingly). Part of the problem is reliable reproduction of the crash. I'm thinking it may have something to do with having 2 video processors on the Dell XPS laptop I've been using (one being NVIDIA), so am about to try another laptop to see if it resolves it. I'll let you know if I see any difference.

If you find anything else out, please post it here.

Thanks

HenrikOlsson
- 8th February 2017, 20:54
Yeah, just spent an hour trying to help Bill in this thread (http://www.picbasic.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=22360) and the bloody thing crashed 5 times during that period.
I'm farily sure it does not crash if just left sitting there, it always seems to be when I'm typing.

I'm starting to think it MIGHT have something to do with the serial terminal but I'm far from certain.

/Henrik.

Normnet
- 8th February 2017, 22:43
Anyone interested in FineLineIDE please PM me and I will provide a download link for the latest FineLineIDE BETA. FL is easy to trial as it can be simply cut copied, pasted or deleted as all FL files are contained within the directory of your choice. FL is also free as in free beer.

Norm

picster
- 12th February 2017, 15:23
Mine never crashes when "sitting idle", always when typing, most often when typing comments (?) maybe because I type a lot of them.

Is anyone else who is experiencing this issue using a dual-video card machine? Mine has both "NVIDIA GeForce GT 550M" and "Intel HD Graphics Family" listed under Display adapters (Device Manager), running Win7/64 - DELL XPS L702X

Any hardware similarities here that are shared by others with this cursed problem?

c_moore
- 22nd February 2017, 12:28
I did contact David about it and he indicated he would look into it. I have not herd any thing about.

picster
- 6th March 2017, 17:01
Had my first crash on another system after having used it for about 3 weeks... same old same old - ALWAYS seems to happen when typing in 'comments. I am beginning to wonder if it's related to the formatting properties that are set for comments, changing the color to green and the font to italics. Any ideas on that one? I know it's obscure but... it ALWAYS seems to happen while typing comments. I have now set to standard text for comments (NOT italics) to see if it makes a difference.

astanapane
- 20th March 2017, 19:51
im always about to purchase the PBP3, but i see it is not worth it as many people having a problem. Why the MicroStudio Plus is seperated than the PBP3 silver or gold?

In case they fix the issue with all the crashes and i would like to give it a try, then i have to purchase both PBP3 Silver or Gold and the Microcode Studio plus?

HenrikOlsson
- 20th March 2017, 20:00
To be clear: The problem has nothing to do with PBP3, it works fine and is Worth every cent IMHO.
The problem is with MCSPX - which you don't HAVE to use (but it's damn handy when it doesn't crash). Why not start with using the free version of MicroCodeStudio and see if it works on your machine Before possibly upgrading to MCSPX?

/Henrik.

picster
- 21st March 2017, 12:41
It's far too early to be definitive, BUT since I changed the default font from italic to normal for 'comments, I have NOT witnessed a crash. Before that I noted that it seemed to always occur while I was typing comments/remarks, hence the font was being processed and changed on the fly accordingly. I'll advise if I see another crash.

picster
- 22nd March 2017, 19:15
It's far too early to be definitive, BUT since I changed the default font from italic to normal for 'comments, I have NOT witnessed a crash. Before that I noted that it seemed to always occur while I was typing comments/remarks, hence the font was being processed and changed on the fly accordingly. I'll advise if I see another crash.

If others can try this too, to see if it works for them, it would help to determine if it's just one of those "lucky streaks" or not. Save often :)

HenrikOlsson
- 22nd March 2017, 19:59
I'll certainly give this a try when I'm coding PBP next time. Thanks!

astanapane
- 11th April 2017, 09:40
first of all i would like to try the silver edition. But i would also like to try the microcode studio if it is fixed for crashing.

Then, i realized that when i push on the silver version icon in case i would like to buy it (£76.40) : i get the following error.

404 Error: File Not Found

The requested file may no longer exist,
or it may have been moved

Please visit our site: www.crownhill.co.uk
In this site i get a different price, including VAT goes up to: (£117.97 Inc. VAT) = 138.287099 EUR or 146.414091 USD. Not good, not good at all. This way makes plenty of people to look for an alternative method to have the PBP3 and Microcode Plus.

Can anyone explain please?

HenrikOlsson
- 11th April 2017, 12:06
I can tell you that MCSPX is not "fixed" as there's been no new version for several years. If you're among the lucky ones where it doesn't crash - great. If you're among the ones where it does crash I'm at this point fairly sure you either going to have to live with it or find another IDE.

I've just built myself a new computer, running Windows10, it's going to be interesting to see if it continues to act up.

I don't quite understand what you mean regarding the pricing. Are you saying that you think it's expensive in general or are you saying that the price is different than on some other site? Where does it say £76.40?
Buying directly from MeLabs is $119.95+VAT which puts in the same ballpark figuring 20-25% VAT.

If you want free you can always use the Student edition, 9 supported PICs 12F, 16F and 18F families. Or you can look at the free version of Proton which supports 19 different PICs.

/Henrik.

Ioannis
- 11th April 2017, 12:24
There is always the alternative of the FL IDE by Norm.

Ioannis

Normnet
- 11th April 2017, 13:25
There is always the alternative of the FL IDE by Norm.

Ioannis

See v3.3 at FineLineIDE Wiki (http://www.picbasic.co.uk/forum/content.php?r=275-FineLineIDE)
FineLineIDE is a one folder install (no registry entry's) so you can cut, copy or delete as you wish.
FL saves a recovery file every 30 seconds and prompt’s to restore on restart if improper shutdown or crash.

Also beta testers needed for 3.76
Added line step which allows stepping back and forth through previous lines with out utilizing undo or redo.
Now 10 programmer tabs in place of 5.
Added capability to program from a hex file from any programmer tab.
Added "My highlighter" for user specified highlighting of specific text for color, bold, italic and underline.
Unicode now supported (non English text).
FineLineIDE BETA v3.76 download (https://app.box.com/s/69uk1r86rib6pq6kg37lvwjpma71k0xk)
Change .xyz extension to .exe

Please discuss FL on the PicBasic FineLineIDE forum (http://www.picbasic.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=14100)


Norm

Demon
- 11th April 2017, 21:46
Does it still crash if you run as administrator?

picster
- 12th April 2017, 01:47
Try turning off italics for comments... so far so good here.

picster
- 12th April 2017, 01:49
Crashes in admin mode or not... try turning off italics for remarks... that's my latest attempt in circumventing the problem.

picster
- 20th May 2017, 16:49
Just crashed - so much for the italics theory. HOWEVER, this was STILL a case of crashing while I was typing in a comment field, which ALWAYS seems to be the case. (cross-posted)

Ioannis
- 20th May 2017, 17:49
Hmm, Comments are necessary of course. What if you type the comments this way:

keep typing WITHOUT the ; or ' and after finishing typing get back to the first character and type the ; or ' symbol.

Not the best idea but maybe it will help until the problem is solved.

Ioannis

picster
- 22nd January 2018, 15:40
This is still happening. It seems to come in fits and spurts, no issues for a couple of weeks, then bam, crash after crash of the program. Excessively annoying, particularly when there's no time-based autosave built-in. Yesterday I had about 8 program crashes before I walked away.

Has anyone experiencing this incessant problem tried any of the following and STILL had a MCSP crash:

1) running it as the ONLY program? I usually have a couple of other programs running (typically have a web browser open as well as a PDF for the PIC I'm using)

2) disconnecting from the internet and running only while disconnected? Keeps other programs from doing their own online thing?

3) concurrent with #2, disable Microsoft Security Essentials (or other)?

I'm thinking of doing all 3 at once to see if it possibly helps.

This is paid software, and it's utter *BS* that this should be an issue for a number of people who have paid to use it and are being plagued with this problem. I know it's *not* an MELabs product, but perhaps MELabs could step in and put some pressure on since it's a "cooperative" product that's advertised for use with PBPx (hence pointing there for sales).

Archangel
- 1st February 2018, 02:18
This is paid software, and it's utter *BS* that this should be an issue for a number of people who have paid to use it and are being plagued with this problem. I know it's *not* an MELabs product, but perhaps MELabs could step in and put some pressure on since it's a "cooperative" product that's advertised for use with PBPx (hence pointing there for sales).
You know how difficult it is to write a program for a pic and have it work, ALWAYS work for your specific PIC which has NO OTHER programs working the background. Any program you write for a PIC is a thousand times more simple than any program running on a PC
Now Imagine your program must run on every PIC without modification, while other programs demand the same resources.
There are application and programs that do not play well with others, especially anti virus software. You can do things to assist MCS, like give it higher permissions than some other programs, also change the mode it's running in WIN ,XP,98 etc. In this case BS might mean Better stratagy In ANY event getting mad or frustrated is anti useful.
sometimes Youtube crashes our computer Full on BSOD and no other ap does this.

picster
- 2nd February 2018, 14:50
You know how difficult it is to write a program for a pic and have it work, ALWAYS work for your specific PIC which has NO OTHER programs working the background. Any program you write for a PIC is a thousand times more simple than any program running on a PC
Now Imagine your program must run on every PIC without modification, while other programs demand the same resources.
There are application and programs that do not play well with others, especially anti virus software. You can do things to assist MCS, like give it higher permissions than some other programs, also change the mode it's running in WIN ,XP,98 etc. In this case BS might mean Better stratagy In ANY event getting mad or frustrated is anti useful.
sometimes Youtube crashes our computer Full on BSOD and no other ap does this.

Perhaps without the benefit of context and reviewing the history of background postings, my prior post might seem disrespectful or overly judgmental.

A couple of things of note here for your consideration. First, I'm not attacking MELABS software. PBP itself is, and always has been, in my experience, reliable, responsive and supportive to users who report bugs or problems. My beef is not with MELABS' product. For me, this development system was an investment for small business. I've owned PBP for years, and faithfully upgraded to keep current a number of times.

The second item I would like to point out is that many of us who use PBP also have experience with computer programming for Windows, and the compatibility speech is therefore somewhat unnecessary. There are simple rules of thumb to follow for maximizing compatibility with users' systems during development, and I'm sure I don't need to expand on that because it would be an exercise in redundant information to any experienced programmer. I have personally had this issue on three different computers each with a different CPU and differing video hardware, and I've fiddled and messed with settings ad nauseam so it's not like I haven't tried to do what I can to make things better on my end.

Thirdly, my "calling BS on Mecanique" and hoping for some intervention from MELABS is a last resort after literally YEARS with this known problem being experienced by numerous programmers here, some of whom are quite prolific, well respected in the PBP community, and senior in rank. I have personally posted about this several times, in more than one forum topic on the subject, to no avail, in hopes of getting some help (as have others). The official Mecanique line seems to be "I can't replicate the problem". It is my hope that someone with some leverage steps up to the plate here. The comparison to YouTube implies that I should expect the same level of reliability in a paid product that I use for small business as I get from a free product that I use for entertainment. One might consider such a comparison, to be "anti-useful, and in the same boat as the systematic lack of validation regarding a repeatedly documented problem that continues to be lurking for people who are merely trying to develop products using a MELABS product in concert with a MELABS promoted development tool by others. Again, it's not like I haven't tried here, as have others. If you can sense frustration, then it's for a good reason. But it's taken a long journey to get to this point, which I believe may have either been overlooked, or perhaps it's merely information that you've not been privy to.

I trust this helps to clarify that I recognize the challenges and lines of delineation here. My point is, Mecanique doesn't seem to be actively pursuing any resolve, and in my estimation it doesn't reflect well on MELABS who continue to flog a sister product that they don't support (and that seems poorly supported by the developer, in that this issue has gone unresolved for years with no sign of change, to the point of some people altogether abandoning their paid software for other alternatives). It was my hope that MELABS could step up and try to move things forward, considering the history and the continued lack of viable solution. After all, it would only serve to support and help MELABS customers who are loyal to their product base.

Dave
- 2nd February 2018, 19:22
I'm Sorry but I believe there is something else that is loaded on your machines that is creating the problems. I have used MCS since back when PBP2.6 was around (even before this thread was started) and have used MCPX since PBP3.0 shipped. I now use MCSPX with PBP 3.1 and have NEVER had MCSPX or and previously available version crash. I currently have licenses for and loaded on 1 XP machine 2 Windows 7 machines and 1 Windows 10 machine. Maybe you all should start looking somewhere else for the problem. IMHO...

Ioannis
- 2nd February 2018, 20:38
Does this problem happen also in Windows safe mode?

Ioannis

Dave
- 2nd February 2018, 22:50
I never run Windows in safe mode. No need....

Ioannis
- 3rd February 2018, 13:03
Dave, I was asking picster if had tried to run Windows in Safe Mode and see if the MCS still crashes.

Ioannis

Dave
- 3rd February 2018, 19:02
Sorry for my interruption Ioannis, I thought you were talking to me....

Ioannis
- 3rd February 2018, 19:42
No problem. I should have directed to picster.

Running in Safe Mode is a good way to check if other programs do interfere in the MCS operation.

Ioannis

mpgmike
- 3rd February 2018, 22:06
How do you get Windows 10 to run in Safe Mode? I don't have issues with MCS, but Visual Studio hangs on me. If I run Debug, stop Debug, make changes and try to build & Debug again, 2 files cannot overwrite. I have to shut VS down and start it again to get Debug to work. Maybe Safe Mode would help this.

Ioannis
- 4th February 2018, 12:25
On Win-10 the procedure to enter Safe Mode is different now. Look here for a few ways:

https://www.digitalcitizen.life/4-ways-boot-safe-mode-windows-10

Ioannis

picster
- 5th February 2018, 00:27
Trying now, running it after a "clean boot" process (via msconfig dialog/tabs/checkboxes)... will report back.

picster
- 5th February 2018, 13:22
Trying now, running it after a "clean boot" process (via msconfig dialog/tabs/checkboxes)... will report back.

Nope, still crashes. Same old same old. Trying it in Safe Mode is somewhat pointless seeing as the visual interface will be horrendous, it's not anywhere near usable that way.

Maybe I'll try sandboxing it.

Charlie
- 5th February 2018, 14:11
Nope, still crashes. Same old same old. Trying it in Safe Mode is somewhat pointless seeing as the visual interface will be horrendous, it's not anywhere near usable that way.

Maybe I'll try sandboxing it.
It's not pointless if it helps find the problem. Nobody was suggesting that as a permanent solution. These problems are usually incompatibility with a driver somewhere.

Ioannis
- 5th February 2018, 14:59
OK, safe mode did not help. What Antivirus you have installed? While offline can you disable it?

Ioannis

picster
- 5th February 2018, 15:45
It's not pointless if it helps find the problem. Nobody was suggesting that as a permanent solution. These problems are usually incompatibility with a driver somewhere.

Yes but it's unusable in safe mode. Sometimes it will go a few days or so without crashing. Other times it will crash 3 times in 10 minutes. With the level of tech support provided, if it works in safe mode, the conclusion will only be "use it in safe mode" and I'm not at all willing to do that. Have you SEEN your screen in safe mode lately?

picster
- 5th February 2018, 15:47
OK, safe mode did not help. What Antivirus you have installed? While offline can you disable it?

Ioannis
Microsoft Security Essentials. Already tried disabling it and unfortunately, MCS crashes regardless.

Ioannis
- 5th February 2018, 17:45
Then maybe you can list all your installed programs to check whichis conflicting.

Ioannis

Archangel
- 5th February 2018, 21:42
Hi picster, I wasn't defending anyone only pointing out frustration does not help . . . have you tried running in xp compatible mode? Have you given it admin status? are you managing your paging file or allowing windoze to do it?

picster
- 6th February 2018, 16:31
I have not tried in XP compatible mode, but will try that prior to trying it in a virtual machine. I have tried ADMIN status. Windows is managing my paging file, I have 16G of ram installed, and crashes occur in MCS when I've done a clean boot with very little running. No other apps that I use crash on my system, literally, ever. The error is not a BSOD, it's a program crash error (see below, if I can paste the image properly).

8586

Same happens in each of 3 laptops that I've tried this on, so it's not related to video card (which are different), and one was a pristine machine that I had just restored to factory settings. All are DELL.

Ioannis
- 6th February 2018, 21:30
All are DELL.

This can't be a coincidence.

Maybe a Dell software or driver?

Ioannis

HenrikOlsson
- 6th February 2018, 21:59
I've had MCSP crash on at least two different Machines, none of them DELL so no, that's not the key - either.
It seems that everytime this issue is brought up people have forgot that it's been reported over and over again - for years - by a varity of users. It is NOT an isolated event on a single computer. Many users have experienced the problem - and reported it.

It's clear that there are more people not noticing the issue than there are people who do but that doesn't make it any less "real".

I don't mean to sound negative, it's great that we're throwing ideas up in the air and one day or another we might find the issue and if/when we do we MIGHT get Mecanique to fix it because one thing is clear, as is they don't give a shit.

With that said, I don't think I've had a single crash on my (now not so) new machine running W10.

Ioannis
- 7th February 2018, 09:01
Glad your are crash-free now Henrik.

There must be something in common to all these machines that crash on MCS.

Can you give more details as to what your machines were composed of?

Ioannis

picster
- 7th February 2018, 14:12
Glad your are crash-free now Henrik.

There must be something in common to all these machines that crash on MCS.

Can you give more details as to what your machines were composed of?

Ioannis

Just curious, where does one begin with this? Hardware or software, driver versions, or ? I ask because my "main" laptop is a 2012 model and has served like a loyal horse, and has accumulated lots of software for all purposes over that time - it's not just used for this. Meanwhile, a "too slow" laptop "give it to dad" from one of my kids that I just wiped back to factory has minimal installs, and still exhibits the issue (I tried in a desperate attempt to rid myself of the problem). Obviously that would be an easier place to start, but on an established, somewhat loaded multipurpose system, it's really not viable - maybe the COMMON software/hardware elements with the "bare bones" system would be helpful.

picster
- 7th February 2018, 17:39
Compatibility mode for XP results in a crash as well.
8587

Ioannis
- 7th February 2018, 20:31
The error is the same all the time?

Seems like a problem with memory address.

But on a factory state? My suggestion is to try to find what all machines have in common. A driver, a USB chip, something.

Ioannis

HenrikOlsson
- 7th February 2018, 21:21
If you read this thread (http://support.melabs.com/forum/picbasic-pro-compiler-3-0-and-later/microcode-studio-ide/782-big-bug) on the MELABS forum you'll get some information and background to the problem. I just browsed thru it and see that I apparently had 80 logged crashes during the course of 2 years and that was back in 2014 meaning it's been crashing on me, personally since 2012.

Here's another one (http://www.picbasic.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=17788&highlight=microcode+studio)

So it's me, BigWumpus, Norton, c_moore, picster, Dick Ivers, BrianT and even Darrel across two or three threads. I'm fairly certain others have chimed in as well but again, whenever one does it feels like someone else says "I've never seen it so it must be something with your computer". I know everbody is just trying to help but it's pretty frustrating.

Here's another thread where I've posted some details about the machines I had at the time: http://support.melabs.com/forum/picbasic-pro-compiler-3-0-and-later/microcode-studio-ide/973-microcode-studio-issues

I've said it before but I'll say it again. It may very well be some other software or driver or whatever that is the actual culprit but then MCSP is overly sensitive to whatever is because it's the only spftware that crashes like this.

picster
- 7th February 2018, 21:48
Unfortunately, I just discovered that I cannot try it on a Windows XP machine - virtual or otherwise, since the PIC I'm using requires PBP 3.1 and it is incompatible with XP... so unless I can pick up a cheap W7 laptop somewhere, I'm no further ahead and at somewhat of a dead end. I *can* try it on a machine that I recently upgraded to W10 - although - it previously crashed on that machine running W7.

Picster

Ioannis
- 7th February 2018, 22:12
Of course Mecanique should fix this, but I am trying to see anything in common to all the cases.

If indeed there is a driver, a program or something else that we miss this moment, maybe it will lead to a solution.

Do all crashes (of different users) give the same error message?

Ioannis

pedja089
- 7th February 2018, 22:39
If I may add, to me, problem probably doesn't have anything with hardware, drivers, etc...
A List index out of bauds(0) points to me, that some of list isn't initialized. I don't know how they triggering recognition of keywords, and auto correct etc.
I think that error probably jump out while typing. So it needed to be specific combination, I think someone mention that error is related with typing comments.
I don't know what programing language they use, but simple TRY ... CATCH should do a trick, or in VB on error resume next in every sub routine. That isn't a lot of work, but it can ignore error, or point to line of code where is happening.
Anyway, that I use in my programs to prevent crashes, and when error do happen, user can send me print screen with detailed description in MSGBOX. Saved me lot of times...

Normnet
- 8th February 2018, 00:52
I agree with pedja089. Finding the set of repeatable circumstances which cause the crash would be the most beneficial as it would give the author something to work with in debugging what's probably several thousand lines of code.

Norm

HenrikOlsson
- 8th February 2018, 07:16
Of course, and don't think for a second we haven't tried to but it really does feel totally random. Except for the fact that it has never ever (not for me at least) crashed when just sitting idle, it's ALWAYS been while I have been typing on the keyboard.

The strange thing is that sometimes it could work for Days without a single crash and sometimes it would crash 5 times in 20 minutes.

picster, I don't think it has anything to do with hardware so I'd certainly try it on the W10 machine you have. That would actually be a good test since you know it used to crash on that very same machine under W7, correct?

pedja089
- 8th February 2018, 11:10
So, i was correct. They only need to put one try catch, in subroutine that is called for each key press.
And sooner or later it will show it self with detailed description in MSG box.
I'm 99% sure, that is sometimes expecting next letter or previous to be typed, but it isn't there.
Does anyone notice patter if this happens to specific command or randomly?
It also can be helpful if you notice that it crash while typing in middle of word, or if typing new word.
Eg if you type ADIN, and want to add letter C, in middle of word.
Now we just need source code to correct that :)
EDIT:
I think, for .net application you can actually get line number where error occurred.

picster
- 8th February 2018, 14:38
From my experience, it tends to crash more when typing remarks, but then again, I document to death, so that's probably not relevant. I have seen it crash when typing commands of any kind, and even when NOT typing, which leads me to believe that it's not necessarily driven by user / keyboard / mouse events. From my own Windows programming experience, it is reminiscent of an array dimension error where something is reading or writing outside its defined array space, out of bounds. I agree that an overall error trap with diagnostic codes within the program is something that seems sensible if the author is serious about trying to narrow this down. For Windows to display the error instead, it seems to bypass any useful internal error trapping within the program.

I have never programmed in Delphi, so I'm not familiar with the nuances of arrays, memory allocation, or error trapping, and my thoughts may be off base in that regard.

Picster

Normnet
- 8th February 2018, 23:33
...I have never programmed in Delphi, so I'm not familiar with the nuances of arrays, memory allocation, or error trapping, and my thoughts may be off base in that regard.
Picster
I program with Delphi and access violations can occur (array overrun) for one. I use an add-on called madExcept (http://www.madshi.net/madExceptDescription.htm) as one of my debugging tools. Included in the crash report is usually the offending line number.

Norm

Normnet
- 9th February 2018, 02:22
http://www.picbasic.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8586&d=1517930924

The above error in Delphi is common on freeing an item of which cant be freed as not all items created by user can be simply freed by user.

Norm

keithdoxey
- 10th February 2018, 21:26
Trying to resolve an issue like this is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. I recently got a shiny new i7 laptop at work and installed all the programs I needed to do my job. The software I use for programming Mitel Phone Systems would lose connection to the system after around 1-2 minutes. Tried all the settings in the program, raised a ticket with Mitel Tech Support, disabled Antivirus and Firewall etc but still couldn't get it to stay connected.

Finally I decided to uninstall all the pre-installed HP Bloatware. My Mitel Software now runs perfectly.

I realise this isn't directly related to this thread but it may be worth considering.

Keith

mpgmike
- 11th February 2018, 22:59
If I may add, to me, problem probably doesn't have anything with hardware, drivers, etc...
A List index out of bauds(0) points to me, that some of list isn't initialized. I don't know how they triggering recognition of keywords, and auto correct etc.
I think that error probably jump out while typing. So it needed to be specific combination, I think someone mention that error is related with typing comments.
I don't know what programing language they use, but simple TRY ... CATCH should do a trick, or in VB on error resume next in every sub routine. That isn't a lot of work, but it can ignore error, or point to line of code where is happening.
Anyway, that I use in my programs to prevent crashes, and when error do happen, user can send me print screen with detailed description in MSGBOX. Saved me lot of times...
Do users get access to the program code? Try/Catch isn't something that would be found on the user's end of things.

pedja089
- 11th February 2018, 23:44
No. Just when exception is catch, you can get detailed description about it. You can convert it to string, and then display in msgbox with some custom info. Eg I put name of subroutine, etc...
This is VB .Net code:

Public Class Form1

Private Sub Button1_Click(sender As Object, e As EventArgs) Handles Button1.Click
Dim i As Integer, x As Integer = 1, y As Integer = 0
Try
i = x / y
Catch ex As Exception
MsgBox(ex.ToString, MsgBoxStyle.Critical, "Button1")
End Try
End Sub
End Class
Result when I click on button:
8592

If they add something like this in MCS error should be located.
Then they can just ignore it, or something, but main goal should be that all work is saved, before it crash.
Eg they can just put few lines of code to create backup of all open files, to some location. Or to check on start up is there backup, and to ask user what to do, Restore from it, ignore, or what ever.

Normnet
- 12th February 2018, 00:24
Doesn't your exception notification only occur on a button1 click error meaning the try catch routine would need to be added throughout the possibly thousands of lines of IDE code. Could be done I guess but just saying.

pedja089
- 12th February 2018, 09:14
No, yes, maybe :) It depends...
It needed to be added only to events subroutine. Eg click, keypress, keydown, timer tick, etc... For MCS I think it is just few events for editor box(timer, keypress, keydown, keyup).
If you call any subroutine or function, and error happens in function it will point to that function. So I can usually narrow down to single function. Then I usually menage to recreate that event, or if I can I'll add that error handler to that function, then make new exe, and wait for someone to report error.
I usually put error handler while writing code.
For some non critical stuff(changing txtbox color, formatting, preventing user to enter something wrong, etc) I just put "on error resume next". So it will just go over error, and probably with next char error should be gone, and formatted correctly.

picster
- 12th February 2018, 12:57
Again, note that this is not always driven by user events. I've had mine "go off" when sitting idle... there is no discernable pattern, nor can it be reproduced at will.

Hence an overall "on error" would probably help, just changing the defined popup or diagnostic message here and there within the code.

pedja089
- 12th February 2018, 13:39
If program not doing anything, and error pops up, then problem is in programming language, and framework. That would be very bad situation...
I can put bet that there is some events that are timer based, so if you don't do anything, program can still do it.

picster
- 12th February 2018, 15:59
I agree - timer or something in the background can cause this as well. I've certainly seen a lot MORE program crashes during keypresses, but I have come back after a head-clearing break and found the program with the dreaded error message on the screen. I would assume that timer events happen far less frequently than keypress events, and crashes while typing remarks/comments are most prevalent because they are disproportionately high in "event frequency".

picster
- 20th February 2018, 14:18
I don't want to jinx it, but...

I've been using MCS on a W10 machine (a W7 machine that it would NOT work reliably on previously) and so far I have had no program crashes. Fingers crossed. Bloody hard to type this way.