Home made PCB's

[Smart]

How many of you make your own PCB's?
I'm just about to start using the “Press N Peel” system but I have a few questions that I couldn't seem to get the answers to on the net!

Is the ferric chloride solution reusable or do you have to dispose of it after etching?

How long can you store ferric chloride once you’ve made it?

What's the best & safest way to dispose of ferric chloride?

Thanks

[Archilochus]

Hi Smart,
If you search the Google archives of sci.electronics.basics, sci.electronics.design, sci.electronics.misc etc you'll find a huge amount of info and links on this subject.
Start here:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/sci.electronics.design

Arch

[nimonia]

i do.. i use a heavy panasonic iron.. powder form ferric chloride ... and kodak glossy photo paper and also eagle.. well i tried reusing the acid but it strengh weakens so i'll just dispose of it once used...

and also its cheap here in my place... the powder form are bout 0.75 USD wic could fill a 1.5l coke bottle...

[Ron Marcus]

I have found the press and peel stuff to be very unreliable. I use the Injectorall photo etch system and Eagle PC board drawing software. With the photo etching, I routinely draw 10 thousandth inch lines with 5 thousandths between them. The most important thing is that it is repeatable, and the master print does not get destroyed each time.
As far as ferric chloride is concerned, I reuse it many times. When I go to etch, I heat it up to 125 F. The etching time is around 5 minutes. Use a foam paint brush and lightly brush the board while it is etching. This helps clear the reacted etchant and copper chloride that has formed.
Do not drink it, do not breathe it, do not allow small pets or younger siblings to wallow in it...Blah,blah,blah. It will also destroy most clothing and piss your spouse off if it touches any of their stuff. Remember...Darwin is always looking for a few good morons! <grin>

Ron

[DynamoBen]

I use the same type of setup as you. I use press-n-peel for everything. I have found it very consistent once you figure out the correct iron settings. It takes a little time and a thermometer helps a lot. You can reuse the etching solution several times.
I ended up buying an etching tank from circuitspecialists.com ($30) which makes creating boards a lot easier. It not only heats the etching fluid but also has a pump that produces bubbles (no brushing needed). Finally, allelectronics.com has press-n-peel much cheaper than anywhere else does.

[nimonia]

doing perfectly fidn with press n peel, use a small plastic aquarium with those fish bubble blowing thingy ... might get a proper etching tank soon haha.

[toalan]

I use Staples picture paper (10 bucks for 100 sheets), eagle and ferric chloride. The ferric chloride seems to lose its strength greatly with every use. One of the little tricks I have found it that I usually leave as much copper on the board for grounding as possible so that the etchant does not need to etch more than is needed.

How do you guys heat up your etchant? Can you use a microwave?

I would strongly suggest you guys use staples picture paper because it is so cheap, usually I print out layouts without caution since each sheet is so cheap.

[nimonia]

yeap tths wat i do too. keep gnd as big as possible.. one all the routing doen i would just stretch the whole board for a gnd poligon... saves time to when etching..

[languer]

toalan,

Out of curiosity, do you laser print into the photo paper and later iron-on? or how do you use the photo paper. My personal best is using inkjet into transparency, develop and etch (but lately I have issues with my new inkjet and its ink/transparency adhesion).

[Ron Marcus]

I have used both Ferric Chloride and Sodium Persulfate for etching. The Ferric is very quick, but the Persulfate is gentle and tends to undercut the traces less. My best results have come from Eagle(The best!) with a Laser printer and photo etching using Injectorall boards. I will routinely print .010" width lines with less than .007" spacing. I could never achieve this with iron on personally. As far as the etchant, I will heat Ferric up to 125F in the microwave, in a pyrex dish. I drop the board in, and gently wipe it with a foam paint brush of the desired width. Etching time is around 2-3 minutes for 1 oz copper. Other than fumes and my better half yelling at me for the occasional stain on the microwave handle, I have had no problems. I never heat the solution more than 5 seconds at a time before swirling. I'll put in enough to cover the board + 3/8".

Ron

[DynamoBen]

At $11 a pack the press-n-peel is cheap so I'm sticking with it. (allelectronics.com)

As far as heating, the etching tank I just bought uses a fish tank heater. Works great.

[nimonia]

just a quick tip.. once u have wash with acid and need to remove the leftovers dont use a hard brush or sandpaper.. just use a cloth and thinner.. it works..

[toalan]

With the Staples Picture Paper:

I print on them using a lazer Printer
Then iron onto the copper surface
Then peel off
Then rub off the excess paper under water with my thumb
Then dump it into Ferric Chloride.

With the picture Paper and 600 dpi printer I can usually fit a trace in between the terminals of each IC pin. But I have to be extra careful and make sure that the trace is fully etched, sometimes with tight spaceing I have to use a knife to make an extra crease so that the traces get etched correctly.

I think I am going to get a photo etching system, ironing in the hot summer weather while putting as much pressure on the surface as you can is not something I like to do.

[redman]

Hi
I have been making PCB's for many years using all the old methods. I want now to get better results as the component density of borads as well as the smaller surface mount components, need a better production mode than I have used to date.
I read with interest the modification of inkjet printers to directly print on the copper.

I see advertes for Lexmark waterproof black ink. It seems several Lexmark printers can use this ink. Some of the models are cheap on EBAY.

Has any body used this ink. I know Epson printers have benn used with the durabrite inks. I understand you then have to cure this ink on the pcb before etching.

In the past I have used a Roland plotter with waterproof Steadloer pens. This has worked vrery well. Ferric chloride has no effect on the ink. The only thing was you had to put the board in the ferric chloride soon afterplotting. Leaving the ink to dry for a day would allow the ink to shrink and that lead to lines appearing in the copper.

Has any body got any advice

Thanks
David

[Demon]

If you are looking for an alternate system to toner transfer, check out this group on Yahoo:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/

They are experimenting with using inkjet printers to print the circuit directly onto the PCB. That gives you the added flexibility of printing mask and coloured silkscreen.

Robert
:)

[keithdoxey]

If you are looking for an alternate system to toner transfer, check out this group on Yahoo:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/



Just signed up for that group..... EVENTUALLY.

Is it just me or are those distorted "anti auto sign up" images illegible to other peoples eyes. I study them VERY carefully before deciding what to enter in the box yet it always takes me 3 attempts or more before I get it right :(

[Demon]

Yup, I get 2 out of 3 correct.

Robert
:lol:

[keithdoxey]

Yup, I get 2 out of 3 correct.

Robert
:lol:

Glad its not just me then :)

Just been reading a thread about multilayer PCBs that you contributed to.

Already noticed that there are some obnoxious people on there though :(

Looks like there could be some interesting discussions as well.

[Demon]

Well, you can't do much about obnoxious people, we are everywhere. :D

It's a good group, like any place there are temperaments, that's just a fact of life. I'm just waiting for the moons to align properly so I can finish modifying an inkjet printer for direct PCB drawing. I'm stuck with an extreme case of procrastinotomy right now.

Robert
:)

[Dave]

stevlena, A laserjet printer uses powered toner as a medium that runs thru a fuser to set it. An InkJet uses liquid ink as the medium..

Dave Purola,
N8NTA

[Elnino]

For those that like the iron on method but don't like the iron part of it - Consider getting a laminator!

You have to buy specific ones though, notably ones made by GBC as these are much like a laser printer fuser where the heat is applied to the rollers. Most laminators have heat plates before plain rollers.

I use one sold at Kmart here in aus - costs about $30 and is faaar superior to using a clothes iron.

[sougata]

Hi,

I use the Pulsar toner transfer paper with the GBC laminator. The only problem is for 2.4mm PCB thickness it becomes a pain to get the board through the laminator. I make upto A4 size boards. www.pulsarprofx.com

I got a cheaper alternative toner transfer paper from ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Heat-Toner-Transfer-Paper-for-DIY-PCB-A4-Size-100-Sheet_W0QQitemZ250496172371QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_D efaultDomain_0?hash=item3a52bc4153&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#ht_2405wt_734

They work great and being thinner than the pulsar paper gives smoother rolls through the laminator. The GREEN TRF from pulsar which seals of the toner is an absolute must if you need quality pcbs and thin lines.

[Coco Sapone]

How many of you make your own PCB's?
I'm just about to start using the “Press N Peel” system but I have a few questions that I couldn't seem to get the answers to on the net!

Is the ferric chloride solution reusable or do you have to dispose of it after etching?

How long can you store ferric chloride once you’ve made it?

What's the best & safest way to dispose of ferric chloride?

Thanks

I have a cheaper method, you need a laser printer, photographic paper, an iron and , copper-clad board and a etching liquid (like ferric chloride).

See this link: http://nospecifictopic.blogspot.com/2005/06/how-to-make-pcbs.html

I've made a printed circuit bord that appears in a link
http://sites.google.com/site/telepicdata
See behind the sub link "Rf Remote Controls" where the method is explained. Good luck.